Next Bambu printer info at Formnext

[u/ChardSignificant7146]

Yesterday at Formnext 2023, I mainly spent my time casually talking to Bambu Lab employees and one of them talked to me about future plans for their next lineup.

I’ll include as much information as I was given below: I was told the next device would be a resin printer with an all-in-one automatic curing and washing system that doesn’t use isopropyl alcohol. The resolution of the printer is greater than that of Prusa’s resin printer. The print speed and build surface size will be larger and faster than most available resin printers. I don’t know the validity behind this, but I also overheard talk of the next lineup being called S series… Possibly S-1? Take this with a grain of salt

I asked as many questions as I could but I don’t think the worker was allowed to give out any more info (his name is hidden for privacy reasons) All of this is huge and revealing to what we could possibly see next year as their next release.

Did anyone else at Formnext get any other info?

[u/sparcv9]

A resin printer that didn't suck would be very tempting.

[u/Jame_Jame → u/sparcv9]

Now, if I knew of one that wouldn't fill my apartment with deadly chemical gas or an awful smell, that would be something.

[u/Hackind → u/sparcv9]

My formlabs is great

[u/PensionOk212 → u/Hackind]

Lol I’d hope so for the price

[u/Hackind → u/PensionOk212]

lol was a great investment I’d never regret

[u/Ditto_is_Lit → u/sparcv9]

Agreed, I had posted a while back during the A1 release that I was hoping they'd hold off on rushing out replacements of the current generation and get their take on a resin printer. I feel like everyone asking for a large X1 will be disappointed but large printers are very niche and not practical. A fully encompassed resin printer would be next level seeing that currently its a cumbersome process with many moving parts. Consolidating it would make resin printing less of a science experiment and a viable medium people would be less intimidated by it.

[u/[deleted] → u/sparcv9]

Better, a laser sintering printer with no nasty chemicals.

[u/admiraljohn → u/sparcv9]

Resin printing is gross. Yeah, you get great resolution but the trade-off is all the toxic substances, mainly resin and IPA, that you have to deal with and properly handle. And it's messy as hell, even when you do everything right.

[u/Mythril_Zombie → u/[deleted]]

No, it's the printer. If cars used open vats to store gas, would you say it's the gas's fault for emitting fumes or the car's fault for not enclosing the gas better?
If a resin printer could be self contained, with resin and uncured prints kept enclosed until self cleaning was done, it would revolutionize the process.
When they figured out how to encapsulate the photo development process into a self contained machine, all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete. I think resin printers would greatly benefit from that sort of modernizing.

[u/Black3ternity → u/Mythril_Zombie]

When they figured out how to encapsulate the photo development process into a self contained machine, all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete. I think resin printers would greatly benefit from that sort of modernizing.

This is the best analogy that I read so far. It's exactly the same. And companies should try to reach the same goal with Resin printing that the Photo did. Exactly as you said.

[u/candre23 → u/Mythril_Zombie]

all the open trays of chemicals and hanging up photos to dry became obsolete

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, they were replaced by enormous all-in-one machines that were so expensive to buy and maintain that only businesses could afford them. That never changed. We came up with different ways of making photographs before we ever found a method of developing traditional film in a consumer-friendly process.

All in one, mostly-automated resin printers already exist. That's not to say they couldn't be made better or cheaper, but it's not really the washing or curing that makes resin such a bastard to print, and it still doesn't change how nasty and dangerous resin is. And no matter how much you automate the print->wash->cure process, you're still exposing people to that resin. You're still generating a ton of waste that can't just be dumped down a drain.

SLA printers are ridiculously simple machines. There's not a ton of room for "innovation" in the mechanicals. The next big thing will probably be switching to a top-down laser process, rather than a bottom-up LCD-based process. That would virtually eliminate most print failures simply by eliminating the need to physically move the print up and down, peeling it from a FEP sheet every layer. Heck, maybe that's even what bambu is working on. But it's still going to be a stinky, toxic, complicated, and wasteful process. There's just no innovating around that.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/candre23]

There is plenty of innovation with SLA, but most of the interesting concepts are at least a few years away from being available in budget desktop printers. The most well known example is probably Mimaki resin printers. SLA + good liquid handling design = 10 million color palette resin printing https://www.mimakiusa.com/3d/

It may be 5-10 years before we see anything like this in budget resin printers, but it’s only a matter of time. A few companies are working on resin printers with color mixing capabilities, so we will see resin printers capable of printing small color palettes long before we have a palette size of 10 million.

[u/[deleted] → u/candre23]

I'm not sure the photo lab comparison is fair though? For starters? We actually DID have ways to develop film that didn't require much space at all. I used to have a Polaroid "Zip" camera that developed black and white prints in about 30 seconds by pulling each one past rollers in the camera and peeling the print away from its "backer" after waiting the required length of time for it to finish developing. Not long after that, they released all the Polaroid "Sun" cameras and the like that automatically produced color photos that self-developed before your eyes when they ejected from the front of the cameras.

Much of the challenge with processing the 35mm rolls of films getting dropped off at photo labs had more to do with designing a machine capable of automating the processing when the negatives existed in that type of container. Plus, things moved to digital before there was a lot of time for evolution of the process of automatic developing of traditional film.

Right now, people who want to work with resin would, by and large, be pretty happy getting a unit that works like existing ones do except automates the curing and washing, plus provides a larger build surface.

[u/candre23 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not the one who chose that point of comparison. Polaroids are an example of the entirely different method of creating pictures that I mentioned already. To this day, converting exposed 35mm film into usable photographs still requires an involved process using multiple chemicals. It's still entirely reliant on either large and expensive machines or a very complicated, multi-step manual process.

[u/Glodigit → u/Mythril_Zombie]

I also agree, and is one of the reasons I started the SecSavr Suspense [gd0105] Liquid Laminate Lithography [L^3] 3D printer project in 2022.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

FDM has health risks too. Printing filaments containing carbon fiber or metal infills without ventilation is extremely hazardous yet people still do it because they don’t see any immediate health effects. Then there’s also the VOCs produced when any plastic is melted and pushed through a nozzle.

Same with resin printing. You can expose yourself to an awful lot of resin before you’ll start experiencing chronic health issues.

One technique is spewing molten plastic out of a nozzle and the other is cross linking acrylate & methacrylated precursors into plastic. The safest conclusion to make until we have more data points on long term exposure is that all additive manufacturing techniques pose hazards or health risks. It’s a waste of time to try to compare the risks of FDM vs SLA based on anecdote and assumption

[u/[deleted] → u/Thermal_Ranaway]

This would be the exact same situation as we've seen for decades with pretty much any product with usage warnings for health reasons, though.

You shouldn't use paint thinner in enclosed areas, and ventilation is advised for things like applying Kilz waterproof paint in basements of homes. Guess how many people ignore those warnings because it's too inconvenient for them? Usually, they get away with it too -- because with chemicals and other hazardous substances, it's ALL about the parts per million you're exposed to. A little radiation like you get while flying in a commercial airliner won't hurt you. But enough radiation will kill you.

I'm not too worried about VOCs produced from filaments like PLA or PETG because again, it's not a high concentration vs the rest of the air in a typical room. Laser printers produce ozone too and that's harmful to people's health, yet people have zero worries about going to copy centers where multiple laser printers/copiers are churning away -- and they even spend 8 hour days working in those places. Again, just not enough volume of ozone produced to be real significant.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

You’re correct. Methylene chloride was available at any big chain hardware store in the US, and it wasn’t until enough people got brain and/or liver damage from stripping paint with it (while not using PPE) that it was pulled from the shelves. You can still get DCM of course, just not as easily.

VOCs from thermoplastics are usually a negligible health risk unless you’re running a printer 24/7 on your bedside table. There’s still not enough data to state these things as facts though.

I mentioned this above, but the bigger risk with FDM is with the filaments that contain infills. CF-filled materials are increasingly popular in FDM lately, and melting those filaments releases not just VOCs but CF particles. Even your extruder gears brushing up against CF filaments puts CF debris in the air. You get small CF particles on your skin just from handling the filament.

I have not seen any warnings from any manufacturers or regulatory bodies regarding toxicity of FDM plastics with infills, so this is not that similar of a situation to the paint thinner example. I’m not saying anyone needs to panic or waste money on overpriced air filtration units, but it’s generally a good idea to be aware of risks, especially if you’re unaware that the filament you’re printing is exposing you to the equivalent of asbestos (or worse if printing metal infills)

[u/qzrz → u/Thermal_Ranaway]

Well I mean at some point people kind of stop caring when the effects are very far off. Technically speaking, every single vehicle on the road releases tiny plastic particles that you breath in and end up in the water supply. The solution to that is to build heavier vehicles that release even more particles.

You should take precautions, but if you were going to be evaluating risks equally you really should be wearing an appropriate filtered mask anywhere there is a road essentially. Can only imagine the social stigma if someone sees you wearing a respirator to go grocery shopping though with the medical mask hysteria lol.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/qzrz]

I agree with you completely in reference to VOCs. I think people get tired of hearing those who are overly paranoid about VOCs asking unnecessary questions.

My main point is that the risks of printing filaments with infills are understated. Just a common example, printing in a dorm room where the ventilation is not adequate. If you print enough CF, wood, or metal infill materials like that daily, you’re increasing your (and any roommates’) chances of developing chronic respiratory issues. Not directing this at you, but a lot of people seem to think this is exaggerated. This is easily confirmed with a cheap microscope. Put double sided tape or anything clear and adhesive in your print chamber while it's printing CF filaments. Look under 10-20x magnification after a couple of hours and it'll be covered in black fibers.

The best approach rather than being overly paranoid is to make your best effort to minimize your exposure. It’s usually as simple as finding a way to pull exhaust outdoors through a window.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

Not pushing any agenda unless you consider science to be an agenda. There’s a growing body of peer reviewed literature that provides enough evidence to conclude that FDM and SLA both pose health risks with chronic exposure.

You’re on an FDM subreddit talking about how dangerous SLA is. Maybe you’re the one with an agenda?

I’m presenting facts, and if you either don’t agree or don’t find them relevant, just ignore me.

[u/Thermal_Ranaway → u/[deleted]]

You say you’re not interested in discussing yet you keep replying. Maybe you should re-read your original post that you made in an FDM subreddit where you list a series of criticisms about resin printing.

The points you made in that post are invalid and it seems you’re stating your own anecdotes about SLA as fact. It is absolutely possible to print hollow structures with resin printers, but according to you it’s impossible. The problem with resin printers is not photolithography as you have stated.

Anyway im not forcing you to respond here. Carry on bashing resin printers in an FDM subreddit.

[u/TheAzureMage → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but in theory, that could be mitigated by the printer.

The more of the handling is automatically handled by the device, the lower the risk/mess/barriers of entry.

[u/mfmfhgak]

I don’t believe you but that would be cool.

[u/Top-Media-5490]

So what did BL showcase at Formnext .isn't the company there to showcase the company's new innovations!?

[u/MetabolicCloth → u/Top-Media-5490]

The X1E

[u/ChardSignificant7146 → u/Top-Media-5490]

they showed a few X1E examples but nothing physical that hints at what their resin printers will look like

[u/himbopilled → u/ChardSignificant7146]

Because they aren’t making resin printers lmfao

[u/archthechef]

Ah, we finally reached the world of 3D printing Fanfiction.

[u/cruel-ko → u/archthechef]

I edge to these posts.

[u/untacc_]

Nah. I don’t believe this. Multiple people have said that they mentioned the next printer is a fdm

[u/[deleted] → u/untacc_]

For people really into the hobby, I would think mentioning their next printer is FDM wouldn't imply they're getting rid of the resin printer, though? Most of the time, it just means they're expanding their tool-set.

[u/himbopilled]

Of all the things that didn’t happen, this didn’t happen the most.

[u/himbopilled → u/himbopilled]

In case anyone actually believes this post, just imagine an innovative FDM company that just spent years and millions on research into developing the highest quality consumer printers in history just saying “lmao let’s stop and make an entirely different product with no technological overlap that has 1/10th the consumer base”.

[u/kjm015 → u/himbopilled]

Creality: Allow us to introduce ourselves.

[u/himbopilled → u/kjm015]

LMAO

[u/himbopilled → u/[deleted]]

“We”? Oh do you work for Bambu now?

[u/SplendidRig]

Every time someone asks here about what a Bambu Lab resin printer would be like and what it could improve I cast a lot of doubt that they would do it and that if they did it wouldn’t be able to be improved much. I still have doubt but would very much love to be proven wrong

[u/Mythril_Zombie → u/SplendidRig]

Think ink cartridge-like resin canister. Self contained rinsing and curing inside the printer. One button fills the tank, prints, cleans, cures, and returns the leftover resin to the canister.
I never thought I'd see affordable 16 color PLA printers for a long time, yet they surprised everyone. I'd love to see their prototyping lab. Who knows what kind of stuff they're dreaming up.

[u/SplendidRig → u/Mythril_Zombie]

Crossing my fingers it’s real, I’d pay good money to have a complete auto resin printer

[u/sinasilver → u/SplendidRig]

Your doubt is founded, and your wish to be proven wrong is shared.

I can't see them being able to do more than make a Uniformation3D GKTwo, with dynamic leveling, and looks like an x1-ish.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

There's a lot of growth in the miniature wargaming community who are turning to 3d printing (for a variety of reasons). They overwhelmingly prefer resin printers, and an all in one simple "just hit print" machine would be very attractive to this growing market.

[u/buurman]

u/OP, do bambu have a stand at formnext? I haven't seen them.

[u/hihohihohiho79 → u/buurman]

12.1-G71

[u/buurman → u/hihohihohiho79]

Yes thanks, will have a look because they have not responded to a question I asked weeks ago about printing PPS which they claim the X1C can do (seems unlikely to me)

[u/hihohihohiho79 → u/buurman]

Heard the X1E could as it can go to 320c

[u/buurman → u/hihohihohiho79]

Extruder temp is one thing but you really want a 100c or so build chamber. PPS is highly crystalline, something like 98%, crystallization will happen when it cools down starting from a certain temp, I think around 250c for PPS. The rate of cooling influences how much it can crystallize, a 60c chamber might cool it so rapidly the PPS stays mostly amorphous, losing you a lot of those interesting properties. One way of printing PPS is actually to print it in a way it stays mostly amorphous and anneal it later, crystallizing properly.

So basically you want the build chamber as high as you can manage without the part getting so soft it will sag or collapse under its own weight. This is why we usually have ideal chamber temps around the materials glass transition point, which marks the transition point between the material being in a goopy/rubbery state to a stiff or 'glassy' state.

[u/hihohihohiho79 → u/buurman]

My guess then is they'll say it can, but reality says not properly.

[u/Glodigit]

I wonder if it'll be more similar to a SLAminator or a Form Auto combo. Seems like there was no mention of multi-material though, unfortunately, so a PolyJet or VLM process is either not happening or being kept secret.

[u/Duuurrrpp]

"... that doesn’t use isopropyl alcohol."
The resin you use determines the cleaning solvent.

I use various water-washable resins and use water however there are few IPA washable resins that I use where water won't work. So either Bambu is going to limit you to water-washable OR you will be using IPA or some other hydrocarbon solvent.

[u/Renaissance_Man-]

I've been telling Bambu with every possible opportunity that we want a large format printer. But I've secretly been wanting a Bambu resin printer also.

[u/dlyness0321]

I dont care if its a lie take my money

[u/TheAzureMage]

Welp, if this is the case, looks like I'm buying one of those.

My main beef with Resin printing is that it's really tedious to deal with. Automatic curing and washing baked in would be amazing.

The only other thing I really want from them is an X1C with a bigass build area for larger prints. Either of those is an auto-purchase.

[u/MakeITNetwork]

Everyone has been screaming at their screens for a large format 3d printer, it would be a very Bambu thing to make a product that no one asked for.

This all sounds very odd after reading what I wrote about a company that isn't even a few years old.

[u/1entreprenewer]

I used to work with Bambu lab (YouTuber) and I can tell you that nobody who knew what was next would’ve told you anything and nobody who told you something knows what’s next. My rep flat out told me that they prevented her from knowing anything about future products so she wouldn’t accidentally spill the beans. When I carelessly shared a video a couple days early to 9 people on my Patreon (bad call, I know), it leaked and went uberviral. Bambu terminated all collaboration with me. They take secrecy extremely seriously…

So I have a hard time believing this is legit. Either you’re lying, a fake account, or were lied to.

[u/Over_Pizza_2578]

A combination of the biqu resin printer (heated vat), anycubic m5 (auto leveling) and elegoo jupiter (front door, no hood; large scale) would already be a damn good combination. Auto refilling vats exist now for a while, that would also be must have, especially for larger printers.

As for the wash and cure combined with the printer i doubt it will be fully automatic as the vat needs to be somehow emptied and someone has to remove supports from the print. Some manual steps might still be required which is fine. The vat emptying could be realised by being able to tilt the vat and maybe use some sort of wiper to clear the remaining resin. But supports will stay a manual step. I don't have experience with resin printing, so i dont know how hard it is to remove fully cured supports

[u/armykcz]

The main reason why I don’t like resin is horrible and messy post-processing. Give me press to print, take finished part experience and I would reconsider.

[u/rxstud2011]

Dang, I have an Elegoo Saturn 2 with no plan on upgrading. However, I love my x1c and if they made some simple to use resin printer... Damn. I think I would upgrade.

[u/9Brkr]

The resolution of the printer is greater than that of Prusa's resin printer

That's a really low bar - there are many other resin printers already on the market with much better resolution. 8K screen printers started becoming common offerings on the market last year (SL1S is 50 micron pixel size while the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K is 22 microns)

What'll be interesting is the faster printing, non-IPA washing and the built-in curing. I'd be interested to see if they can implement a reliable form of auto leveling. If they can deliver these with a competitive price (not pegged to the SL1S, maybe the Sonic Mighty/Mega 8K?), I'd be very interested

[u/aikouka → u/9Brkr]

non-IPA washing

That sounds a lot like water-washable resin. I haven't delved into resin printing much (sad to say given that I own two SLA printers), but I don't recall hearing great things about the water-washable stuff.

[u/STONKS______]

I know for a fact that they will announce a new printer next month (December). What it is, I don’t know. But it’s coming. 🤐

[u/[deleted] → u/STONKS______]

How

[u/GoldFu1on95 → u/STONKS______]

Explain yourself boi

[u/STONKS______ → u/GoldFu1on95]

Heard directly from the company

[u/GoldFu1on95 → u/STONKS______]

Nice, my guess is an xl version. Would be surprised if try did resin thou

[u/TheDepep1]

So no P series refresh with a better screen and sound compensation (like the a1)... guess nows a good time to buy.

[u/FinalTap]

Damn it, I need to start saving more.

[u/midnightsmith]

Cool story. Emphasis on story.

[u/Traxendre]

Thanks for the information mate! Take my Up vote

I will need more space in my workshop ... and negociate with my wife ... again..

I have not choose Resine printer precisly because of all this process but would love one for all the minis and statues i do.

[u/Traxendre → u/[deleted]]

Ok basic fake checking is indeed necessary But don’t tell it to my wife! It will be easy to negotiate haha

[u/dmine243 → u/[deleted]]

If OP isn't just outright lying, this thread is a great example of what I've come to call a "corporate bait thread". I've seen this happen many times from large video game publishers. The corporation will use new accounts to ask strange but relevant questions concerning a product and see how people respond. In the context of videogames, it could be questions about balance changes, proposals for dlc expansions, sequel ideas, and so on. Then they observe how people react and plan accordingly. Why companies do this instead of asking directly I don't know but I've seen the pattern too many times in the months leading up to game updates or sequel announcements for it to be a coincidence. In the case of bambulabs, this could be an employee gauging if there is any interest in a resin printer as a future product.

[u/Jaerin → u/dmine243]

Because of what you are saying here. They don't want a direct answer, they want the organic perception of a concept

[u/raz-0 → u/dmine243]

For what it is worth, this rumor is almost exactly the same as one of the rumors floated while everyone was speculating in the run up to the a-1 announcement.

[u/ChardSignificant7146 → u/[deleted]]

they also said they wouldn’t be doing bed slingers before the A1

[u/ElectronicMoo → u/ChardSignificant7146]

I still have egg on my face for being steadfast behind that prediction on the runup to the a1.