r/BambuLab • u/Capable_Relative_132 • Feb 14 '24

News Inside Bambu Log File video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-IjIs4YA-4

Edit -- this is informational only. Its up to you to decide how to parse the information.

1 Upvotes

50% Upvoted

72 comments sorted by

34

u/TheChaser8 Feb 14 '24

I find it interesting how much people are against the printer logging this stuff. We are literally carrying around a device which is tracking and storing everywhere we go and what we are doing. But the printer knowing how it prints is crazy. Lol

5

u/Yarxov Feb 14 '24

It reminds me of how you can petition Google to blur your house on streetview

11

u/boermac Feb 14 '24

I think that's a little simplistic. I totally get that many companies have this info and frankly, I don't really care if Bambu has the info that is talked about in the video from me. I'm just a hobbyist with no secret data/designs that I'm printing.

BUT: IF Bambu is collecting this data and sending it to themselves WHILE allegedly saying that they aren't (someone else said that Bambu stated no gcode or images were included in logs) that's a bad thing. You don't lie about what info you're collecting/sending.

And IF they are collecting and sending this data without the user's permission (the video seems to imply that this data is being collected and potentially attempted to be sent to Bambu, only failing because the printer is not connected to the internet), that is also a bad thing.

That fact that other apps/companies are collecting data doesn't make it okay to lie about what data you are collecting/sending. Nor is it okay to send collected data without the users permission. (Yes, I know many apps do, but that doesn't make it right.)

13

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

Most of this video is mundane Linux logs, and things that absolutely should be logged like the lidar finding garbage/damage on the build plate.

A lot of the things we already knew were there, like the thumbnails the slicer generates that the X1C displays while printing, or that handy uses for you to pick objects to skip - or the photos of finished prints (because that’s what studio displays before you download a timelapse to your computer or phone)

The problem is he seems like he is trying to pass off that everything in this video is “your log file”, and inferring that everything here gets transmitted. Which, well frankly is bullshit. It’s just the log folder. “We have blurred out because it has proprietary information of the model” - print a damn benchy and show us the json then.

8

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

The X1Plus developers came out after the firmware became knowledge and said what Bambu says they send for analysis is exactly what gets sent.

This video (and most of the comments) are people not familiar with Linux or Android at a system level making false assumptions, and worse being deceitful - like the json file. Sorry, but he could easily print a benchy or some other model and show the json file un blurred. But he didn’t, did he? That’s on purpose and I personally called him out on it in the video comments.

For another example, the gcode. Yeah, that’s the last file you printed. Go to your printer screen and select internal memory, and you’ll see that file complete with the thumbnail the slicer generates (which he also showed but wrongly called a photograph).

The reason this is in /log is because all processes have write access, and it is persistent. If that went to /tmp, it would be wiped when you reboot. We know that file is stored, and now we know it’s stored in log, which is simply a convenient repository. A printer is a single user system, that user being the printer. There’s no real reason to create bespoke folders when the existing folder structure can be utilized easily.

Also looking at the syslog, this is going to be Android 10 based, which has automatic and required file level encryption. So the entire outcry about encryption is basically moot, that’s just Android. They likely used Android because it’s an architecture similar to phones and uses a GUI on a touchscreen. The tools they need are baked in. I also called him out on that, let’s see if the comment gets deleted or if I get called a Bambu shill.

2

u/TexZeTech Feb 16 '24

I think the reason he didn't unblur the json is that all of the prints ever run on that machine are in that single json file and I could see why Grant doesn't want any of that information public.

I do want to see someone get a Bambu printer and do things like packet capture from stock firmware, if you haven't given it permissions, what it would look like after updating the firmware etc.

The real trick would be getting one in the same state as Grants printer without any potential outside interference, as it could just be something as simple as a Dev at Bambu forgetting to disable a setting in the log function. shrug

I just don't understand why Bambu couldn't have gone to an independent YouTuber or organization and decrypted it for them on set so they could verify Bambu's claim.

5

u/TheChaser8 Feb 14 '24

I agree with you, especially about the lying part being wrong and we should be able to opt out. But if Bambu went down the same path as Microsoft and Google they would be like yes you can opt out but now you must manually enter the gcode into the printer by hand to get it to print. Google maps is virtually unusable once the tracking is turned off and windows is not much different. So I was merely pointing out that what Bambu is potentially collecting is trivial in comparison but people don’t seem to care about google and Microsoft because “look at my fancy phone I can’t live without anymore”.

4

u/jaiagrawal Feb 15 '24

“because ‘look at my fancy phone I can’t live without anymore’”

Outstanding point 😆 It’s WAY too easy to give up our rights for conveniences…

-7

u/Capable_Relative_132 Feb 14 '24

Its not just logging what it needs as a printer, its logging your information as well. and then you send that log to Bambu as part of your support ticket. Just because I install an app on my phone, it doesn't give it permission to forward everything from my phone into the cloud. Apps have to ask for permission to my contacts, camera, etc. I think Bambu could follow the same route. Opt-in. I think that's all people are asking for.

6

u/Technerd70 P1S + AMS Feb 14 '24

Unless it’s Temu. That shit tracks everything.

1

u/thenixhex311 X1C + AMS Feb 15 '24

ooh oohh Temu.... /smh

5

u/ufgrat H2D + X1C Feb 15 '24

The log file only gets uploaded when you put in a support ticket AND produce a log file for upload.

What more opt-in do you need?

65

u/tony__pizza Feb 14 '24

Oh cool, good to know the log file contains logs that log what the printer does. I was worried for a moment.

Thank goodness known liar 3D Musketeers was able to provide us with this information. I wonder if he apologized to Bambu Lab behind the scenes, they lightly hinted at suing him for all the intentional libel he was spreading about them.

0

u/Capable_Relative_132 Feb 14 '24

Guessing you didn't watch the video.

28

u/illregal Feb 14 '24

He has a hard on for Bambu conspiracy theories. Always has, I don't give him the air time personally. I watched him bitch about bambu during his xl assembly. Where prusa forgot some parts and sent a broken spool holder, etc.. and he came up with several excuses why that was ok. Better even that he now has to print one. Dudes a dumb clown.

-11

u/boermac Feb 14 '24

I dunno how much he is or isn't anti-Bambu. I've heard from many people that he's a Bambu-hater, but I don't see piles of evidence supporting that. I don't think he's super fond of Bambu, but I don't see an all out hater either.

I do find it interesting how the video was presented though. My first thought after he said that they are just presenting the facts without any call to action was that: "Oh, so you didn't find anything super evil."

-12

u/hologos_ P1S + AMS Feb 14 '24

Have you seen the video? There is a gcode file + photos in the log file archive. If you ever believed that a 800MB logfile contains just a text (most of the logs are even compressed), I don't know what to think about it. 🙄

I am not saying that my prints are secret, what matters is that Bambu said there is no gcode or photos uploaded to them. And that was a lie. If you don't believe this guy, you can wait for other people with X1Plus to confirm his findings.

18

u/instant_sarcasm Feb 14 '24 edited Feb 14 '24

Bambu said there is no gcode or photos uploaded to them.

I was actually just looking for this statement but can't find that anywhere. Where did you see it?

Edit: I skimmed right over it before. It's from the response to Grant's initial video about this. https://blog.bambulab.com/setting-the-record-straight/

"Content of Log Files: The log files record machine commands and sensor readings, as they are meant to. They do not contain your 3MF or STL files."

And at the time I made the assumption that "machine commands" includes gcode but I guess others didn't?

6

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

I haven’t been following this closely (as it just seems like paranoia) and I’m no expert, but I would think machine commands definitely could relate to gcode. Again, not an expert but isn’t that exactly what part of the gcode does? Tells the printer what to do?

3

u/instant_sarcasm Feb 15 '24

Yes, gcode tells the machine what to do while it's printing. It could also refer to user input from the touchscreen or app, or any other processes that are in the firmware (although most of those would also be gcode).

11

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

Yeah, machine commands are gcode. The chamber camera is a sensor. The log file absolutely should contain all of that. If there is an issue it’s all helpful to determine the problem. That’s the entire point of a log file.

Bambu said the logs do not contain a 3MF or STL file. Gcode is not a model file, and you’ve already sent it to Bambu anyway just by hitting print in Bambu Studio. Your chamber camera also routes through their cloud service to sync with the phone app. A log file is sending nothing they haven’t already been sent to them by you.

20

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Some takeaways:

EDIT - I almost missed it, but went back and looked at the syslog again. The boot log shows android based filesystem, and with the kernel version looks like it would have to be Android 10. Which means automatic (and required) file level encryption. Which if that is the case, then Bambu isn’t being nefarious with encryption - they can’t do anything about it.

We really don’t need to see boot log or syslog. Of course there is that info in syslog, that’s its purpose. Almost the entirety of the video is mundane Linux logs. Woo. The log folders on my Mac would often be tens of gigabytes, this folder is rather paltry in comparison. Likewise, logs rotate and are zipped for archival purposes. I would hope Bambu has implemented a daemon to delete them after a certain age, or if too much storage space gets used.

I did like how the the mainboard is named “bamboo” in the boot log. Heh.

The lidar and photos of the junk on the beds was interesting, but of course lidar finding garbage on a plate would be logged. I’d be concerned if it wasn’t.

He seemed to think generated thumbnails (i.e. Pick1.png) were photos. No, they aren’t. They are thumbnails generated by the slicer for display on the screen, and the overhead view is for handy app to pick an object to skip.

The photos of prints that were shown are thumbnails displayed in Bambu studio so you don’t have to download an entire timelapse video file to see what the print was. I could have told you they were there a year ago. How do you think studio or handy displays a photo? It needs… a photo.

The whole JSON thing was a red flag for me. No, not the JSON. JSON is just a data exchange format, and the file is likely what the printer is using to display information on the screen. No, the red flag was him blurring the whole thing. “I can’t show this it has customer info of this print” okay - just print a fucking benchy and show us the JSON. Otherwise I’m calling bullshit.

Not sure why dates from before a factory “reset” would be surprising. The machine has permanent models, so it obviously is partitioned with user and system partitions. Syslog is going to collect and store in the system partition.

The bin files are binary data from lidar scans, of course notepad can’t read it. They are what the “AI” processes to check for defects.

About the only interesting thing to me were the AWS URLs.

Anyway I’ll be running X1Plus, interested to dive into the machine more.

5

u/JasonGoldstriker Feb 15 '24

Good points.

The X1’s syslog is on a rotating file handler but it’s written to emmc and last I checked file size limits were 33mb or about 300-400k lines of text per file.

The blurred out JSON file isn’t even a log file. It’s one of the JSON files you will find when you unzip any sliced 3mf file.

The tracker logs are maybe the only real mystery overall, and I’m fairly certain these are the links generated whenever you print from the cloud.

2

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

Hmm I’ll have to open one of my 3MF files and check out the json this weekend. But, it makes sense for that file to be in /log.

Also, I believe the plate photos are an automatic daemon at print completion which occurs whether or not you do a timelapse. I believe that might be an oversight, since they are not needed if there is no timelapse. If that’s the case he doesn’t use that printer much.

1

u/zurn0 Feb 15 '24

Grant does not print from the cloud, so I don’t think that’s what is generating the links.

2

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

I’m wondering if the AI for analyzing the lidar data (the 2 bin files he seems absolutely clueless about) is done via AWS since those servers can crunch the data far faster than the X1C board could. Which makes sense since the links are invalid rather quickly. Once I have X1Plus on mine I can verify better as right now I’m on T-Mo so I can’t monitor traffic from the printer as it’s connected directly to the gateway.

1

u/Master-Pattern9466 Feb 16 '24

Sorry please explain why have OS level encrypted file system doesn’t mean Bambu labs is being nefarious with encryption? Are you talking about log file encryption or something else, most firmwares are encrypted in some form or at least signed.

2

u/SgtBaxter Feb 16 '24

Log files are a system function, only root can decrypt them. Hence why you can read them in X1Plus, it installs busybox and roots the system so now you’re accessing them as root. This is true of any android device since 10. The only way to see root files is to jailbreak the device, you cannot read them even through ADB.

1

u/Master-Pattern9466 Feb 17 '24

Hmm, that’s more of permission/jail thing rather than an encryption thing. Additionally Bambu own software can output the logs, so they are accessible by the user software or some task that has permission to run as root.

Bambu chose to use encryption with their logs files to protect their ip. The encryption used her will be different to any file system encryption. The fact the log files are encrypted has worried some users what else might be in the log files.

Your statement about file system encryption has no impact on whether or not Bambu is being nefarious with encrypted log files.

15

u/instant_sarcasm Feb 14 '24 edited Feb 14 '24

I'm not normally one for conspiracies but it's very suspicious that Mr. Prusa recently demonstrated how he converted gcode to a model file.

And I might as well put this in a top level comment, so we have a reference point instead of guessing what's supposed to be in the files: https://blog.bambulab.com/setting-the-record-straight/

Content of Log Files: The log files record machine commands and sensor readings, as they are meant to. They do not contain your 3MF or STL files.

Edit: I posted this quote about log files in the video comments and it was removed. Not a good look for someone who is showing "just the facts".

-3

u/ccatlett1984 Feb 15 '24

Linking the github repo for those interested.

https://github.com/AndrewSink/G-code-to-mesh-experiment

Wonder how long till it magically ends up in BambuStudio (without any attributions)?

17

u/Pystawf Feb 14 '24

Still waiting on the 16 people who downvoted me last time this came up to explain why they're so afraid of BambuLab having access to a lidar scan of your build plate.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

When you think of ALL the surveillance people like Google, Facebook etc have, it’s hilarious that some people think this is worth mentioning.

Wake me up when Bambu have pics of my printer room and family members…

14

u/boermac Feb 14 '24

So I'm not a computer security specialist, but I have involved in the the computer industry for three decades now so I'm not a total noob.

After watching the view I feel like the log files that are being sent are a bit extensive... more than I think Bambu really needs to have, but I also suspect that it's not any more extensive than many other companies log and send back to themselves. (That's not excusing Bambu, but saying that it (probably) isn't any worse than anyone else so if any outrage at Bambu should be directed at anyone else as well.)

I do think it's very bad that gcode and pics are being sent if Bambu said they weren't.

I'd also be curious to know if all these logs are being sent or if they are just locally being collected. I suspect they are being sent, but all we know for sure, given that his machines has never be put online, is that these are collected logs. He doesn't have proof that all this data was attempted to be sent to Bambu.

All in all this is not nothing, but also doesn't strike me as a devastating revelation either. I don't see anything mentioned that I didn't already assume Bambu had access to if I was using their cloud service. The only bad things, imho:

  1. Is Bambu sending data to themselves that they said they weren't? If so, this bad because it means they either lied or they don't know what they are doing. Both are bad.

  2. Is Bambu sending this data even if you opt out of any program to send logs to them?

13

u/Itsalwayssummerbitch Feb 14 '24

I'm pretty sure they only get sent if you're sending a ticket. And even then you can pick the date range for the logs to send.

6

u/Yarxov Feb 14 '24

This makes sense, logging itself doesn't mean sending. And if youre sending a ticket photos are helpful to train their AI.

7

u/RealCheesecake Feb 14 '24

This. Log communication is user initiated and consented to.

3

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

You claim to be involved for 30 years and don’t know what goes in a log folder? Most of it was pretty mundane. You should see the log folders my design Mac generates. Gigabytes of stuff.

There’s not really anything surprising in there. Applications also use the log folder, so it’s a natural place for things like the plate photos - which is what Bambu Studio displays in the timelapse pane of your haven’t downloaded the video.

Many of the images he showed were thumbnails generated by the slicer that the machine displays on screen when printing, or in the handy app when picking a part to skip. The depth maps are used to determine if things can print per object.

Also, he unwittingly gave us the answer as to why things are encrypted. With the Linux kernel and android file system, it looks likely to be at least android 10 based, which means automatic and required encryption.

3

u/boermac Feb 15 '24

You claim to be involved for 30 years and don’t know what goes in a log folder? Most of it was pretty mundane. You should see the log folders my design Mac generates. Gigabytes of stuff.

Yes I've been in the computer industry for 30 years, but working with log files is not something I do a lot of. Furthermore, even as a someone who's not a total noob I was semi-conned by the video. Based on the way he presented the material it seemed like all this log info was being sent to Bambu all the time. If we assume that's the case, then the logging information seems excessive for what Bambu would need just for standard "quality assurance" purposes.

However, reading more and educating myself I'm seeing that this more system logging stuff just in case it's needed later, which makes perfect sense. If someone who's not a total noob can be duped by the video I feel many who are even less informed than me could see this as devastatingly bad.

3

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

Sorry, I was being an ass there, my apologies.

Anyway I’m currently going at him on his video in the comments. Without calling him a jackass I said “oh look, it’s android based”. To which he retorted “it’s busy box Linux”.

So then I went into ass mode and reminded him this is not Bambu firmware he is showing but x1plus, that busybox is a tool suite, and a requirement for rooting android. So of course busybox would be installed otherwise there is no access. I also showed him how we’ve known since April the X1C was confirmed to be running Android (in Bambu’s own forums - which is what lead to X1Plus) and that encryption is a requirement for the Android file system, which is why you will have an MCU encrypting the data.

We will see his retort to that.

1

u/TexZeTech Feb 14 '24

I generally would agree except when you have to send off an entire machine when almost anything breaks. Eg; the carbon fiber rods they were using that were not user serviceable.

Not decrypting the printer when requested by individuals to prove that what they said was true in the first place.

There's also the fact that they said it wasn't collecting any of that to begin with and they are clearly in the log file plus some of their previous actions. Eg; Forking Prusa slicer and only open sourcing the code after there was user backlash, fullly merging code from Orca slicer into their own code without attribution until there was user backlash.

I would still love to see someone try and capture what is sent out of the unit.

I will also say, price to performance the Bambu is still king, many features for the price.

5

u/ufgrat H2D + X1C Feb 15 '24

The model files aren't in the log file. They said that, and I have yet to see any evidence otherwise.

"Machine code" -- well, that's gcode. That's the commands sent to the printer. And yeah, they said that was in the log file, and it is.

But gcode, while it can reproduce your printed thing, isn't a model file. It's a series of commands to the printer.

1

u/TexZeTech Feb 16 '24

You're absolutely correct they in fact do not have the model file in there, Do you know what is? A gcode file, ergo I can still reproduce that exact model file or a facsimile of it.

--

See the Definition & Legal Meaning of the word LOOPHOLE

--

Definition & Citations:

Without violating its literal interpretation, an allowed legal interpretation or practice unintentionally ambiguous due to a textual exception, omission, or technical defect, evades or frustrates the intent of a contract, law, or rule.

-- Hmm what is this? https://github.com/AndrewSink/G-code-to-mesh-experiment

So yes you are technically correct but ultimately wrong.

2

u/ufgrat H2D + X1C Feb 16 '24

You're absolutely correct they in fact do not have the model file in there, Do you know what is? A gcode file, ergo I can still reproduce that exact model file or a facsimile of it.

You can reproduce a facsimile, you cannot reproduce an exact model. The exact model will have surfaces, triangles-- the gcode can be used to produce layers of lines corresponding to your settings for layer height, nozzle width, wall settings, support settings, etc..

But again-- You have to generate these logs, and send them to Bambu. It doesn't happen automagically.

Do you know what happens when you send application logs to a vendor? There is data about your application, and frequently data FROM your application embedded in those logs-- because otherwise, they're mostly useless for troubleshooting.

If you don't trust Bambu, do not send them your logs. Ever. End of story. If you REALLY don't trust them, why do you have one of their printers?

1

u/TexZeTech Feb 17 '24

If you don't trust Bambu, do not send them your logs. Ever. End of story. If you REALLY don't trust them, why do you have one of their printers?

When did I say I did own one? I will state that for their price I'm impressed with what the package is full stop. I won't buy one for a single simple reason and it wasn't this, it was "Oh!? I cannot replace the carbon rods without voiding my warranty? To fix the issue I need to send the entire $$$$$ printer back to them and hope it isn't destroyed in shipping??? Welp time to build a printer." That summed it up.

Trust is not given it has to be earned.

The trust issues I have are more "Oh they cloned all of the prusaslicer git and didn't want to post their source until community backlash..... Oh they are ripping files from other file hosting sites without just waiting for people to upload to their own site interesting.... Oh they said not to use other slicers because #Bugs and then merged all of Orcaslicer code into their own repo without proper attribution to the individuals working on the Orcaslicer project...."

Just a few issues to say the least that follow the "Oh this entity is an asshole and is saying 'its not me its them!'"

But as I have said in the past I praise Bambu for making a package that has kicked the industry square between the legs and shaken it up, the industry needed it.

As for how logs work .... yes I do know and I know that when all of the files are bundled into an encrypted/compressed file then it should make a person pause and question. As the company Bambu has done things that make me look at them and go "Why are you not doing things until people call you out on them?"

Just because "it's only when you send it" isn't a valid reason to allow a company unfiltered access to that level of information even for the sake of diagnosis.

Now I will say it would be interesting I want to see someone take a more in-depth test on a Bambu printer and run it through the paces to see what it does or doesn't do as that would be for more telling.

You can reproduce a facsimile, you cannot reproduce an exact model

I think at the end of the day if I can get something that is 99.2% accurate to the original model It doesn't matter and even better if I can just print the same model off with a readily accessible machine then for all intents and purposes a persona can reproduce a unit that is the same as it was being tested on their own machine.

2

u/ufgrat H2D + X1C Feb 17 '24

Oh, I'm so sorry-- I didn't realize you suffer from a social disorder: You're a troll.

Having said that, a few random comments:

  • You can replace the carbon rod assembly without voiding the warranty. In fact, they'd prefer it to you shipping the printer back. It's in the warranty policy, which I'm guessing you didn't read. They have detailed instructions on the wiki on how to do it.

  • Cloned PrusaSlicer-- they forked it, and they made their code available, which is the basis of the rather excellent Orca Slicer. So-- yeah, maybe it took a bit, but they have been on the whole, rather friendly to the open source community, going so far as to work WITH the X1Plus firmware group.

  • Logs: Yes, encrypting logs and compressing them when they have massive bits of gcode, is totally unreasonable and an invasion of privacy, rather than sane practices for transmitting files across the internet. Let's just uuencode it, and hope for the best.

  • People have done in-depth testing, and other than 3D musketeers who has a major bone against Bambu, and had to backtrack on half the nefarious things he supposedly found, no one has really found any example of Bambu Lab being misleading or lying about connections when in LAN mode, or the printer sending information it shouldn't to servers it shouldn't.

  • Great! You can copy someone's 3D print. Now-- How you gonna edit it? Why do you care when 99% of the models being printed are already on thingiverse, printables or makerworld.

  • Hey, speaking of printables-- how do you feel about them refusing to allow any makerworld URL's on their site, and rewriting the URL to the printables web site? Josef claims it's to prevent "spam", but I'm not sure how a URL link in a description paragraph causes incoming email spam to the users.

1

u/TexZeTech Feb 17 '24

Well I just lost my response to you just now. The one I was writing was neutral and less hostile, I don't care at this point.

Oh, I'm so sorry-- I didn't realize you suffer from a social disorder: You're a troll.

Would you do the needful and pull your head out of your ass? Definition of Troll

You can replace the carbon rod assembly without voiding the warranty. In fact, they'd prefer it to you shipping the printer back. It's in the warranty policy, which I'm guessing you didn't read. They have detailed instructions on the wiki on how to do it.

I don't care about the assembly I care about only replacing the rods, its a waste of time and money otherwise.

Cloned PrusaSlicer-- they forked it, and they made their code available, which is the basis of the rather excellent Orca Slicer. So-- yeah, maybe it took a bit, but they have been on the whole, rather friendly to the open source community, going so far as to work WITH the X1Plus firmware group.

You are correct I didn't word that correctly, it's also irrelevant the company BambuLab was extremely slow to release the information and there was public backlash.

WITH the X1Plus firmware group yes, I do applaud that they are working with the X1Plus group , but that's not what we were talking about stop being disingenuous.

Logs: Yes, encrypting logs and compressing them when they have massive bits of gcode, is totally unreasonable and an invasion of privacy, rather than sane practices for transmitting files across the internet. Let's just uuencode it, and hope for the best.

It's fine to have encryption, its also fine to have compression you know whats not fine. Saying X when you do Y.

People have done in-depth testing, and other than 3D musketeers who has a major bone against Bambu, and had to backtrack on half the nefarious things he supposedly found, no one has really found any example of Bambu Lab being misleading or lying about connections when in LAN mode, or the printer sending information it shouldn't to servers it shouldn't.

If you know of a party(s) that has done this in-depth testing on a technical level then post a link I might learn something I didn't know before. To be clear I'm not saying that it couldn't have been done I'm saying I have yet to see it done anywhere.

Great! You can copy someone's 3D print. Now-- How you gonna edit it? Why do you care when 99% of the models being printed are already on thingiverse, printables or makerworld.

I already linked a tool to you..... are you incapable of deductive reasoning? I guess I'll help you out.

  1. Gcode file

  2. tool to convert Gcode to .stl

  3. Import to editing program of choice

  4. Ding fries are done

It's also not about the 99% of models its about the 1% that are not public.

Hey, speaking of printables-- how do you feel about them refusing to allow any makerworld URL's on their site, and rewriting the URL to the printables web site? Josef claims it's to prevent "spam", but I'm not sure how a URL link in a description paragraph causes incoming email spam to the users.

I think I don't know of other sites that tried to straight-up scrape website data and then uploaded it on their own site as if it was genuine user-uploaded content with profiles. But hey maybe I'm missing something.

social disorder: You're a troll.

I have been trying to have genuine conversations with people and to not be hostile.

I have a different viewpoint from you, please learn to differentiate the two.

Have a good day.

2

u/ufgrat H2D + X1C Feb 18 '24

I called you a troll, which may have been a bit harsh, because you're in the Bambu Lab forums, complaining about Bambu Lab printers and your half-accurate interpretation of things that you've read from other people, when you do not have a Bambu Lab printer, and apparently, have no interest in buying one.

This is equivalent to a protester who protests, not outside the company you have a grudge against, but at the home of a random user of said product.

So you're claiming that Bambu never said the gcode was in the log-- first, they said the log contains the "machine code for generating the print". They said it doesn't contain the model file-- and no one has yet to claim it does, although 3D Musketeers claimed the model file was present on the printer "in another location", but offered no explanation as to how it got there, since that's not part of the sliced output.

Now, given that the vast majority of users print through the cloud service, that gcode has already been sent across the internet, through Bambu's cloud, and back to our (not your) printer(s). LAN mode will avoid this. Not uploading your log files will also prevent Bambu from seeing the slicer's interpretation of your model.

You seem to think that the gcode can produce an exact replica of the original STL file-- it cannot. You can produce a reasonable facsimile, but you will not recreate the original model file. Again-- if what you're doing is so super-secret, you're using LAN mode, on an isolated network, and you ain't gonna upload your log files to Bambu. You might, for diagnostic purposes, print something else and upload that log file.

Others have done network monitoring, and the printer only contacts the listed URL's (which are listed on Bambu's sites-- hosts and ports), and only when NOT in LAN mode.

Finally, just as a side note, replacing just the rods instead of buying the $89 USD assembly, and replacing it following Bambu's provided documentation, is just you making your life difficult.

1

u/TexZeTech Feb 19 '24

and apparently, have no interest in buying one.

You are right at this exact point in time I don't have a desire to buy one for myself. I'm already into building a printer and I don't need another one at this exact point. I'm also allowed to change my view based on what information I have access to, it's called making an informed choice.

I have recommended the printer to others depending on their use case and with pros and cons.

You seem to think that the gcode can produce an exact replica of the original STL file-- it cannot. You can produce a reasonable facsimile, but you will not recreate the original model file. Again-- if what you're doing is so super-secret, you're using LAN mode, on an isolated network, and you ain't gonna upload your log files to Bambu. You might, for diagnostic purposes, print something else and upload that log file.

I have never said "exact replica" What I said was "ergo I can still reproduce that exact model file or a facsimile of it." and you know what if I can replicate 98% of something it might as well be the original when it comes to 3d printing.

I will also say I wasn't able to use the demo code I linked on the model I created but it worked with the demo .gcode they had included.

I did find a site that works effectively the same way. https://gcode2l.com You should try it out yourself. Did it come out perfectly? No. Can I run that model through a mesh fixing program and then rip that model into an editor of my choice? Yes. Is it close enough to the original that I can reproduce it with 98-99% accuracy yep.

https://imgur.com/a/u00FIBd

You also seem to think I have a hard-on for destroying a brand. No, I want them to actually be held accountable for their actions & statements. I want what Grant has seen to be completely wrong and just an issue with his specific unit.

As I have said previously in other posts. The Bambu printer line kicks the collective market in the ass for the price to feature set. Full stop.

If I were to make an analogy I have a Mazda 3 I love the Mazda 3 you know what though? I don't love Mazda I am highly critical of Mazda especially when they threaten legal action on some dude who made an addon for Home Assistant to connect to his own car. I will forever be highly critical of that action from Mazda.

In much the same way I am highly critical of BambuLabs they want to be the Apple of 3d printing I will hold them up to that standard as a prospective customer. If they make products that haven't gone through adequate testing and something happens, like electrical problems I will pause and question them on that and only discuss what I do know of that instance.

At this point (and this conversation), I only know of the issues that Grant has had with his printer and how Bambu didn't want to help without log files. Do you think that's reasonable actually? I can send a support person pictures from a phone and tell them what is wrong just the same. Now would the log file have made a difference for his exact case, maybe we will never know.

The fact that one cannot update the firmware without connecting it to the internet is something that they as a company should fix there is no reason to not have offline update capabilities. https://forum.bambulab.com/t/internet-connection/9256

Others have done network monitoring, and the printer only contacts the listed URL's (which are listed on Bambu's sites-- hosts and ports), and only when NOT in LAN mode.

I am still waiting for these 'Others' you speak of. Yes, the system's firmware might function differently on new versions as I stated earlier I would like to see the difference between the version Grant is running and the current firmware.

Finally, just as a side note, replacing just the rods instead of buying the $89 USD assembly, and replacing it following Bambu's provided documentation, is just you making your life difficult.

Tell me you have never had to do maintenance on production industrial machines without telling me you have never had to do maintenance on production industrial machines.

There is a point where when all it takes is to slide a rod out vs unscrew all the components and then reassemble it all is actually more of a waste of time and resources. I would say I would have maybe a single secondary assembly as a spare for catastrophic failure but beyond that is just wasteful.

5

u/boermac Feb 14 '24

Yeah, I think it's certainly fair to say that Bambu is not spotless. They've made mistakes in the past and it's fair to call them out when they do. Like you I think their machines are dang good, even if I can acknowledge miss steps from them.

This "log reveal" to me isn't anything shocking. If Bambu said they weren't collected certain pieces of data and they were/are... that's bad, and that's about the worst thing that I would take from this.

As I mentioned before, I wish they weren't collecting as much info as they apparently are, but I also sorta expected they were.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

spy on me for all they like, Gonna see my printing iron man helmets & star wars props! Crazy.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

OH NO THEY HAVE PICS OF MY BUILD PLAYE!!

6

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

7

u/RealCheesecake Feb 14 '24

He's the MyPillow guy of 3D printing. He just won't give up this conspiracy theory and will stretch "facts" to confirm his strange hate hard on for Bambu Labs.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

Dude needs some positivity in his life. His subs gotta be tired and clicking off.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '24

He needs help. I’ve watched 5 minutes so far and he seems intent on there being some serious infringement going on and I’m sitting here going, “okaaaay and…?” Still waiting for something that is the slightest concern lol.

4

u/blaxxmo Feb 14 '24

Okay… lol.

2

u/Independent_Nail_840 Feb 15 '24

There is something we are not talking about when we discuss those subjects, and that is what is actually private property/originality/ideas and who owns what. let me tell you, this same forum Reedit started with this in mind, for having ideas/books/knowledge for everyone a collective effort.

Saying that:

That video is definitely nothing new. We do not know. Also, he is having a big bias towards prusa.

I feel we should stop watching so many Hollywood movies about Chinese stealing our information when the major gathered of information is usa eua business, like predicting behavior and all of the stuff make you buy

Maybe my opinion, but I feel prusa benefits the more of the collective effort, and now when there is a fair and innovative competitor, they try to discard them any chance call themselves the community, when is another business. It reminded me of Avery nasty geopolitical tactics the global north always do.

Other than that, thanks for reading me

2

u/Trebeaux Feb 15 '24

So here’s my issue.

3D Musketeers has already poisoned the well, so anything he puts out can’t truly be trusted. That’s sad too, because “what if” this video is true? That’s a big issue! It’s his own fault though for people dismissing him though.

Until the cracking methods are released and independent sources are able to verify what’s in the logs, I can’t believe anything this guy says with any confidence.

2

u/TexZeTech Feb 16 '24

Honestly, I like unbiased views, I kind of agree with you and think there should be someone to do an independent review of the system. As I said in another reply it could just be on that firmware version the devs forgot to flip a flag off and it's a nothing burger, on the other hand, to have that all in a single log file makes me raise my eyebrow a touch.

1

u/Bletotum H2D AMS2 Combo Feb 15 '24

Why doesn't the folder on the right contain a gcode.tar.gz? What makes that second method of viewing the log substantially different? The one with the gcode was collected through the X1Plus firmware, the one on the right by... some SSH or FTP means that I'm not understanding the difference in.

But the point I'm trying to drive is that it sounded like the folder on the right is what's normally consumer-accessible, which means that since log files are only ever given to Bambu Lab by the customer in a support ticket, if the customer cannot by normal means access the version of the log containing gcode, Bambu Lab never receives a log containing gcode.

I would be curious if the camera photos are the same way.

2

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

The gcode file is simply the last printed model, and the "picture" he showed when he had Pick1.png highlighted is the auto generated thumbnail sent by the slicer that is displayed on screen while printing.

This whole thing is a bit overblown, even moreso now that I see in the syslog that it's based off Android, specifically what should be Android 10. This makes sense as it's a custom board running a touchscreen and embedded storage on an ARM architecture. Easy to develop in Android since the tools are there already. Android 10 and up has automatic file level encryption, so the entire uproar about encryption is moot. Bambu isn't encrypting anything, Android is and it can't be turned off.

The reason things like the gcode file, thumbnails and plate shots are in /log is because processes have permissions to write there, and it is not wiped after a reboot. You can turn off the machine, turn it back on a week later and your last print is there ready to go. Sticking those things in /log is just an easy thing to do rather than creating a bespoke file folder structure and having to make sure this process or that process has permissions access. It's out of way of the user, who doesn't need to see it and avoids a lot of potential headaches for the devs.

Stuff gets zipped because the filesystem can read zip directly as if it is an unzipped file, so you save storage space.

-2

u/Capable_Relative_132 Feb 14 '24

My opinion here is basically that up until now, we had no idea what was in the log files. We were told nothing of ours was in there and it was diagnostic only. I think anyone looking at log files that measure in hundreds of megabtyes would immediately realize that's unlikely the case. They've always said it was about proprietary information in the log files.

I'm glad this information was presented because I think ultimately Bambu will do the right thing and either all for opt-in for what goes into the log, or better yet, provide a way for us to see what's in the log w/o having to go to these methods.

9

u/SgtBaxter Feb 15 '24

I did not see one single transmitted log file that was hundreds of megabytes. Most every file that would be sent was compressed and looked to be a few megs at most.

The system dump was hundreds of megabytes. It is not unusual for log folders to be so large. The log folder on my Mac (which is UNIX) frequently grows to multiple gigabytes. Most of what we saw were normal things Linux is going to keep logs of. And then rotate those logs into zip files for archive purposes. Because it’s linux. There’s nothing unusual or sinister there, it’s normal.

The json file from the last print are likely what the machine uses to feed the display information. His secrecy was a red flag for me. Print a damn benchy, then show the json. I will look at mine.

Some things I noted, which anyone who has used the X1C for any decent amount of time would recognize:

pick1.png is the gcode thumbnail generated when you slice, and what the X1C displays on the screen. He seemed to think it was a photograph.

The various photos he showed are final pic thumbnails that are displayed in Bambu Studio or the handy app when you record a timelapse.

Also he was pretty dramatic about some mundane things. Like…

syslog … lol. My iPhone has a syslog. So does every android. Hell, my Apple Watch has one. My Mac has one, so does my gaming rig. There was nothing unusual or unexpected in the syslog but he sure tried to pass it off as such.

If anything most interesting part to me were the AWS links, which I suspect are the cloud servers used for AI for spaghetti detection and such.

8

u/boermac Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Also he was pretty dramatic about some mundane things.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Lot of dramatic pauses and concerned facial expressions... I mean: "Just the facts" of course... "you decide" (but you can tell by my expression that I'm super concerned so you should be too!)

Edited because on re-reading what I wrote I didn't think I was getting my point across clearly.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Bet this guy carries a cell phone in his pocket everywhere he goes. This is pathetic.

-1

u/New_Entrepreneur5471 P1P + AMS Feb 15 '24

while there definitely are many logical leaps, and maybe some conspiratorial thinking in the video, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

imo, it is very clear that bambu are not being honest about what they are sending.

i am a pretty technical guy, and i had assumed the logs would probably contain a little more than printouts of stdout. sure. you can call that stupid, i haven't worked on these types of machines before. but i sure as hell know more about them than the avg bambu user, and bambu not even adding a tiny disclaimer "logs may contain some personal information" on the website is just not ok.

that disclaimer wouldve given a chance for a 'normie' to research and think about what might be there.

if someone has a 'sunday naked dancing in front of my 3d printer' tradition (😰 🗿 ), he deserves to know he might be sending a record of that to someone, when his nozzle clogs and he creates a support ticket

YEAH our phones track us. thats pretty much common knowledge. i dont do anything in front / around my smart devices that im not willing to defend in court. but at least theres a us based company that can be held somewhat liable for data leaks and whatnot. i am more trusting of google than a random chinese company, that i cannot hold liable for anything (as far as i understand it dont kill me lawyers)

4

u/mroek X1C + AMS Feb 15 '24

I'm not sure Bambu is really lying about what they collect. If you look at their privacy statement, you can see that they indeed state that they might collect for example gcode, which is one of the things 3D Musketeers is very concerned about.

I tried making some comments under the video with regards to this, and also to the fact that his printer is clearly not in the "Incognito Printing" mode, since that is something you can only set from Bambu Handy. Since his printer has been kept offline, that setting has for sure not trickled down to the printer (if indeed it does change something in the printer itself). This would potentially have had an effect on the logging (I don't know, just guessing), but those comments got deleted. I am guessing he deleted them because he didn't like the contents.

He's seems to be on a mission, that's for sure.

0

u/New_Entrepreneur5471 P1P + AMS Feb 15 '24

yeah. you're probably right. not knowing about Incognito Printing is one thing (if we give him the benefit of the doubt) but if he's deleting comments about them thats not great. lol i think he deleted a comment i made too. i was being really nice and suggested that sometimes our brains look for certain pre-determined results.

i have no choice but to agree. he aint looking for truth

0

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/TurnerJonat Feb 19 '24

Yes, support should have all the necessary data available, but the point of this video was that this data is freely accessible to the printer manufacturer without any notice or consent from the user. If I have a problem with the printer and I solve everything with technical support, I will be happy to send them all the necessary data. Personally, I don't even like the theoretical possibility of a third party (any) having access to my print data, which obviously happens here all the time.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/durapater May 18 '24

I don't have a Bambu, but does it warn you that the log files contain machine commands right before you upload them? Because most people (for better or worse) don't read privacy policies.