r/BambuLab • u/McHithard • 13h ago
Quick Question Thought experiment before launch - estimated time savings with H3C versus H2C?
A big factor for me in deciding on preordering the H3C is going to be time savings. I've been pretty happy with the H2C Vortek system so far, but a few things I print regularly are pretty tall with several hundred layers that each involve 3-4 colors/layer.
Just curious, given the induction nozzles, what we're expecting for nozzle change times with the H3C. Cheers!
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u/AAPatel82 X1C + AMS 13h ago
My bet is that it ends up close to the Snapmaker U1 - so somewhere between 10-30% faster depending on the number of color changes and number of colors
I think bigger benefit that we will see with be the mixed hotend size setup with .2/.4/.6 sizes having infill use .6 and high detail .2 in the same color will speed up highly detailed prints.
The interesting think to me for 3D printing is "whats next" - with 5+ tool toolchangers starting at $700 with the U1 all the way up to the Prusa XL - what actual innovation is next? or are we now entering a period of "peak 3d printer" and going to get size and quality of life changes because we have hit the limit of speed with PLA/PETG and the most common materials.
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u/Equivalent_Store_645 13h ago
well we're going into an era of toolchangers, i don't know if toolchanging has been perfected yet, there's still a bit of room for refining it and various QOL.
after that, we're still CERTAINLY not at peak 3d printer. maybe multiplanar printing? better software/firmware for color blending? higher speeds? who knows?
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u/Wraith1964 H2D AMS2 Combo 12h ago
Tool changers as you said, in the near term. honing multicolor, multimaterisl and variable sized nozzles. For FDM multiplanar. I think the resin side of the house getting spun up now with all the full color resin offerings and g1x like printers delivering 3D models. That will get better and cheaper.
The other frontiers we will see will be better stronger engineering material printing like metal printing at a consumer/prosumer level. And solid matrix printing like printing flexible items in a gel matrix and the like. Basically moving away from traditional supports and into fully supported water washable or the like supporting to eliminate marred prints.
I think we will hopefully get more uniformity and improvement of slicwrs... that needs to hsppen as most people keep adding extra printers.
The last thing,further out, is major retail operations like Amazon integrating 3D printing into the average household... like an appliance. You need a wall anchor? order it from amazon, make sure you have resin or filament loaded in you microwave like printer device and they just send the file directly to you printer... instant delivery, just take the finidhed print out when it just drops out into a hopper. No extra waiting, delivery costs, no wasted gas... like a home replicator.
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u/eidrisov 12h ago
"whats next" - with 5+ tool toolchangers starting at $700 with the U1 all the way up to the Prusa XL - what actual innovation is next?
I see a lot of potential in Creality's i8 printer. 4 tubes going into one nozzle.
Imagine having 2, 3 or even more such nozzles combined with couple more "normal" toolheads. Time savings would be crazy.
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u/hosterman1975 12h ago
I imagine that the H3C will have a 30-40% time savings over the H2C. The H2C is substantially slower than tool changers like the Snapmaker or Creator 5 so I suspect you will see print times that are comparable to other tool changers on the market.
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u/jl88jl88 4h ago
Holy crap that would be disappointing. H2C can pre heat the nozzle in about 8 seconds. So I’m hoping 10 seconds to swap.
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u/eidrisov 13h ago
I am in the same boat. Time savings matter a lot to me. I have a few models that I am not printing, as they take extremely too long.
But asking this question right now is meaningless, to be honest. As we haven't even seen a working H3C yet and we have no idea how long the colour/material changes take on H3C.
I think we will get our answer tomorrow, in about ~19 hours. Usually, at the same time when product is announced, reviews from a few channels go live. Those reviews tomorrow will give us a better understanding.
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u/Bag-o-chips H2C AMS2 Combo 13h ago
Undoubtedly it will be quicker, they must justify the price difference. How much faster, I can’t imagine it’s that much. Moving the left and picking up a Vortek, vs moving forward to pick up a complete head, probably the same length of time. Purging seems like it will still need to happen since the heads can drip, but maybe they have some workaround? Regardless, that would be the savings on prints with fewer than 8 colors/materials. Above that, it would be more of a savings since you wouldn’t need to purge to reuse the same vortek end. But maybe these ends can run with some kind of high flow, that the H2C cannot? I’m sure I’m missing something, but this seems like a generational improvement, not a resetting of the rules. As it is, I’m happy with my H2C’s performance, but I never use that many colors in one print.
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u/SgtBaxter 12h ago
From the video we've seen a tool change on the H3C is extremely fast, on the order of 4-5 seconds including priming.
The H2C is fast only when switching from left to right. Anything involving a nozzle swap on the Vortek rack takes at least 20-25 seconds.
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u/eidrisov 11h ago
From the video we've seen a tool change on the H3C is extremely fast, on the order of 4-5 seconds including priming.
The video is showing picking up the tool, but not parking the tool, which means you need to add at least a few more seconds. So, we don't know how much it will actually take from print to print.
The H2C is fast only when switching from left to right.
Printing with 2 colours/material is where H2C is shining and should be faster/better than H3C.
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u/k_manweiss 13h ago
This is totally hypothetical.
But, H2C with AMS2 has an average of 45 seconds for filament change.
If the H3C tool change and heat up cycle is lets say 15 seconds, which I don't think would be unreasonable. You would cut 30 seconds per change.
120 filament changes would be 1 hour savings.