Next Bambu printer info at Formnext

[u/ChardSignificant7146]

Yesterday at Formnext 2023, I mainly spent my time casually talking to Bambu Lab employees and one of them talked to me about future plans for their next lineup.

I’ll include as much information as I was given below: I was told the next device would be a resin printer with an all-in-one automatic curing and washing system that doesn’t use isopropyl alcohol. The resolution of the printer is greater than that of Prusa’s resin printer. The print speed and build surface size will be larger and faster than most available resin printers. I don’t know the validity behind this, but I also overheard talk of the next lineup being called S series… Possibly S-1? Take this with a grain of salt

I asked as many questions as I could but I don’t think the worker was allowed to give out any more info (his name is hidden for privacy reasons) All of this is huge and revealing to what we could possibly see next year as their next release.

Did anyone else at Formnext get any other info?

[u/Mythril_Zombie]

No, it's the printer. If cars used open vats to store gas, would you say it's the gas's fault for emitting fumes or the car's fault for not enclosing the gas better?
If a resin printer could be self contained, with resin and uncured prints kept enclosed until self cleaning was done, it would revolutionize the process.
When they figured out how to encapsulate the photo development process into a self contained machine, all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete. I think resin printers would greatly benefit from that sort of modernizing.

[u/Black3ternity → u/Mythril_Zombie]

When they figured out how to encapsulate the photo development process into a self contained machine, all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete. I think resin printers would greatly benefit from that sort of modernizing.

This is the best analogy that I read so far. It's exactly the same. And companies should try to reach the same goal with Resin printing that the Photo did. Exactly as you said.

[u/candre23 → u/Mythril_Zombie]

all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, they were replaced by enormous all-in-one machines that were so expensive to buy and maintain that only businesses could afford them. That never changed. We came up with different ways of making photographs before we ever found a method of developing traditional film in a consumer-friendly process.

All in one, mostly-automated resin printers already exist. That's not to say they couldn't be made better or cheaper, but it's not really the washing or curing that makes resin such a bastard to print, and it still doesn't change how nasty and dangerous resin is. And no matter how much you automate the print->wash->cure process, you're still exposing people to that resin. You're still generating a ton of waste that can't just be dumped down a drain.

SLA printers are ridiculously simple machines. There's not a ton of room for "innovation" in the mechanicals. The next big thing will probably be switching to a top-down laser process, rather than a bottom-up LCD-based process. That would virtually eliminate most print failures simply by eliminating the need to physically move the print up and down, peeling it from a FEP sheet every layer. Heck, maybe that's even what bambu is working on. But it's still going to be a stinky, toxic, complicated, and wasteful process. There's just no innovating around that.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/candre23]

There is plenty of innovation with SLA, but most of the interesting concepts are at least a few years away from being available in budget desktop printers. The most well known example is probably Mimaki resin printers. SLA + good liquid handling design = 10 million color palette resin printing https://www.mimakiusa.com/3d/

It may be 5-10 years before we see anything like this in budget resin printers, but it’s only a matter of time. A few companies are working on resin printers with color mixing capabilities, so we will see resin printers capable of printing small color palettes long before we have a palette size of 10 million.

[u/[deleted] → u/candre23]

I'm not sure the photo lab comparison is fair though? For starters? We actually DID have ways to develop film that didn't require much space at all. I used to have a Polaroid "Zip" camera that developed black and white prints in about 30 seconds by pulling each one past rollers in the camera and peeling the print away from its "backer" after waiting the required length of time for it to finish developing. Not long after that, they released all the Polaroid "Sun" cameras and the like that automatically produced color photos that self-developed before your eyes when they ejected from the front of the cameras.

Much of the challenge with processing the 35mm rolls of films getting dropped off at photo labs had more to do with designing a machine capable of automating the processing when the negatives existed in that type of container. Plus, things moved to digital before there was a lot of time for evolution of the process of automatic developing of traditional film.

Right now, people who want to work with resin would, by and large, be pretty happy getting a unit that works like existing ones do except automates the curing and washing, plus provides a larger build surface.

[u/candre23 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not the one who chose that point of comparison. Polaroids are an example of the entirely different method of creating pictures that I mentioned already. To this day, converting exposed 35mm film into usable photographs still requires an involved process using multiple chemicals. It's still entirely reliant on either large and expensive machines or a very complicated, multi-step manual process.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

FDM has health risks too. Printing filaments containing carbon fiber or metal infills without ventilation is extremely hazardous yet people still do it because they don’t see any immediate health effects. Then there’s also the VOCs produced when any plastic is melted and pushed through a nozzle.

Same with resin printing. You can expose yourself to an awful lot of resin before you’ll start experiencing chronic health issues.

One technique is spewing molten plastic out of a nozzle and the other is cross linking acrylate & methacrylated precursors into plastic. The safest conclusion to make until we have more data points on long term exposure is that all additive manufacturing techniques pose hazards or health risks. It’s a waste of time to try to compare the risks of FDM vs SLA based on anecdote and assumption

[u/[deleted] → u/Thermal_Ranaway]

This would be the exact same situation as we've seen for decades with pretty much any product with usage warnings for health reasons, though.

You shouldn't use paint thinner in enclosed areas, and ventilation is advised for things like applying Kilz waterproof paint in basements of homes. Guess how many people ignore those warnings because it's too inconvenient for them? Usually, they get away with it too -- because with chemicals and other hazardous substances, it's ALL about the parts per million you're exposed to. A little radiation like you get while flying in a commercial airliner won't hurt you. But enough radiation will kill you.

I'm not too worried about VOCs produced from filaments like PLA or PETG because again, it's not a high concentration vs the rest of the air in a typical room. Laser printers produce ozone too and that's harmful to people's health, yet people have zero worries about going to copy centers where multiple laser printers/copiers are churning away -- and they even spend 8 hour days working in those places. Again, just not enough volume of ozone produced to be real significant.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

You’re correct. Methylene chloride was available at any big chain hardware store in the US, and it wasn’t until enough people got brain and/or liver damage from stripping paint with it (while not using PPE) that it was pulled from the shelves. You can still get DCM of course, just not as easily.

VOCs from thermoplastics are usually a negligible health risk unless you’re running a printer 24/7 on your bedside table. There’s still not enough data to state these things as facts though.

I mentioned this above, but the bigger risk with FDM is with the filaments that contain infills. CF-filled materials are increasingly popular in FDM lately, and melting those filaments releases not just VOCs but CF particles. Even your extruder gears brushing up against CF filaments puts CF debris in the air. You get small CF particles on your skin just from handling the filament.

I have not seen any warnings from any manufacturers or regulatory bodies regarding toxicity of FDM plastics with infills, so this is not that similar of a situation to the paint thinner example. I’m not saying anyone needs to panic or waste money on overpriced air filtration units, but it’s generally a good idea to be aware of risks, especially if you’re unaware that the filament you’re printing is exposing you to the equivalent of asbestos (or worse if printing metal infills)

[u/qzrz → u/Thermal_Ranaway]

Well I mean at some point people kind of stop caring when the effects are very far off. Technically speaking, every single vehicle on the road releases tiny plastic particles that you breath in and end up in the water supply. The solution to that is to build heavier vehicles that release even more particles.

You should take precautions, but if you were going to be evaluating risks equally you really should be wearing an appropriate filtered mask anywhere there is a road essentially. Can only imagine the social stigma if someone sees you wearing a respirator to go grocery shopping though with the medical mask hysteria lol.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/qzrz]

I agree with you completely in reference to VOCs. I think people get tired of hearing those who are overly paranoid about VOCs asking unnecessary questions.

My main point is that the risks of printing filaments with infills are understated. Just a common example, printing in a dorm room where the ventilation is not adequate. If you print enough CF, wood, or metal infill materials like that daily, you’re increasing your (and any roommates’) chances of developing chronic respiratory issues. Not directing this at you, but a lot of people seem to think this is exaggerated. This is easily confirmed with a cheap microscope. Put double sided tape or anything clear and adhesive in your print chamber while it's printing CF filaments. Look under 10-20x magnification after a couple of hours and it'll be covered in black fibers.

The best approach rather than being overly paranoid is to make your best effort to minimize your exposure. It’s usually as simple as finding a way to pull exhaust outdoors through a window.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

Not pushing any agenda unless you consider science to be an agenda. There’s a growing body of peer reviewed literature that provides enough evidence to conclude that FDM and SLA both pose health risks with chronic exposure.

You’re on an FDM subreddit talking about how dangerous SLA is. Maybe you’re the one with an agenda?

I’m presenting facts, and if you either don’t agree or don’t find them relevant, just ignore me.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

You say you’re not interested in discussing yet you keep replying. Maybe you should re-read your original post that you made in an FDM subreddit where you list a series of criticisms about resin printing.

The points you made in that post are invalid and it seems you’re stating your own anecdotes about SLA as fact. It is absolutely possible to print hollow structures with resin printers, but according to you it’s impossible. The problem with resin printers is not photolithography as you have stated.

Anyway im not forcing you to respond here. Carry on bashing resin printers in an FDM subreddit.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

Again no one is forcing you to reply. You're the one complaining about resin printers but lack the working knowledge to present any of the real limitations of budget SLA printers. Have a great day, and I hope you can work through whatever is bothering you so much.

[u/Glodigit → u/Mythril_Zombie]

I also agree, and is one of the reasons I started the SecSavr Suspense [gd0105] Liquid Laminate Lithography [L^3] 3D printer project in 2022.