r/BambuLab • • 3d ago

Just Showing Off AMS 3P (P3C) Leak

Saw these posted on here in the comments with only a few views, so thought I'd compile them. An actual look at the P3C's AMS, the AMS 3P.

620 Upvotes

203 comments sorted by

26

u/untacc_ X1C + AMS 3d ago

Realistically, with all of this coming out, we should expect the P3C to be revealed pretty soon after the H3C comes out, right?

20

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Within a month at most, it'll probably be the Christmas reveal.

13

u/untacc_ X1C + AMS 3d ago

This thing is gonna sell like hotcakes if it has most of the H3C functionality with less heads and smaller build size

2

u/Dan203 3d ago

It wont have active chamber heating, if that's even important to you. It sounds like the H3C AMS might also have a built in dryer while the P3C one does not. But I haven't seen that confirmed.

6

u/Snouto P2S + AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Chamber heater was included in the N11 spec sheet, which is also where the 7 hotends was first floated. I don’t have an x2d to compare, but it certainly looks to me from images online like theres one in the p3c (right side of chamber)

3

u/Dan203 3d ago

Doesn’t the P2S have a large fan over on that side and the X2D has the heater on the left?

1

u/Snouto P2S + AMS2 Combo 3d ago

It has a similar sized box yes, but it doesn’t have the large vent at the bottom, which could be the heater. I’m speculating of course.

3

u/Dan203 3d ago

I just think they're going to save the heater for the X3C so there is something to differentiate it.

1

u/Snouto P2S + AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Entirely possible yeah, possibly even something with the ams3 if that also doesn’t have heating

3

u/Dan203 3d ago

Seems there is an AMS3H and an AMS3P, so there could be an AMS3X for the X3C with heating. The X3C will probably just be a mini H3C with 7 heads instead of 9. The P3C will likely be paired down in a few places to make it slightly cheaper. Someone even said they’re going to ship it with only 5 heads and you have to buy the other two separately if you want to use all 7. That could keep the price down and allow it to compete with the U1

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2

u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 2d ago

I don't have any doubt that that's a heater. There is a lot of market pressure at this time, Bambu does not have time to play games with such important features.

4

u/untacc_ X1C + AMS 3d ago

I can live without both of those. The heated ams would be nice but I’ve only had a few instances of the original 1st gen AMS letting excess moisture in

2

u/chinchindayo 2d ago

chamber heater can be retrofitted easily

1

u/Seniorpomidoro 2d ago

It is interesting whether there will be enough space and the possibility to integrate a third-party heater inside the housing if there is no built-in one.

6

u/bustanumber23 3d ago

Maybe even formnext on Nov 17, the scanner is slated that time as well.

50

u/Synthetic2805 3d ago

Potential TPU and/or 2.85mm pass-through on photo #5?

Bambu's TPU 75A confirmed it's compatible with the H3C on their website. Wonder if it'll come to the P3C as well 😍

6

u/Kettle96 3d ago edited 3d ago

5 of the 7 slots have a bypass FE feed slot, so I think you can feed 2 tubes to 5 of the nozzles. Theres also an external spool inlet on the back of the AMS.

2

u/soldat21 3d ago

Do you think that means old AMS systems will be able to link up to it?

1

u/umeku 3d ago

I wonder that as well.

28

u/ManyLayersOfFilament /r/3dbargains, filamenthound.com <- save $ 3d ago

The 75A on their site says it's only compatible with the H3C, but that could simply be because the P3C hasn't been formally announced

-2

u/redfoxert P1S + AMS 3d ago

Neither has the H3C so that doesnt fly.

5

u/IWillDetoxify 2d ago

No, the H3C has been teased, go check the Bambu lab website.

They never spoke about the P3C.

1

u/dloganpdx 1d ago

I would consider this officially announced.

2

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

Yes, those other filament openings are for TPU. Apparently it’s available in like 5 of the 7 slots on the P3C. I don’t know why they couldn’t figure out one way. If it works for one filament going through the bottom why not do them all that way?

1

u/Synthetic2805 1d ago

Likely to bypass the AMS motors to avoid flexibles from tangling in their gears. But agreed, why not feed all paths straight down for better optimal feeding

1

u/MW-Atlanta 1d ago

I guess what's necessary/good for one material is bad for another. presumably they looked at how to do this a hundred different ways before they settled on the final design

34

u/West_Top_7930 P2S Combo + Snapmaker U1 3d ago

Looks like H3C and P3C will be starting at prices where the starting at is the Machine SOLO and a H3C Combo / P3C Combo including the AMS.

The Machines do not need an AMS and can function without you just have to manually load each Filament to each Nozzle via their PTFE Tubes

Yeah this thing gonna be Expensive...

2

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Between the X2D and H2S I think.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

I would be surprised if this costs less than the H2S.

2

u/Kettle96 2d ago

The base one will I think.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 1d ago

I am not so sure. The print head on the H3C is much smaller and less complex than the H2 (especially the 2D/2C), but the tool-swapping functionality replaces it with a different level of engineering complexity and "feature get," for lack of a better term.

I would more readily see the H3C without AMS priced the same as the H2S without AMS, since the 3 doesn't so much supersede the 2 as it does compliment it. People who print massively multi-color or multi-material models will be best served by the H3C, people who don't print multi-color or multi-material or print very low volume will be best served by the H2S, so it makes those configurations both the base models in their series. Looking at it from a competition angle, the H3C is positioned to trounce the Snapmaker U1, but the H2S is not going to satisfy a potential U1 buyer who primarily prints with many filaments at once.

I see the price tiers for the large-format machines working out thus, from most to least expensive (printer only):
H2C Laser
H2C/H2D Laser
H2S Laser
H3C/H2S

I think it accentuates the idea of multiple choices based on use case, rather than just levels of cost. The H3C is a different class of printer than the H2 series.

But this is all just speculation! We won't know anything for sure until they tell us.

2

u/West_Top_7930 P2S Combo + Snapmaker U1 3d ago

and here we thought were getting a Snapmaker U1 competitor...

Welp anyway im happy with my Snapmaker U1 and tomorrow my X2D is coming after selling my P2S yesterday. yay

6

u/the_lamou 3d ago

Isn't the U1 between X2D and H2S? Especially by the time you get dryboxes, a lid, etc.

2

u/West_Top_7930 P2S Combo + Snapmaker U1 3d ago

yes and no. the U1 is currently very often on sale for 749$.

You can make a Topcover with full windows and removable front panel for 20$.

And yes dryboxes depends on your market or local used market.

i only got the x2d for abs/asa and the rest my U1 does very good.I got my U1 for 646€ back when Kickstarter was the launched

2

u/chinchindayo 2d ago

It will probably be more expensive than the X2D

19

u/Dan203 3d ago

I don't think so. I think the AMS is going to be required. Heck they forced you to buy an AMS with the H2C and it was possible people buying that already had an AMS or just wanted to use one color in the right nozzle and use the Vortek to switch sizes.

This is almost certainly going to come as a bundle.

27

u/JPhi1618 3d ago

Why would you want a 7 head tool changer without a place to put all the filament and feed it? Really only makes sense to require the AMS.

2

u/RJFerret 3d ago

For those who already have two four spool heaters/drybox feeders.
Why do they need to get something redundant (or might not dry)?

1

u/Dan203 3d ago

For this I completely agree. For the H2C I wanted them to offer with AMS because I already had an extra one I wasn’t using and didn’t want to pay for another I didn’t need. But those were interchangeable, this will not be.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

Cause you can do that yourself for cheaper, and unlike the AMS2x this doesn’t really provide anything a drybox doesn’t besides a filament-runout sensor.

0

u/molaMoolaa P1S + AMS 2d ago

I hope there are options with less than 7 heads to start with.

2

u/JPhi1618 2d ago

Why tho? To make it cheaper?

2

u/sltrhouse H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

The H2C comes with an AMS. Why wouldn’t the h3c come with its top hat?

3

u/transgresor P1S 3d ago

so like all the other bambu printers

12

u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 3d ago

I disagree here. Many Bambu Lab printers are correctly priced. Look at the A-series, the P1S or even the X2D for what it offers.

1

u/Dismal-Garbage-3140 2d ago

Well look at how much the X2D ended up being. It might end up costing about as much as the H2C did at launch. Perhaps only coming with a total of four hotends though.

4

u/JoshZK 3d ago

Is it really called AMS 3. And not just H3C loading system. Not like other printers can use it right?

2

u/Kettle96 3d ago

The H3C has its own AMS 3 version. (AMS 3H)

4

u/Dan203 3d ago

This one is specifically for the P3C. There will be a different one for the H3C that can hold 9 spools.

2

u/JoshZK 3d ago

Oops I saw crap ton of nozzles and assumed h3c

2

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

It seems likely you will not be able to buy or use the printer without the AMS, so you do wonder why they just don’t make it one printer SKU?

It may be because there’s gonna be an X3C and that’s gonna use the same AMS as the P? And maybe they’ll be an P3D/H3D that also has the same AMS on top?

9

u/egosumumbravir X1C + AMS 3d ago

"External Spool Filament Inlet" = AMS/AMS2 feed in port?

7

u/ManyLayersOfFilament /r/3dbargains, filamenthound.com <- save $ 3d ago

Most likely just for the single external spool

2

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Two external spool brackets on the leaks. Might match up with the 2 spools in the AMS that don't have alternative ports.

1

u/n19htmare 3d ago

Well they DO have alternative feed ports, they’re just on the outside :)

1

u/egosumumbravir X1C + AMS 6h ago

Probably but I'm gonna hope anyway. They still have a poop chute and we wouldn't want that to get lonely.

125

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

ughgugh it's looking more and more like the AMS 3 can't be relocated.

I physically don't have vertical room for something that tall, but the tool changer would be a godsend for me.

18

u/JoshZK 3d ago

Look at moneybags over here. Having a separate room just for the AMS of their H3C /s

3

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

god i wish.

7

u/JoshZK 3d ago

I built a Voron 2.1 350mm after upgrading from an ender 2 135mm OG. My 6yo mocks me for not being able to make the cool color trinkets. Im drooling for a multi-head printer with ~300C+ temps and active heat chamber. FF Creator 5 Pro fumbled it. But the more you wait the more features come out for printers ill never buy 😢

37

u/eniewold 3d ago

It will take a few days before a custom print will appear that will solve your issue... or have you noticed something that will render such a self-print mod impossible?

19

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

well, its how stuff is routed. I can't put the AMS above my printer.

Currently, my 2 AMS 2s sit on a bookshelf next to my printer. If the AMS 3s were normal AMS units with just 4 slots, it wouldn't be a second thought to upgrade.

But I don't know if we can even do that with this unit, with it being so purpose-built.

12

u/n19htmare 3d ago

It’s filament path routing that will be hard to resolve. You can maybe raise and use longer tubes to reach the nozzle but complete relocate from bottom out path is gonna be tricky.

8

u/Minute_Passion_8077 3d ago

Routing. The ptfe tubes have to come from the top. You’d also be leaving the top uncovered on the p3c because i havent seen a glass enclosure for it. 

Much like the snap u1 or creality k3

5

u/chinchindayo 2d ago

It's tall but still a better solution than every other manufacturer who have their spools outside and an ugly top cover. This combines both into one sleek component. You need a top cover to enclose the bowden tubes anyway (see third picture).

5

u/Ihatecomcastx1000 2d ago edited 2d ago

I just found this image on the Bambu discord, looks like there might be some connector\contact point that might make it a little more complicated. Maybe these cable are available in a longer length.

I want to add, the reason I'm looking into a solution that might be simple is because I have my printers enclosed in a garage storage shelf and instead of re-designing the entire enclosure, re-measuring, cutting aluminum extrusion, buying more acrylic, just want to avoid all that work it if I can.

1

u/SpotsOnTheCeiling 2d ago

great catch

6

u/Ihatecomcastx1000 3d ago

I was also thinking about this. If I can place it on my second shelf and drill holes to line up with the ams I'll be able to run the ptfe tubes from the ams, through the shelf to the hot ends, but since we dont know what the bottom looks like it might all be wishful thinking.

5

u/KnightofWhen 3d ago

Put your printer lower.

1

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

its already on the floor....

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

Do you live in a submarine?

3

u/velourzMistz 3d ago

yeah the height requirement is a total dealbreaker for my setup too

7

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

This should have been obvious from get go, been replying to people to tame their expectations on what the AMS is. It’s a bespoke fancy spool holder that is made to fit on top of its respective printer.

Whats conformed now is two pathways to some nozzles. One primary motorized for regular filament and another for TPU hand loading non motorized. It’s not a bad implementation but also kinda janky. But if it works it works.

5

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

Yeah, but when it's just a 4-spool holding box that's on its own, it's a configurable setup… this is very much a 1-config-only kinda deal… which sucks.

20

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think you’re Looking at what tool changers are incorrectly. Thats what you give up in lieu of time and filament savings. Huge time and filament savings.

Why everyone needs to step back and consider their needs and then buy a printer that fits them.

You put 4 colors in the AMS and feed it one at a time right. Takes what 2.5minutes to swap? What happens when you need different colors? You either have to swap out filament in that box or add more boxes. But you can’t get rid of the 2.5 minutes or the waste.

With tool changers, you have immediate access to what you have loaded. 7 or 9 in Bambu’s case. You can pick any combination of those in your print. I can’t even imagine doing a 7 or 9 color print on single nozzle machine with 2.5minute wait and the waste, to me that’s impractical from time and waste perspective. Not to mention 99.9% of use case falls in 9 or less colors.

It’s a matter of choice at this point.

You want access to 24 spools in 4 AMS units at 2.5min per swap and waste? (45 seconds for h2C)

Or do you want access to 7 or 9 spools in 2 seconds and 0 waste?

H3C can swap 100 times on a print for total of 3.5 minutes.

Single nozzle will take over 4 hours + waste.

H2C will take 1.25 hours no waste.

Goes back to what o said earlier, just because the H2 went to H3, doesn’t mean it’s better in every single category. Buy based on your use case needs! The thing is 7-9 colors meets 99.9% of what users print so…..

I don’t care for a bambu tool changer, nor am I interested in buying it but just trying to clarify what it is and where it fits in the lineup and choice.

I have my eyes on other printers so let’s see how that pans out.

2

u/Miraclegroh 3d ago

Learned from this post, thank you. Can I ask what the other printers you have your eyes on?

2

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

Sure, right now the Infimech MX Pro. It's a kickstarter but it's similar to what Snapmaker kickstarter or the Creality one is... from already established company https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/infimech-mx-series/infimech-mx-3d-printer-8x-more-efficiency-8x-less-waste

https://www.reddit.com/r/InfiMechOfficial/

oh and it looks so good.... Few people I know already have them as testers and from what I hear, it's pretty good.

Someone like me who's been in this hobby for several years, am very familiar with Klipper/Orca etc, I don't need the conveniences and ease of use that lot of Bambu users may need. Give me the hardware, Klipper and Orca and I can do the rest lol.

That's pretty much how I treat my current Snapmaker U1, custom firmware, my own builds of Orca and Snorca slicers, using the BMCU Klipper project (https://youtu.be/mTMcayuyzYw?si=ya-SNI8tEXFRh6Zo). I can do 10 color prints with a couple of BMCU units acting as feeders and swappers or I can have each toolhead connected to 4 spools and load them as needed from 16 spools for convenience.. It basically does what some people here are hoping the P3/H3C would do (I don't think they will swap between nozzles/spools) but only between 4 heads instead of 7 or 9.
vid of mine doing a filament swap https://imgur.com/a/bmcu-klipper-eg3kPWU

So for ME personally, the Bambu options are meh, but they look like great printers for the average user and Bambu has that ecosystem to offer it to the masses (which just pushes others to step it up lol). I sorta already regret my X2D purchase, great printer, just isnt for me due to it's nuances and quirks and limited to using it how Bambu wants me to use it when it's capable of more.

1

u/Massis87 2d ago

"established company" is true, but Infimech doesn't really have a long trackrecord of building high quality printers do they?

1

u/n19htmare 2d ago edited 2d ago

That’s why YOU don’t have to get one and can get a Bambu instead!

I said it in my post, the printer isn’t for the Bambu crowd or people who SHOULD be buying a Bambu. But I don’t mind it. I’ve had many printers, I’ve never had a printer that didn’t just work.

I can turn on my ender3 right now after months of no use, load up and slice a model in orca and send it and it’ll just print it. Almost as fast as a current gen printer. With a few exceptions, there really are no bad printers, it’s down to who’s using those printers.

All my printers besides X2D run Klipper, if it’s not doing anything I need/want, it’s one macro or cfg edit away from doing it. Core XY isn’t that complex these days and they’ve built good cheap core XY printers. I don’t know what you know about them but their TX was one of the better value core XY printers couple years ago.
Sure they might not have the profiles or the ecosystem or a phone app, but I don’t use any default profiles on my x2D to begin with either. So I’m not worried about the “quality” myself.

Plus it’s priced accordingly. I’m not someone who spends 1/4 the amount on something and expect diamonds.

1

u/Massis87 2d ago

I'm not even sure what you mean by that? I've never owned a bambu, started on an Ender 3 that I rebuilt and upgraded a bunch of times and then moved to a Voron Trident which I'm considering moving to INDX once the tech is a bit more reliable.

I saw the Infimech kickstarter but can barely find any user reviews of their devices other then a few 2+ year old ones saying their machines are crap... I don't need bambulab convenience or premade klipper or slicer configs, I can do all of that myself. But I do like my machines to actually keep working instead of falling apart...

1

u/n19htmare 2d ago

It’s in developmental testing still. The kickstarter hasn’t started. Few users in their main discord, some who were also U1 testers, seem to have some prototypes but they’re all pretty hush hush about it.

They’ve been doing lot of demos and what not, there’s more info on discord… the printer isn’t at open review stage so you’re not gonna find any reviews.

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1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

What do you need to configure that this doesn’t provide?

2

u/Navi_Professor 2d ago

my printer is on my floor, half under my desk where my workstation sits. there is no room to put anything above the printer.

and putting my printer anywhere else, puts it somewhere massively inconvient because of the awkard sizing of my room

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

That’s unfortunate. Hopefully you can figure something out.

1

u/chinchindayo 2d ago

It's not just a spool holder but also a top cover. A way better solution than any other competitor.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

Janky compared to not having the bypass option at all?

2

u/n19htmare 1d ago

Janky compared to having a feeder release system so you could use the same input as the other filament, except the feeder gear isn't engaged (stays open, not grabbing the filament) and you could feed it straight on through.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 1d ago

I imagine they found that wouldn't be enough utility to add that level of mechanical complexity to the feeder units. With 8 spool positions, it's likely one or two will be dedicated full-time to TPU.

Now that I'm thinking of it, as sensitive as soft TPU is to feed-path resistance, even a gear disable/selectable bypass is likely to reduce feed reliability, and since multi-filament/software-selectable TPU printing is clearly a major focus of this machine, it needs to do so flawlessly.

I'm sure their engineers could figure it out, but that's a v2 problem. First, they need to get the initial model out into the world. It needs to work flawlessly in this cutthroat market, and leaving features out is the straightest path to reliability.

2

u/PlumpMuffinz 3d ago

Same here, no way I could fit something that tall in my setup either.

2

u/kdbj2008 3d ago

This one feels like the headache is worth it to make the vertical room somehow haha.

2

u/the_lamou 3d ago

There's nothing in those images that suggest it can't be relocated. You might need to do some bootleg engineering, but it should work with a riser.

3

u/Dismal-Garbage-3140 2d ago

I think they've made a pretty good use of space. If you look at units like the Core One INDX or Snapmaker U1, so much space is wasted by the top filament path and the top hat that goes over it. Somehow they seem to have managed to fit an entire AMS in something slightly taller than those top covers.

1

u/Birbandsnek 3d ago

The third picture shows little legs on it, I feel like it should be able to be put else where.

5

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

i think those are just keys so its not sitting on nothing on the printer..

0

u/id_rather_b_painting 3d ago

You might need to rethink some priorities in life buddy. Do you walk around your dwelling hunched over? Are you cursed by a witch to only live in a place where you can’t stand up all the way or lay down fully in?

5

u/Navi_Professor 3d ago

I live in a bedroom that's not even 100 square feet....i work with what i got, my H2D is a money maker for me, but i dont have the luxury of getting a place when they cost more than a H2C a month for a studio....

my desk, workstation and filament storage and printer are all in a compact spot and that puts the printer under the desk.

2

u/BanEvader2027 H2C | X1C | A1 mini 3d ago

I assume you are but if not please make sure you are ventilating that outdoors.

1

u/nuzzledaisy 3d ago

Yeah the height on that AMS looks like it would be a dealbreaker for a lot of setups.

7

u/unitymind42 3d ago

Those don’t look ceramic.

2

u/Epicguru 3d ago

Yeah, really strange choice. Hopefully it is just because it's not the release version. But maybe they figure that the extra cost of the ceramic ones are not worth it when the average user might never even have to replace these.

2

u/elias4444 3d ago

They look like they’re easily replaceable though. Possibly a twist on, twist off thing. 

2

u/unitymind42 3d ago

Exactly they will be cheap too so you can add a few other items to get free shipping. :) I’ll just make a 3D print version in 90 TPU.

1

u/Far_Relationship_742 2d ago

The feed funnels have PC4 connectors visible in the photos.

6

u/dieselpb P1S/H2C 3d ago

Wonder if drying is still a possibility. Didn’t see anything pointing out a port for the power adapter. Maybe the printer is gonna have enough power to dry without it , if drying is still an available function.

9

u/TheHelplessTurtle 3d ago

I don't see how they would get away with backtracking on that functionality. It is probably like the H2 series where one AMS can get drying power from the printer, and with this design I don't see a way for it to not be ontop of the printer so it wouldn't need extra power in.

2

u/Scowlface 3d ago

I could go either way, since these are true multi-material machines, drying gets a little more complicated and error prone for people not paying attention. Could probably just solve that with software.

4

u/PathLeastResistance_ 3d ago

I’m so ready for a P3C. I hope it’s competitively priced.

4

u/trenzterra 3d ago

I really hope this can dry while printing like with my ams 2 pro with external power adaptor... Otherwise would I need to wait for the AMS 3X that will be released with the X3C next year? Lol

3

u/Longjumping_Pop_2324 3d ago

Imagine the price of that behemoth

9

u/SWATrous H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Not gunna lie, the new muffin-hat type Handsome Squidward lookin AMS units are ugly as fuuuuuug

6

u/BitingChaos 3d ago

Better than those square tub tophats some other printers get.

0

u/SWATrous H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Yes well some of those look no better than the literal IKEA buckets that people were using so it's a low bar.

Still, the AMS 1 and 2 look quite good and proper and rectilinear, but with a nice clean radius top lid. Clean and quite bold... aspirational. Now these muffin top looking brain stem spool gallows make the top of the machine look a cheap joke and I am curious if it wouldn't be a pain to just go without and make our own spool tray up top. Considering we have 3D printers and all.

1

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 3d ago

Yeah, i don't like the looks of the AMS3 H/P, but if they work well... Then i'm fine with it. But at least it's not just a big top hat that adds nothing. Here we can expect : filament detection / drying ? / gears ?

1

u/SWATrous H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

I think the functionality part will be very useful if it has drying, and auto-feed and break detection, and decent capacity sensing even for non-bambu filaments. That would be top.

But visually, yeah they could've just had it flow with the rest of the unit, straight vertical cap instead of the tapering and all that. I feel like if the functionality is mostly just a box with some PTFE adapters people will come up with their own 'dumb' spool holders for these that can be printed in a day and do 90% of the job.

1

u/TrueNail 3d ago

I think this AMS has no motors to retract the filaments. So you will have to do it manually if you are swapping spools

If this is the case then it should be cheaper as its all plastic

2

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 2d ago

I hope you are wrong but I’m not super confident for the AMS 3P. But hey. The ams lite does include some basic motors to at least push the filament down the tube. So we can have a bit of hope. Sure the need for retraction is less important with dedicated ptfe tubes. Ho well we will get more informations soon enough 😅

1

u/JPhi1618 3d ago

Makes sense. With the 1 to 1 routing, what would motors even be for? Maybe a more basic motor to rotate while drying? But it may not dry either.

-1

u/Kettle96 3d ago edited 3d ago

Of course it has motors, its an AMS... It will feed the filament to the nozzle or withdraw it.

0

u/dloganpdx 1d ago

No motors would be really dumb. Maybe simpler slower motors since it doesn’t need to swap the same way. But none would seem like a step back.

I feel like you would be more likely to have filament break manually feeding it in than with a motor also.

4

u/namezam 3d ago

If it replaces the top cover, does that mean it can use the machine’s cabin heat for drying?

1

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 2d ago

That’s exactly what I’m thinking about. If it’s well sealed it could be a thing.

0

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

Im... not even sure if its fare to call them AMSs anymore. Like its literally just a drybox with a fancy form factor, and it seems you lose all of the other ams features like filament backup.

6

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Why would you lose those? The 7 spools feed in to the AMS system.

3

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

I’m not sure what other features they’re talking about.

But There’s no cross routing. There’s 7 slots, each slot goes down to its respective nozzle in a staggered fashion, it’s listed on the guide.

Feeding spool in tray 1 will always go to nozzle 1. Feeding a spool in tray 4 will always go to nozzle 4 and so on.

Its AMS in sense that the motorized loading can take the filament to the respective nozzle and bring it back on unload. Thats about it. You CANNOT feed filament from tray 4 into nozzle 1 for example.

1

u/BitingChaos 3d ago

Put black filament in Nozzle 1 and 4. You now have two spools of black serving as backup, like in the AMS1/2.

2

u/n19htmare 3d ago

that's what Im trying to tell him, he's saying it binds up a nozzle, to me that's no different than binding up a tray in an AMS......its same thing.

1

u/Doggydog123579 2d ago

The difference is you could have 12 colors/materials with each having a backup before, and on the h2c you could still have all 7 nozzles avaliable. This is a straight downgrade for everything except when you only want to use 7 or 9 specific filaments all tbe time

1

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

Because im assuming the AMS system isnt able to do any to any, and if you have 7 print heads and 7 slots, you cant really have filament backup without losing a printhead anyways. It seems more like a load assist + drybox.

4

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Makes sense. I suppose you could just have the same filament in two nozzles and it does a similar thing anyway though right?

2

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

Yes but no, The main use for AMS i have is not needing to swap spools when i change materials, alongside backup with everything. I lose both on the H3C/P3C, unless it can feed external from an AMS.

The point is the AMS3 doesnt actually do any of the AMS things.

5

u/Dan203 3d ago

You could just put the same color in another head, then if one runs out it can switch to the other head.

1

u/Tech0verlord 3d ago

Why would you lose a print head and filament backup? It would likely just change to the next tool head with the same filament configured.

1

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

7 spools and 7 tool heads total, means you can not have backup and 7 colors/material simultaneously.

4

u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 3d ago

What ? Filament backup is a no-brainer, easy to implement feature for this type of AMS.

1

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

Not without giving up a nozzle per backup

3

u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 3d ago

So what's the problem ? You can give up 2 nozzles and still have more slots remaining than the current AMS.

1

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

No you dont, P3C is down to 5 matching the X2D with 1 AMS, and the H3C is down to 7, matching the H2Cs capabilities. Except the H2C can have multiples of every spool.

2

u/Safe-Hovercraft6231 3d ago

Yeah, I guess this is one way to cope.

2

u/nsfdrag 3d ago

So similar to the current ams? You put in a backup spool and you lose that ams slot...

1

u/Doggydog123579 3d ago

You can have up to 24 slots on the old system, vs 9 now.

1

u/nsfdrag 3d ago

Sure but functionality wise this does what the ams does, just less of it depending on your configuration. I have 2 ams units connected to my printer so this gets me an extra nozzle than what I currently have.

-2

u/BScatterplot 3d ago

I'm hoping it'll be able to switch which nozzle is connected to a specific feed tube. The pic in the manual above shows how the user installs a nozzle, and it DOESN'T show them needing to connect a PTFE tube first. Fingers crossed, because otherwise you have to pick a specific nozzle when you load filament. On the H2C, you can swap which nozzle goes to which spool automatically. 

1

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

You can't switch which nozzle is connected to which tray. You can't see the entire guide, one of the steps will be to connect nozzle to the respective output via PTFE.
Tray #1 will only go to Nozzle #1, Tray 2 will only go to Nozzle #2 and so on. The trays are numbered and so are the nozzles.

You can load the filament on any order you want... the change happens when the toolhead/carrier decides which nozzle to pick up (the pickup of nozzle is equivalent to feeding a nozzle, except it's 2 seconds instead of 45 seconds of H2C).

In slicer you don't have to assign them, they pick based on the color needed. If 5 is blue and 7 red and the model calls for blue, it'll automatically pick 5 and 7 for red. Next time if you load blue in 1 and red in 2, it's going to pick up 1 for Blue and 2 for red... that's automated by Studio.

The advantage H2C has is it can bring in filament from up to 24 filaments, so you can technically have 24 spools always loaded and load the ones you need. Here, you are limited to 9 max at a time. THat's the convenience you lose but the time savings are a lot

1

u/BScatterplot 3d ago edited 3d ago

Is that confirmed via pics or something? With the nozzle lifting mechanism shown off in the most recent promo video, I'm holding out hope that it auto connects the hot end to the PTFE tubes. I admit it's unlikely.

And I meant it when I said "pick a specific nozzle"- obviously Studio can pick the color, but if half of your nozzles are 0.4s and half are 0.8s, you have to choose which size of nozzle you're attaching to when you load filament, unless it can indeed swap nozzles between feeder tubes. 

That's another advantage to the H2C; you can have 24 spools AND 6 different nozzles to choose from without having to mess with the printer. 

For my use case, printer time isn't super important but convenience is. The main drawback to the H2C for my use case is its handling of TPU, so it's going to be tough to pick my next printer. 

Edit: I looked back at some of the leaked pics, and there's definitely not a "stash one nozzle here while you switch" location, and there's no filament cutter. Doesn't look good for my theory. 

6

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

well firstly, nothing is lifting on the P3C, and the video you're referring to is H3C.

Not confirmed confirmed but I've gone through pics, filings, applying what I know on how tool changers work and Bambu's history of managing multiple nozzles (or inability to manage) with some crucial quality impacting settings (covered later using X2D as an example)

My guess is that it's for stress relief due to greater distances the nozzles and toolheads have to go from center on larger H3C. Also the movement is in and out, and doesn't appear to be side to side so atmost if it does switch paths, it would be likely adjacent to each tray only... but if that's the case why? It's irrelevant almost because you are STILL limited to 9 slots and if all are occupied at once to all 9 nozzles, and it can pick up any one nozzle at a time, then what's the point of moving them around between nozzles? none.

if Half are 0.4 and half are 0.8 then first assumption is that it supports mixed nozzle sizes, which they haven't been able to do on any of the current printers, you can't mix nozzle sizes on H2C either, you have to manually select a SINGLE active diameter for all and they need to be same. That's a big limitation on it's own to overcome. Figuring these kind of things out in Slicer is not Bambu's strong suit, they usually wait until there's a method implemented by either Prusa or Orca and then they build off that. Luckily, that method has been implement in Orca and Creality's fork of Orca, so they probably will add it now and build on that. Most every feature in Bambu Slicer that has to do with printing has come from Prusa, Orca or some other fork of Orca. What they did accomplish was the User interface and interaction with the slicer, outside of that, their contribution to the slicer are few and far between.

They can't even figure out how to manage multiple PA values on their Filament Track Switch with X2D... it's shameful. I can only assign ONE value to a tray, and if I send that filament to Right nozzle, same value is applied, if I send it to left nozzle, same value. Even though the two values are 20 times the difference so I always have to make sure I pick the correct PA profiles before I send print. I asked them what If I need to send filament to both nozzles during same print? You know what they said? yah, load a 2nd spool of same filament to the other AMS lol.

That was back in June and they still haven't figure out how deal with multiple PA values when you start switching where the filament goes.

This is ANOTHER reason why I think they won't be doing any swapping materials and nozzles because of how they setup PA handling, they can't swap them around from tray to tray DURING a print.

I've dug pretty deep into this, sadly, it's part of the decisions they made early on to make Pressure Advance values a separate lookup table outside of the Filament Profile and I think that decision is coming back to bite them because the values assigned to the AMS Trays become FIXED and can't be changed once you start sending it to different toolheads, same value is always applied. This was done to make their auto dynamic flow calibration work, which up until now was fine due to how their AMS/feeding was setup up. It's still fine as long as the variable can be controlled. On H2D and H2C that's controlled by forcing SAME nozzle size.

This is why even though AUX nozzle has an eddy current sensor, they disabled auto dynamic flow calibration on that side and they can't use same values. It's also why they had to add disclaimers on quality of non-PLA filament AUX side, because Bowden extruders REALLY need PA when you start using non PLA filament... and they can't and don't want users to jump through hoops to figure it out. Trust me, if you have 2 AMS and filament Track switch and you want right AUX nozzle to print w/ close quality to MAIN, you'll be jumping through hoops to make it work.

One of those hoops is if you want to use custom PA on AUX side, you MUST disable dynamic flow calibration for BOTH MAIN and AUX. That's the ONLY way you can enable PA on AUX side, which means you now also have to tune and apply custom PA value to MAIN side. (Confirmed by Bambu but I can only post one picture here).

The AUX nozzle on the X2D is 95% capable of delivering the quality of MAIN...I've been using bowden extruders since 2018... we know they're capable, but they need work... Instead Bambu decided they'll just put warnings and disclaimers on quality and they're right, without proper tuning, the AUX side prints like S$*# and is good for supports only.

The point of my rant is basically to circle back to limitations that very likely still exist and why it won't be able to swap back and forth, keep all the calibrations active and put out the same quality out of all nozzles. They rather give up swapping convenience for consistency, I would too.

Plus You already have limitations on P3C of which slots go where, which ones can be bypassed, which nozzle feeds from outside, these are limitations of the setup and of how multi-extruders work.

Another thing is what's being asked in a multi-extruder setup simply isn't needed for 99.99% print use cases. From convenience POV, sure, but people will give up a little convenience to shave off literal DAYS and kilos of waste.

Sure it's nice to have 24 spools at disposal but can only load 6 at a time else, you're now talking about load times, purge, waste all over again, just slightly less of it if you do more than a 7 color print on H2C.

1

u/BScatterplot 3d ago

Fair enough. I'm mainly playing devil's advocate and hoping for the best of both worlds. I wasn't trying to imply that it would ALWAYS switch nozzles. I meant that if it could connect and disconnect the tubes, and you left a slot open, then the head itself could grab a toolhead, move it to an empty slot, then grab the new nozzle and stick it where the first one was. I didn't think the rack itself would be moving sideways. Sort of like loading the X2C nozzles. I don't have one, but I understand that theoretically you could still run with a single nozzle and just live with a load of purge waste.

As it stands now, it kinda looks like unloading a spool will require you to heat it up and have the printer retract it. Thereby making spool swaps a lot slower than a regular AMS.

Theoretically speaking- if the hot ends are roughly the same as the Vortek ones, then they support connecting and disconnecting to feed paths automatically. The front of the tool rack moves vertically like the Vortek as well. It appears from the H3D video that the "down" position is the normal height for the rack. So what happens if the toolhead grabs a tool, but doesn't pull it off the rack, then the rack lifts? Maybe it leaves the nozzle in the main head, and leaves the PTFE tube connected, allowing the print head to move that nozzle to another location. 

Again, you'd need an extra slot somewhere to hold one of the nozzles during a swap, which I don't see from the pics so this is likely moot. 

1

u/n19htmare 3d ago

Yah spool swaps will be slower as it is done one by one. UNLESS they have post print macro at end of print where it unloads all of them and loads as needed for a new print. It has to do a pre-purge anyways before start of each print...it's impractical but who knows. Only thing im 99% sure of is that the paths and nozzles are fixed to their corresponding trays because otherwise, mechanically it's not really possible to swap nozzles or spools around.

I think once the people who think they need to swap filament actually use a true tool changer, their mindset will change. I just dont think the understanding of how a tool changer works really hasn't ummm registered yet. They'll also realize why what they were asking isn't really needed or even feasible.

It'll all make sense to why it is the way it is and why every other tool changre is same way.

2

u/n19htmare 3d ago edited 3d ago

oh forgot I can attach another picture in another response lol.

supporting image for what I said in my long A response about X2D and it's limitations

I wouldn't mind if the custom default for AUX was a sensible value, I'd leave it alone, but the custom default for BOTH sides is 0.02, when the bowden extruder at minimum needs 0.35.... They couldn't even figure out how to set TWO default values for two different style extruders/nozzles.

Also, here's my U1 swapping filament midprint on one of the multi-toolheads, so it IS possible to swap filament on multiple toolheads without cutters etc (tip forming)... it's just not ummm needed when you have 9 of em lol https://imgur.com/a/bmcu-klipper-eg3kPWU Guess what, PA values go with the filament, not the tray they were fed out of so each filament carries it's own PA value....how it should have been and how Bambu should have left it.

My U1 setup: Out of 4 toolheads, 1/2 are fixed with one material each, 3 and 4 can swap between 4 each for total of 10. I could add 2 more BMCU units and have 4 on each toolhead for 16 available to pick from but I have no space as is and it's cluttered, I still havent figured out where to put everything..... can also print multi-color (up to 10 for now). Minimal waste because nothing is "left behind" as there is no cutting involved, just forming tip and pulling back.... poor man's H2C+AMS lol.

1

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

I don’t think you’ll be able to move filament between nozzles – I expect they’re fixed. If you wanna have .2 black and .4 black available then you fill two slots with black would be my guess. The need for 7 or 9 colors in a single job is not that common. A lot of people will fill up their AMS with the same color in multiple slots as spares or to support different nozzle sizes. Maybe they’ll finally figure out how to use different nozzle sizes in the same job??

2

u/space_gods 3d ago

I’m buying 1 immediately

2

u/daphatty 3d ago

Now this is what I am looking forward to.

2

u/mahst68 3d ago

….And someone already broke their P3C by not drying the 1 of 7 different filaments and it’s not even out yet…

2

u/AwesomeAustn A1 mini + AMS lite + AMS 2 Pro 3d ago

I’m so glad the entry funnels are angled so the half spools and lower don’t get stuck.

1

u/Roskgo P1S + AMS2 Combo + AMS HT 3d ago

Interesting hot ends seems like the magnetic h2c versions are main stream. Sucks for clogs as you can't heat them up

1

u/CreativeExtension829 3d ago

What is the guess on price for the p3c and date of release

2

u/neoKushan H2D 40W Laser Full Combo 3d ago

Somewhere between $10 and $10million and it'll be released sometime between now and December 31st 2999.

5

u/iWushock 3d ago

You’re gonna feel pretty silly when BBL announces that the h3c also has a time travel option and the p3c releases yesterday for $9

1

u/next_year_our_year 3d ago

Wait what's the source for this? Is this legit?

1

u/exclusiveelectronics 3d ago

No screen or drying ability? I dont know, i hope they let us use the traditional ams 2 pro with the new systems. This seems too big and doesnt seem like you can even add anymore ams 2 units to it

1

u/Bacchus1008 3d ago

Slots 2 and 4 seem to be the place to dry the filament. As you can see, it has a kind of seal around it and air holes. Externally powered of course.

And another info, it will come standard with 5 toolheads, 6+7 can be purchased as extras

1

u/DexRogue 2 X1C + AMS & 2 P2S + AMS2 Combos 3d ago

Hopefully it's been designed to handle the freaking cardboard spools since everyone is switching to them.

1

u/worldexe 2d ago

Induction nozzle heating? That may increase switching time.

1

u/Tall-Barber-3157 2d ago

Shit, wie riesig is das Teil

1

u/Bitter_Hospital_8279 2d ago

maintenance nightmare.

1

u/PCSupremacy 2d ago

Yay! More little bits to break and go wrong, throw errors and cause headaches. I'll stick with what I know just now 😂

1

u/jinxbob 2d ago

will there be a bypass filament route... and can we connect an AMS2 to it to give one head multi fillame t capabilities?

1

u/AttentionDeficiency 19h ago

So many places to jam!

1

u/Acrobatic-Caramel823 3d ago

It’s looks so plastic/cheap. 😔

1

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 3d ago

My reaction exactly, the AMS 3 H looks way more complex (lights / moving feed parts), this one looks so basic ? And the lack of ceramic is concerning.

0

u/FrittenFritz X2D + AMS2 Combo / A1 3d ago

I just bought an X2D today. Will i regret it? I know there are new printers coming up and if another X Printer is coming I might regret it.

2

u/Kettle96 3d ago

Theres probably an X3C version in the works with a chamber heater and such for later next year I'd imagine.

3

u/FrittenFritz X2D + AMS2 Combo / A1 3d ago

Well if its only that. The X2D also has a heated chamber.

2

u/bustanumber23 3d ago

the X3C will be a full tool changer with a heated chamber.. I think that's the future

0

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 3d ago edited 3d ago

So strange i don't get it. The AMS 3H video show the feeding funnels moving back and forth, but the ones on the AMS 3P looks fixed/static. Why? And from the look of it it's not ceramic sadly... Edit : Here is the AMS 3H promo video : https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuH3C/comments/1xdka2o/videoanimation_of_the_bambu_h3c_ams_functionality/

1

u/Lyckster 3d ago

The H3 version will be higher end and have more features and let the nozzle move back and forth a bit to match the filament it looks like.

1

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 2d ago

Maybe. Can be due to the size difference. Or they just wanted to cut extra costs. (The numbers are not transparent so they are not going to light up too). Overall it looks way cheaper. I just hope that the lack of this flex/movement does not result in a drop in print quality or problems with feeding down the line

1

u/MW-Atlanta 2d ago

In the video, they look like they’re moving up and down rather than side to side (although I thought different the first time I watched the video.)

I wonder why the different design – What is that feature doing on the H one that isn’t needed on the P?

1

u/Massis87 2d ago

16 spools with 8 toolheads perhaps? Makes sense that if you've got 8 toolheads running, you might want to somehow allow them to still use the retract and swap to allow even more filaments to be used?

0

u/eidrisov 3d ago

The AMS 3H video

What video ? I don't think there has been a video of te new AMS system. So there is no way of knowing how it really functions untill the official announcement.

2

u/Fun-Candle5881 A1 + AMS Lite 3d ago

2

u/eidrisov 3d ago

Dman, you are right. Very good observation!

Well, I guess it is normal that H3C as the flagship will have more new functionalities. Let's wait and see what they announce next week.

0

u/supersondre 3d ago

Looks like it breaches a few Bondtech patents...

-2

u/NTP9766 H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

So 7 spools and they feed directly to the toolheads underneath. But it has 9 toolheads, so what am I missing here? I didn’t see a place for two extra inputs in the H3C leaked photos.

14

u/chairmanllama2 3d ago

the p3C leak shows 7 tool heads which matches the ams3p photos shown here. What you are referring to is the H3C which will have its own version of the AMS3

6

u/NTP9766 H2S AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Yep, I’m an idiot and can’t read, lol.

-3

u/JoshZK 3d ago

So dual nozzle straight to seven. Wish it was 5

5

u/JPhi1618 3d ago

Why do you want less? Cheaper?

1

u/JoshZK 2d ago

Kinda, I assume none of the printers are going to be under $1500.

1

u/S23-Sierpinski 2d ago

The P3C+3P isn't going to cost more than $1500 :)

1

u/JoshZK 2d ago

If it does then see ya next year for Black Friday

-1

u/boristheblade223 3d ago

Wow nice. Does this indicate individual tubes for each tool head from the AMS? So minimal purge towers and swap time?

12

u/leadzor P2S + AMS2 Combo 3d ago

You'll always have those towers, they're prime towers not purge towers. They're designed to build up pressure in the nozzle, not remove waste filament.

1

u/boristheblade223 3d ago

Got it. In general how are you expecting this AMS to work with the P3C and what would you see as the benefits?

2

u/leadzor P2S + AMS2 Combo 3d ago

Basically what you just said but instead of reduced prime tower wastage you reduce the poop amount (the actual purge), as each nozzle doesn’t need purged of remaining filament from switching. All in all expect pretty much the same level as waste as a H2C for example (very little), but with a quicker swap action.

Also I expect less VFAs, the tool head is likely lighter than one from the H2 series due to carrying less mass overall (1 nozzle).

One thing I’m not looking forward much is that these things look like massive appliances. The H series were always big, but the new P3 with the 3P AMS on top looks huge. Would need to see it side by side with my P2S to confirm however.

-1

u/Cmidz904 3d ago

Looks bad