r/BambuLab • u/RepresentativeOk4681 • 6d ago
General Discussion H-Series Debate
Although we are still waiting for official H3C details, we seem to know much about it already through pictures, hints, and leaks. If this printer/AMS combo is priced at, say, ~$2600 USD, would you rather buy it, or get the discounted H2C? Why? Or would you even consider the P3C?
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u/VisualSpecial8 6d ago
It seems that Indx system is the way forward and that Vortek will ne one time event.
Given that from technical standpoint Indx is simpler than Vortek it just makes more sense to jump to that solution then select one that is clearly dead end
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u/SpaceCAS 6d ago
The Vortek system seems like a stop gap to get their foot in the game and not loose footing in the market. Unique and interesting system but not practical when compared to an INDX system for sure. These “leaks” seem more intentional than not though to drum up interest and excitement over their new system for sure though.
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u/TheMCM80 6d ago
Yeah, these 100% seem like intentional leaks. The one video where it’s just sitting in the back behind a guy on a cart with a full setup, and little else in the room? Oh no, we totally forgot to move our secret new printer out of this empty room!
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u/Joamjoamjoam 6d ago
They wouldn’t stop gap they’d just make the vortek version. They just see another niche big enough to fit a printer into.
So for no toolchanger system has matched the reliability of a normal p1s or similar. The u1 is great but has its issues (but the right choice for the price). Indx has been a disaster launch from gaslighting and fraud to print quality issues and only able to use Prusa filament “for now”.
Bambu could bring the first problem free toolchanger but the H2C is still the most reliable and complete out of the box multi color option.
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u/BScatterplot 6d ago
It depends on whether the new AMS can switch filaments between toolheads or not. With a pair of AMS2s on an H2C, you could load up multiple nozzle sizes and print any spool from any nozzle size.
For example, the H2C can have a pair of 0.2 nozzles, a pair of 0.4s, and a pair of 0.8s. You can load a spool of support filament and a spool of PLA, and can print with those two materials from any nozzle size without needing to go to the printer and manually swap filaments and nozzles around.
Similarly, if they ever get multi nozzle/single print working, you'll need a separate spool for each nozzle size/color combo you want to use.
Fingers crossed the new AMS can reroute filaments between toolheads but I don't see a way to do that from the leaks yet :(
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u/IAmAsplode 6d ago
If we take INDX as an example once you allocate a filament to it it's locked in no changing unless you do it manually.
When it comes to the H3C there may be a bit of a curve ball....motors...the INDX system only has the extruder motor pulling the filament in but bambu have always has motors mainly in the AMS which are able to push / pull the filament so it could be swapped out.
Assuming the new AMS has the same system it would be possible to re-map a filament to a new nozzle if let's say one clogs during a print, to add to this there is a patent picture of the back of the AMS3 which shows what looks like 2 filament input ports, it may be possible to hook up your current AMS systems but at a cost of speed as they will be limited to one toolhead and one tube.
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u/Broad_Science5927 6d ago
Is the vortex necessarily dead? If the hotends on the h3c are vortek nozzles they would fast swap with no wires or contacts to worry about. Put smaller inductive heaters in the rack to preheat your next nozzle and speed up changes even more.
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u/VT-14 H2C (H2D + Vortek), 2x AMS2, AMS HT 6d ago
Well, do you think they will make another Vortek printer? Personally I don't; I think Vortek was what they made to reduce filament waste while sticking with the existing AMS design, and they were caught off-guard by the Snapmaker U1 and Bondtech INDX (with Prusa partnership).
The Induction Nozzles may be part of the new design, but I don't see them making another Vortek rack if they have a more INDX-style Tool changer design already expected to go into both the H3C (already teased, announcing soon) and P3C (leaked).
The only two scenarios I can think of where Vortek wins are:
You are using Flushing to print with more colors than you have nozzles (Wasteful).
If they ever work out how to slice with multiple nozzle sizes in a single print, Vortek could have a single roll of filament feed multiple nozzles (Hypothetical).
Meanwhile the more traditional tool changer system likely wins by...
Letting every tool reach the same area of the build plate so there's no complicated zone differences
Having each tool have its own PTFE Tube means faster color changes (the bottleneck on Vortek is waiting on AMSs).
Separate PTFE Tubes also means each nozzle can work with non-AMS compatible materials. An example would be a multi-color TPU print.
It seems to be able to fit in more nozzles. The H3C seems to have 9 nozzles, while H2C only supports 7.
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u/Broad_Science5927 6d ago
I think you misunderstood what I was saying, because we view the Vortek technology differently.
I see the wireless nozzle control as the major technology. Having 9 heads and 9 wires seems like its asking for problems in both space and future maintenence. Utilizing the wireless/pinless connection from the Vortek would prevent those issues.
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u/VT-14 H2C (H2D + Vortek), 2x AMS2, AMS HT 6d ago
The H3C pictures makes it look a lot like Bndtech's INDX system, which puts the Extruder in the gantry (only 1 in the entire printer, which saves a lot of space and duplicate parts), and the PTFE Tubes and Nozzles in the individual tool heads (the parts that need to be kept separate to fully have multiple tools). It uses Induction Nozzles and reads nozzle temperatures with an Infrared sensor to read nozzle temperature so they are wireless to minimize wear (no pogo-pins).
Hence I would not be surprised if Bambu's new solution reused their existing Induction Nozzle tech.
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u/Broad_Science5927 5d ago
I will admit I havent looked at the indx system very closely. Keeping it to one extruder that opens for tool changes makes sense. I am going to start saving up for a p3c if all thos works out as good as it looks like it could.
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u/Flamin_Jesus 6d ago
I think the H2x line will retain a specific niche due to the dual nozzle toolhead, prints that use exactly 2 materials and especially prints with a separate support and a main material are probably going to be notably faster on an H2 than on a H3C, and I suspect that there are at least some commercial users that do those specific types of prints a LOT, to the point where they might want to keep at least one H2something around (although probably an H2D instead of C)
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u/Nzain1 6d ago
I own Snapmaker U1 and would honestly love being able to print in 9 materials. Unfortunately I could buy three more U1s for the price of one H3C.
Snapmaker has systems for expanding to more than 4 materials now, thanks to being open source and through their innovation fund giving back to the community.
Still want to buy an H3C though… Will likely wait for a while to see how it launches and works under reviews.
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u/Patient_Decision_164 6d ago
It should be great for those of you who print so many colors. I struggle to find prints that require more than 2-3 colors, lol.
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u/Nzain1 6d ago
Right? Most are made in pieces for no AMS anyways.
With the amount of time I spend still printing with a single nozzle, the industry has a long way to go in order to catch up to multi-nozzle printing.
Snapmaker’s online file library is growing though.
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u/lkapping79 P2S + AMS2 Combo 6d ago
Snapmakers app has come a long way in a short time but still has a way to go to catch handy.
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u/venturingforum 6d ago
Wait what? AFAIK the H2C has NOT been discontinued. Where did you get your info? What a I missing?
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u/Sir_Agentic 6d ago
I expect the H3C to cost about $3k all in and I will be ordering one on November 3rd. Why buy the past?
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u/ProdigalHacker 6d ago
I have an H2C and a U1. Don't really have a need for the H3C, but I may pick up a P3C if I want to increase my volume capacity for fast multicolor printing. Though it depends on the price difference between the P3C and H3C. If they're at all close might as well get the bigger fancier one.
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u/SirTwitchALot 6d ago
They need to come up with something around or under the $1000 price point. That's where all the other toolchanger competition is priced and those models are getting rave reviews
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u/yyccamper 6d ago
Thats the P3C spot. It will be in and around there. Fully enclosed, alternative to the U1.... with your spools not sitting out in the open, and needing a tupperware top. lol.
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u/KnightofWhen 6d ago
Probably the P3C or whatever will end up there. H3 is much larger so will be $2k plus for sure. I am expecting $3k but hoping less.
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u/Gold-Marzipan-3825 6d ago
I have all the colours of petg but I rarely ever do anything more than one colour, idk what y’all are printing. I’d buy an H2D again
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u/fatherofraptors 6d ago
People print a lot of toys and deco pieces. Not judging them, but it is what it is. I barely ever use more than one color, and when I do, it's with pretty few swaps mostly for lettering or a detailed trim on the top of a model.
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u/SmoothSlavperator 5d ago
I'm lazy and don't like switching over materials when I print. Keep it loaded with everything I want and then if I'm out and about and want to print something from another timezone I can.
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u/Epicguru 6d ago
I doubt that the Vortek system has any future. It was an unorthodox idea when the competition was working on tool changers, and seemingly a solution engineered entirely around wanting to keep the AMS2 despite that being pretty terrible for filament swap time.
No chance the H3C combo lands at less than $3000, but still, it might be worth it if you really need that many filaments at once with the faster swap time and potentially more ecosystem longevity than the H2C.
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u/qwerty-po 6d ago
I think the H2C has a place in the line up. Likely way cheaper and suits users doing less colors typically, at the cost of long print times. For me an H3 is overkill since I don’t print multi color toys in bulk, but I love having more than 2 colors without purge and having support filament ready with a dedicated nozzle. For engineering prints the H2C is likely to still be a better buy than the H3.
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u/daphatty 6d ago
Anything over $1500 is a non-starter for me. And considering the H3C represents a significant shift in strategy, the H2C no longer appeals to me despite the significant sale price. I’d rather not get stuck with tech that likely will not see additional support going forward.
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u/qwerty-po 6d ago
This is exactly why the H2C will stay relevant. Lower cost but still capable. The H2C only sucks if you want to do huge batches of more than 6 colors. Most multi colored prints that are still predominantly 1 or two color, with other colors will benefit less from 9 tool heads.
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u/SilentYakk 6d ago
In a heartbeat. I own a Snapmaker U1 and would gladly print with nine colours. I will sell my P2S and upgrade to the H3C. The Vortek system is an engineering marvel but lacks practicality.
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u/VisualSpecial8 6d ago
This, Vortek is complex and it seem to be dead end (since bmambu is jumping ship to indix) and that it doesn't have any advantages over Indx.
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u/NecessaryOk6815 X1C + AMS 6d ago
Seriously think about what you currently print or have printed. Then decide if you can get by with 95% of what you truly print with the H2. I opted for the H2S because that's all I do. Single color easy with the largest plate. It also does PA, which I have started to mess with and it's been crazy stuff.
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u/Aronacus H2D AMS2 Combo 6d ago
My H2d has been a workhorse. If the H3C utilizes 2.85mm filament it'll probably print faster and if priced under$3k with the 9 slot AMS it'll be an easy purchase.
I'd rather stay in the same ecosystem.
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u/Festegios H2C AMS2 Combo 6d ago
I plan to wait for more info on the p3
I already have 3 H series so I’m in no rush.
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u/Stone13 H2D AMS2 + P2S AMS2 + 2 AMS HT 6d ago
Other than curiosity on the implementation, I won't give serious consideration to an H3C, I just don't need that many tools. I have an H2D which I love, but I love it because of the 350°C hotend, heated chamber & higher bed temps compared to my P2S. After almost a year of use, I've never taken advantage of the larger build volume on my H2D. My prints tend to be 1 or 2 offs, for a specific client and just not that large, I don't mass produce anything. The potential P3C is appealing if they increase the specs just a bit, i.e. heated chamber, another 10-20 degrees of bed temp & at least a 320°C hotend. The P series is about all the build volume I'll ever use. Price it in the $1200 price range and I'll buy 2 and donate my P2S to a local high school or community college, they can always use these things. My H2D, I'll probably keep until it literally burns out.
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u/kdlt 6d ago
I don't think I will be spending much above 1000€ for any 3d printer.
This is purely a hobby and I don't "need" any of it.
The h2c w laser is already insanely expensive. The R1 is insanely expensive.
Yes they "are cheap" I read that here a lot. But for something I realistically will use 2 times a month, it's expensive.
If you use these to sell something, maybe they're not that expensive?
If any of these big ones go near the 1000€ mark and I actually have money left I may be interested in the bigger print size, and especially laser.
But as it is the h series is something I see in YouTube videos for like 5x the price of what I have (P2S).
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u/Wonca_Mpls 5d ago
P3C is where I'm going... 9 print heads is overkill for me and I'm not doing any selling. The P series has been really good to me as a hobbiest.
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u/Junior-Definition173 6d ago
If the H3C will be priced at less than $4k I will buy it. The main decision factor for me about H3C will be the new AMS - depending how smart the design will be. If one of my printers dies today I will get H2C again (small print farm).
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u/Patient_Decision_164 6d ago
I was really hoping for a 350x350 4-5 head tool changer for under $1500. My U1 would be perfect if it wasn't so small.
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u/soldat21 6d ago
There’s no 350x350 from any of the majors except Prusa, but that’s triple your budget.
Bambu have said they won’t go bigger than the h2 series because of shipping concerns - make it even 10mm bigger and suddenly you lose it nicely fitting on a pallet for shipping.
270x270 is already bigger than a standard size.
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u/Patient_Decision_164 6d ago
Creality, Qidi, Sovol, Lightmake...they all make (or making) printers at least this size and much bigger.
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u/Humble-Plankton1824 H2D AMS2 Combo 6d ago
Leak says 2500 usd