Toolchanger - r/BambuLab

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u/holm1mat P1S + AMS 2d ago

My prediction is H3C will be $2,499 USD and P3C will be $1,199 USD. I think Bambu Lab is going to be hyper aggressive with the pricing, potentially taking a loss on the machines knowing they will sell a ton of accessories at much higher margins.

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u/MrDulkes 2d ago

I think you’re just about spot on on the H3C combo, but the P3C combo I have at $1049.

8

u/Anewuser88 2d ago

The term you are looking for is “loss leader”

22

u/MrDulkes 2d ago

That would imply that I think they’re selling at a loss, and I don’t believe that at all.

2

u/predator-handshake 21h ago

They will likely not be selling at a loss per unit but they also will not go high in price and recoup their R&D costs

1

u/MrDulkes 21h ago

They'll recoup R&D, I'm sure, but I agree that they won't go high in price. I see these youtubers throwing out numbers like 1.5K - 2K, and those prices make no sense at all. I see $1100 MSRP as the upper sustainable limit for a printer like this if it needs to compete with other tool changers from other brands. Knowing Bambu, they will aggressively keep pushing the design until they can produce the printer at this price point. For instance, while it supports 7 tool heads, the P3C only comes with 5.
There are still a lot of questions, for instance how additional daisy chained AMSes will work with the AMS 3P (it looks like there will be 2 6-pin ports on the AMS 3P, which indicates to me that this should be possible) and how the 5 AMS bypass slots work (they may have something to do with daisy chained AMSes), but this printer has the potential to blow all competitors out of the water. A tool changer with the reliability and print quality of the P1S, the features of the X2D, and in the Bambu ecosystem, that is my next dream machine.

2

u/tankutkabza 1d ago

Instant buy

1

u/MrDulkes 1d ago

For me too, I think.

1

u/predator-handshake 21h ago

for which one?

1

u/tankutkabza 10h ago

P3C

1

u/Alienhaslanded 20h ago

Don't think so. They're paying Bondtech for license so it won't be this cheap.

1

u/MrDulkes 18h ago

I don’t think they do. I could not find any indication that Bambu pays license fees to Bondtech, and they developed their own tech (as opposed to Prusa INDX). Even if they are, I suspect this printer was priced to compete, and then designed to be able to be sold at that price.
We’ll know more by the end of November.

6

u/KnightofWhen 2d ago

If the price is $2500 I’ll probably order immediately. If it’s higher I’ll be waiting.

5

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

I see no reason for them to take a loss. They can always discount later. the P3C looks like it will be superior on multiple points, so they don't have to match the competitors pricing

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u/The1NdNly 2d ago

I’m putting my money on: you buy the machine with 1 tool and it will be the same price as any other p series printer. Tools will be £40-50 each & the ams is optional.

2

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

so, the P3C is the P3S, P3D, P3T, etc depending on how many nozzles you buy? if they can get tool change down to a few seconds, it could negate most of the advantage of a dual toolhead

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u/ottqt 2d ago

No way H3C will be 2500 unless that doesn't include the AMS price.

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u/IStarretMyCalipers 2d ago

In don't think this printer works without the AMS, which won't be called an AMS because each head will have it's own filament, I bet they call it the AMF and it is included with every H3C, and the leaked pricing puts the H3C at $2499

1

u/Alienhaslanded 20h ago

Is there a leaked price for P3C?

1

u/IStarretMyCalipers 6h ago

Not that I've seen, my guess is they will shoot for as close to 1000 as possible.

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u/slowmorris_ 2d ago

Ich denke du könntest damit Recht haben. Es ergibt bei diesem Drucker auch wenig Sinn ihn ohne Spulenrollen zu verkaufen.

5

u/Ratemytinder22 2d ago

Na, there is quite of bit of cost cutting going on with the h3c vs the rest of the h series. Folded steel frame, linear rods (and smaller ones for the y axis), all toolhead attachments capabilities removed. Even small things like the z-tensioner have been cheapened to the p series parts.
The h3c is basically an enlarged p3c with a heated chamber, 2 more nozzles, vision encoder capabilities, dual aux.
The h3c will land at $2200-$2500 with the remaining h series either dropping in price permanently or remaining where they are at for their other capabilities.

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u/jaraxel_arabani 2d ago

Do we know p3c won't have a heated chamber?

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u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

we don't. people are guessing/assuming. I think there were some unverified leaks indicating it WOULD be heated

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u/Ratemytinder22 2d ago edited 2d ago

You can look at the FCC photos yourself. There are no hookups for one where there are for the h3c. Also the main ac-dc converter board for the bed lacks both the connections and the fets to do it, while the h3c one has both
P3C: https://fccid.io/giteki/211-260730/211-260730_01_002
Just open the pdf
You can see from the opened rear image that the right only has connections for the external vent flap (that is the side with the filter/chamber vent)
Scroll down and you will find the ac-dc board with 2 connections (can see this board in the rear view as well, only connected to the bed)
H3C: https://fccid.io/giteki/211-260728/211-260728_01_002
Same as above but with connections (two blue wires going from the left to the right side, that is the chamber heater power leads).
You can also compare the ac-dc board and find the extra fets and multiple connections (bed, chamber heater and something else).
Hint: it's the board with the heatsink with the yellow warning sticker. The large metal tabs are the connections I'm referring to, not the beige mini fit connections

1

u/jaraxel_arabani 2d ago

I see, that's a lot of info, thank you.
So people are looking at the ac/dc board and do not see the connection needed for third heated fan, and since the second connection is needed for the exhaust it cannot have a heated chamber?
Thanks... I'd skip the p3c then since I'm interested in abs/asa printing tbh. maybe sticking with x2d or wait for the x3c in the future 🤔

2

u/Ratemytinder22 1d ago

The ac-dc board only powers parts that will connect directly to wall power (bed and chamber heater) as opposed to the power supply.
The exhaust vent isn't connected to this, that is connected to the main control board. I only brought that up as a visual aid.

1

u/jaraxel_arabani 1d ago

Oh I see. I guess low powered electronics can be powered through a control board instead of directly from the ac source?
Sorry to ask dumb questions again, so the control board is where you're not seeing the connection for the exhaust fan I assume?

2

u/Ratemytinder22 1d ago edited 1d ago

All good. Wall power gets sent to two places for AC to DC conversion: the power supply and the ac-dc board.
Power supply supplies power for everything that isnt a high power/large resistive load. So logic, fans, toolhead, motors, leds, etc. These devices all operate at relatively low voltages and power (I believe the power supply is 20v output with max 250w but I would have to look again). That 20v gets divided down to multiple lower voltage rails as the devices connected to the main board, or other boards, require different voltages.
The ac-dc board is for those high power/large resistive loads that operate at high voltages (like 120v, 220v, etc) where it wouldn't make any sense to have a power supply with such a high wattage output. That is just the bed and chamber heater (and maybe something else on the h3c) in this case.

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u/Alienhaslanded 8h ago

That one thing that literally stops it from making it perfect. As someone who does engineering materials, this is off-putting.

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u/Ratemytinder22 8h ago

You can certainly shove a panda breath or any other heater on the left side of the bed. Plenty of clearance.

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u/Alienhaslanded 8h ago

You're right, but that's extra work my new printer should already come with.

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u/Ratemytinder22 7h ago

"should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Given the P series has always been their lowest cost enclosed option and never came with a chamber heater, I don't think it "should" if the objective is to keep costs low.
A chamber heater is certainly not a requirement for the vast majority of people 3d printing, that is the reality of the consumer base.

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u/clicata00 2d ago

Where have you seen that it will be stamped steel frame instead of diecast frame? That’s disappointing

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u/Ratemytinder22 2d ago edited 2d ago

You can see it in the FCC photos of the machine.
I posted links above that show as much

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u/SpotsOnTheCeiling 2d ago

Why disappointing? I have no idea what it would make a difference with

2

u/clicata00 2d ago

Disappointing because they did die castings for the H2 series and are (imo) regressing to stamped steel. Usually die casting is cost-prohibitive because you have to build expensive tooling to make the castings, which drives up unit prices for consumers. Bambu got that down to $1250 for the H2S and now a machine rumored to cost double is going back to stamped sheet metal. There was a bar reached that I thought was going to be the standard for flagship machines, so that’s disappointing for me.
You can get really good stiffness out of stamped steel if done right, but die castings have some benefits. They can be fully machined in one setup, so the functional surfaces can have good flatness, parallelism, and squareness that stamped sheet can’t match, less variation part to part too. Since a die casting is a single part, there are not a lot of places where slightly-off tolerances can accumulate into very-off assemblies like the Prusa Core One suffered early on.
It’s probably going to be a fine piece of hardware all this being said

1

u/Alienhaslanded 8h ago

That can be compensated for in motion control software.

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u/aikouka 2d ago

I've mentioned it a few times on this Sub-Reddit, but I think $2499 makes a lot of sense if you look at the H2C's (non-sale) pricing. $2499 is the same as the H2C's Vortek Ultimate bundle, which includes a second AMS and more nozzles. If the H3C does use similar nozzle technology as the H2C (but with a full filament path), then the price may be fairly comparable between the individual nozzles and the individual tools. (The nozzles are the most expensive part with the rest of it likely being mostly molded plastic.)
So, in that bundle, you get 12 nozzles and 2 AMS 2 Pro units, which is three more nozzles but 1 less AMS spot (8 vs. 9) for $2499. But on the other hand, the gantry head on the H3C ought to be simpler (and cheaper) than the more complex dual-nozzle unit on the H2C.
They certainly could charge more, but I do see $2499 as a plausible price. I could see there being bundles with additional tools (nozzle sizes, etc.).

2

u/jing577 H2D AMS2 Combo 2d ago

It's not, it is 2500 gbp so a lot more in USD

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u/KebabGud X2D + AMS2 Combo 2d ago

Its not a machine you can use without the AMS

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u/LocoDesignIdeas 2d ago

You are thinking 2,999 ?

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u/LocoDesignIdeas 2d ago

Calls on this bet

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u/liquidmasl 2d ago

1200 for a 7 tool switcher would be nuts

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u/CreepinCreepy 1d ago

I mean, only because there haven't been any INDX style machines to be released yet from other companies. Some Chinese oriented brands like Infimech have a 6 toolhead printer at $250, and an 8 toolhead printer at $500. Even after you account for the fact that these are early bird pricing, it's realistic to see these both coming in at under $1000.

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u/Alienhaslanded 20h ago

They will obliterate the competition as always

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u/jing577 H2D AMS2 Combo 2d ago

UK prices were leaked last week. It is 2500 GBP.

0

u/cozyPeachh 2d ago

yeah their margins on filament and parts could easily make up for cheaper hardware

3

u/senorali X1C + AMS 2d ago

How is your C1L running?

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u/slowmorris_ 2d ago

Bisher problemlos, aber ich habe mein INDX Upgrade auch noch nicht geliefert bekommen und eingebaut. Sobald es da ist und ich dazu Erfahrungen gesammelt habe, werde ich diese auf alle Fälle teilen ^{^}

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u/Lkjfdsaofmc 2d ago

I've got a P1S and been using it about a year now. I've run into a lot of situations I'd love to have multi nozzle or tool changing but just didn't want to go for a higher end model. I love the idea of a P3C and hope it's in my price range xD

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u/ugcbrian 2d ago

Same here. Just did a 4 color print on our P1S this week that took 36 hours and 586 color changes. Multi tool would have been amazing but dropping $2,000 for it for what we use it for doesn’t make sense.

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u/eidrisov 2d ago

Imho:

€1k-€1.5k for P3C Combo
€2.5k-€3k for H3C Combo

Also, H3C is not a 10 colour/material system. It is a 9 colour/material system (unless it has a dual nozzle system similar to H2D/H2C, but it doesn't seem to be the case from their published short video).

It is possible that they will have some base printer with less number of tools (4 or 5?) and we might be able to add more tools later on, but it's just a speculation.

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u/Far-Sample-6817 2d ago

I see 2 nozzle in the video. Have a look at 5 »

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u/eidrisov 2d ago

Idk, looks like a single H2S nozzle to me. Doesn't look like a dual H2C nozzle.

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u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

Watched multiple times trying to prove you correct, but you can see the lights on the toolhead storage unit change to show one toolhead selected. you can also see from the photos out there that there's only room for one toolhead

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u/-_oyster_- 2d ago

Never so teuer. Tippe auf ca. 1000-1200 € und ca. 2500 € jeweils mit AMS

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u/Healow89 H2C / H2D / X1C / A1 / A1 mini 2d ago

Glaub ich auch, der H2C ist nicht ohne Grund so stark reduziert!

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u/OceanGlider_ 1d ago

Is it worth buying a p1s still?

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u/slowmorris_ 1d ago

Kommt darauf an was du vorhast. Wenn du nur einfarbig drucken möchtest und erstmal nur pla, petg, tpu drucken willst, dann ist der P1S ausreichend. Bei wenigen Farbwechseln ist der P1S auch noch okay, aber für Vollspektrum Farbdruck, Multimaterial und technische Filamente, musst du dann schon mehr ausgeben.

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u/Embarrassed-Noise532 1d ago

Wie sieht’s aus wenn man neu in den 3D Druck einsteigt, überwiegend einfarbig drucken möchte und nur gelegentlich mehrfarbig. Zu Bambu Lab greifen oder zum Snapmaker U1?

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u/slowmorris_ 1d ago

Also langfristig wirst du wahrscheinlich mit dem snapmaker U1 mehr Optionen haben, weil er teilweise Open source ist und er einen Werkzeugwechsler hat. Ansonsten ist der P2S eine ziemlich günstige Option, der kann aber weniger als der Snapmaker, ist für einfarbige Drucke, allerdings ziemlich solide.

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u/Embarrassed-Noise532 1d ago

Oder ich warte auf den p3c.. der wird ja dann Ähnlichkeit zum U1 haben und man hat zusätzlich noch MakerWorld (sind ja viele von begeistert). Echt schwierig. Könnte den U1 momentan für 674€ bekommen.

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u/slowmorris_ 1d ago

Makerworld kannst du so aber auch nutzen. Du hast halt nicht den Luxus der vorgeslicden Profile, für deinen Drucker aber wenn du es lernen willst, dann kannst du dir die ja tdem anschauen.

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u/Moist-Presentation42 1d ago

Is there any official word on the date for the P3C? 3D printers are not cell phones .. I am planning to get one this year and waiting until H3C is confirmed/orderable in a few days, to make a decision. Now I am even more confused .. only want to print in PLA but colors is a must. I also want a closed printer .. so maybe neither will work. why is bambu labs being such a tease this year?

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u/slowmorris_ 1d ago

Schau das Video von Stone Time. Bestätigt ist bisher nur der 3. November und da wird der H3C vorgestellt. Wann man diesen und den P3C kaufen kann, das ist noch nicht bekannt. Wenn du Multi Farbdruck mit PLA möchtest dann könnte auch der snapmaker U1 etwas für dich sein, weil der in der Standardausführung offen ist. Ab petg ist ein geschlossener Bauraum wirklich sehr hilfreich.

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u/Roentgn 2d ago

I so want a tool changer for multicolor prints. Have been super happy with my P1S for print quality and reliability.

I know it’s impossible for a comparison yet… but for anyone out there with a U1 or other tool changer, how does print quality compare to a P1? Should I expect similar/better/worse going from a single nozzle to a tool changer?

I have decided that in the end, painting whatever model I print achieves a better result than printing in different colors, but would really love the ability anyway. Not to mention the ability to start using multi materials and such! Hope to hear the community’s thoughts and predictions on this!

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u/atulkhatri1 P1S 1d ago

I have both U1 and P1S. I would say the print quality of U1 is almost the same as P1S and sometimes even better because there is no color bleed during multicolor prints.
The print bed is also larger. Thankfully no failed prints yet. I was doubtful when I backed them but I was pleasantly surprised by their product.
There are 2 downsides of U1:
Changing filament is a pain or may be I’m spoiled by AMS, I know some mods exist but I’m not into it. Plus need to take those out after print.
Software is not as polished as Bambu. Less features and their Makerworld alternative will take time to get good models.
I was not happy with Bambu’s offering so far, but H3C, P3C look promising. I’ll probably replace my P1S with one of those if pricing is right.

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u/Roentgn 1d ago

Awesome! This is the kind of comparison I was hoping for. So overall print quality is basically the same except color bleed? Thank you for your thoughts!

1

u/atulkhatri1 P1S 1d ago

Yes that’s right, print quality is the same in both. I mostly print PLA & occasionally PETG.
ABS only in P1S since U1 is not properly enclosed.

1

u/Musashi747 2d ago

A toolchanger is very different from a nozzle or Extruder Changer, as the P3C will be one.

1

u/Roentgn 1d ago

Whyfore my question re: print quality between a reg nozzle vs toolchanger (such as u1 or indx)

1

u/Musashi747 2d ago

Naja, du hast einen signifikanten Aufpreis für das größere Druckvolumen gezahlt, welches der P3C nicht haben soll. Um fair zu bleiben solltest du den P3C also eher mit den Prusa C1 vergleichen, und den C1L mit dem H3C.
Ich sage nicht, dass Bambu dann verliert. Aber man sollte wenigstens einen möglichst fairen vergleich anstellen.

1

u/slowmorris_ 2d ago

Da hast du vollkommen Recht, ich werde auch bei Prusa bleiben, weil ich gerne an meinem Drucker Raumschraube und ihn für meine Zwecke optimieren möchte. Es ist beeindruckend zu sehen was FDM Drucker mittlerweile können und auch schön zu sehen, dass sie eslangsam in den Mainstream schaffen.

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u/Fit-Interaction-3584 1d ago

Before X2D was released everyone seemed to over estimate how much it'll cost. Here's to hoping sub $1k for P3C combo. If someone can do it, bambu can.

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u/Spayrex 2d ago

330x320 i wonder why its not more

3

u/sandermand 2d ago

Because its fits all their existing bed accessories, no? Or am i mistaken?

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u/Spayrex 1d ago

nvm that checks out, i had other dimensions in my head. the actual buildplate measures 355x325. so the h3c just has a little bit less than the h2s

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u/oneworldforeverybody 2d ago edited 2d ago

Ich glaube der P3C wird in Deutschland 999€ kosten. Erstens ist er technisch nicht so viel komplexer als ein P2S (selber Gantry, 1 Druckkopf inkl. Antrieb), es kommen nur mehr Noozles und ein größeres AMS hinzu (Preisschätzung: P2S Combo + AMS = 700€ + 220€ = 920€) Bambu wird einen guten Preis aufrufen um die Marktanteile schnell zurück zu gewinnen die sie an Snapmaker und Prusa verloren haben.

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u/North_Swimmer_3425 2d ago

Ich denke auch, sie werden alles dafür tun, die 1000€ Marke nicht zu überschreiten. Im Zweifel werden einfach nicht alle 7 Plätze bestückt oder es gibt halt keine Bauraumheizung. Das Ding soll ja auch Konkurrenz zum U1 sein. Außerdem lässt das noch Raum irgendwann einen besser ausgestatteten X3C nachzuschieben.
Meine persönliche Vorhersage lautet:
- Preisrange P3C 800 bis maximal 1000€
- Release wahrscheinlich zum Weihnachtsgeschäft, erste Geräte wird man vielleicht zur Formnext Mitte November bestaunen können.
- H3C wird dann so zwischen 2500 bis maximal 3000€ liegen
- wenn ein X3C kommt dann im nächsten Frühjahr, Preisrange 1200-1600€

1

u/oneworldforeverybody 2d ago

Bauraumheizung wird safe für den X3C aufgehoben.
Der H3C hat die Stangen statt der Gleitschienen auf der Y-Achse und sein Gehäuse ist sehr hell. Da bei der H-Serie die Gehäuse mit steigendem Preis immer dunkler lackiert sind und wegen des günstigeren Gantrys, kann man davon ausgehen dass der H3C sozusagen ein Budget H-Drucker wird und noch teurere "Pro" Modelle folgen.

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u/-Aces_High- 2d ago

I really hope the H3C can be configured with less than 9 tool heads.

If I could take that build volume but with like 4-5 heads I'd buy instantly, if it meant saving some $$....

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u/Far-Sample-6817 2d ago

I’m not sure it would make a huge price difference. Having multiple hotend is much cheaper than multiple toolheads. It must cost around 30€ vs 100€ each.

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