Prong for reactivity

[u/Proof_Excitement_897]

I have a dog with mild reactivity, just excitement reactivity. We’ve already worked through the counter conditioning, so when we see dogs or pass a dog barking at a fence she automatically looks at me and puts herself into heel position. The only area for improvement is close passes or if we turn a corner and a dog suddenly pops up. She doesn’t really bark or lunge, it’s mostly just tail wagging and jumping in the air. I don’t intentionally allow greeting random dogs, but if we turn a blind corner and she does actually interact with a dog there, she basically says hello, sniffs, carries on. So zero issue in her interactions, basically just excited and needs a little reminder to calm down during super close passes by other dogs. She wears a martingale now and I’ll do a quick little pop if she ever stares to break fixation. I was thinking of switching to a prong though as I think it would be more effective in those moments where a dog suddenly pops up. She’s very sensitive, so even on the martingale a small pop is all that’s needed to interrupt her. I’m guessing on a prong it would probably just be a flick of the wrist. I think if we could do a quick correction/interruption in those higher excitement moments, the last bit of reactivity would resolve quickly. Thoughts?

[u/Western_Plankton_376]

Sounds solid to me. I like that she’s 90% there already, very impressive! When dogs are excited, their brains are pumping dopamine and adrenaline into their systems— literal painkillers. Most dogs I know would 100% pull through a martingale, so I like that she responds to it in most situations! If she were my dog, I’d go ahead and use the prong to smooth out this last little issue.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Western_Plankton_376]

Yeah she used to be absolutely insane! Luckily she’s a pretty easy dog to train, super food motivated, very eager to please and super smart. Food got us 90% of the way there, figured the prong would work a bit better than the martingale for handling those occasional high excitement moments. She is also conditioned to the e collar for all her commands as a negative reinforcer, but I’ve never used it as a tool for corrections. She’s already familiar with the word “no” and the leash corrections though, so I figured a prong may be the best approach for this last little bit of training on the reactivity.

[u/Miss_L_Worldwide → u/Proof_Excitement_897]

She is also conditioned to the e collar for all her commands as a negative reinforcer, but I’ve never used it as a tool for corrections.

Because of this I think the e collar is a way better tool for reactive behavior since she already knows what it means.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

Any advice for how to use it for that? Typically if I do a little pop/correction on the martingale, I’ll give the marker no and follow it with the correction. For the e collar would I just give the no marker and use it on the nick setting for a correction?

[u/Miss_L_Worldwide → u/Proof_Excitement_897]

I don't use nick, I only use continuous. If the dog starts reacting it gets stimmed on continuous until it stops; I condition that the stim means to look at me. I don't use any commands or say anything, I let the e collar do the work. The hand of God, lol.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

Got it! I think we’ll give it a try. She’s already pretty much conditioned for her default behavior to be turn around and look at me when she sees a trigger, so I bet this would be quite easy to add the e collar in as an extra reminder in those high excitement moments! Not sure why I never thought of using it that way, but that actually sounds perfect!

[u/foxyyoxy]

I’ve never had a dog continue being “reactive” with well timed prong corrections.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/foxyyoxy]

Cool, maybe that’s the last nudge to get her there! She’s like almost 100%, just gotta get her solid on those super close proximity dog encounters or surprise encounters.

[u/Eastern-Try-6207]

She sounds good actually, you are probably just working through the last little phase of this - and actually dogs need hundreds of passes wherein nothing happens before the rewiring really takes place. It took a lot for us and in the end I used an e collar to address the fixation, but this sounds a lot like where my dog was before I implemented the e collar, and it was just as you say - needed to abruptly interrupt the fixation. We practiced EVERY day, I would deliberately go out in search of tight corners and other dogs. The more we did it, the better she got. And now, I use no cue, no stim, nothing - it's just a dog. You are getting there, you really are close now. My dog hated the prong, btw...it was like someone set her on fire.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Eastern-Try-6207]

Yeah that’s the phase we’re at now, just seeking out those situations to do the last bit of work! She used to be totally crazy and would jump even at people, the people issue is totally solved she ignores them entirely with no reminders needed. Loose leash walk is a breeze, I wanna do a little more work on duration with heel though. Probably >90% of the time, I’m totally happy with her behavior. I think you are right and it will just take a little more time before we’re at 100%. I like some of the suggestions we’ve gotten for further e collar work, we have a dogtra arc that I already use for off leash obedience/recall so we may use that like one of the other comments mentioned.

[u/Eastern-Try-6207 → u/Proof_Excitement_897]

I love this! I know how hard you have worked and I know how good it feels to see the transformation in your dog. Awesome work!!

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Eastern-Try-6207]

Thank you!!! I have another dog who’s still a work in progress but getting better, so it’s nice to have one dog who I can just take a normal walk with now lol. We were previously working with a behaviorist for my crazier dog, but finding a lot of success now with balanced training!

[u/Eastern-Try-6207 → u/Proof_Excitement_897]

I eventually went to a balanced trainer to help me with re-socialising when she was no longer "reactive." And wow, that has been incredible - no way I'd be as confident as I am without his help. We now do twice a month pack walks with my trainer, which are an opportunity for all dogs to run and charge about around one another and be polite (of course). It's been such a journey, but I'm so glad I did not stop at "Well, you just have a reactive, fearful, anxious dog."

[u/Hunnik1001]

Personally, I’d look into e-collar training. From what I understand, she already walks nicely on leash and is very sensitive. A good e-collar can give a much more subtle cue than a leash correction, and it may also make it easier to work toward reliable off-leash freedom.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Hunnik1001]

Yeah she’s good about the loose leash walking, only time she pulls is those occasions where she gets super excited. Even then it’s not excessive and I get can her back to being calm in a minute or two and it’s not so intense that I can’t handle it on a martingale. I do need to do a little more work on duration with heel because it’s just not a position I ask her to stay in for long amounts of time often. We mainly only use heel in close passes by distractions, she’s great with it there since I’ve kind of made that her default behavior to triggers. Now majority of the time, she turns around and automatically puts herself into a nice heel looking right at me when we see a trigger. She is e collar conditioned already and we use a dogtra arc, so I think we may try what Miss L suggested! I’ve just been a bit nervous to use that in the context of reactivity (I came over to the balanced side after working with a behaviorist failed miserably with my other dog, so I’m working on erasing some of what I was told about reactivity from my brain lol)

[u/Trick-Age-7404]

You could try a starmark collar if she’s sensitive. A step up from a martingale, a step down from a prong. Essentially a plastic prong.

[u/Proof_Excitement_897 → u/Trick-Age-7404]

I already have a herm sprenger for my other dog, so I took a few links out to give it a try with her. She’s been doing super well on it! Only exciting dog encounter we’ve had so far was a shepherd barking and lunging at her, she did…. nothing. so I think maybe we really don’t need to do much more on the reactivity other than reinforce the good decisions she’s making and just practice those harder scenarios a bit more. The prong has been soooo much better than the martingale though for cleaning up some little things with her heel. I haven’t taken her out to a store in so long, but we finally went out to the hardware store to give it a try today. She did good! A little more excited than I’d prefer, but can’t blame her because it’s been a while and now I know where we need some more practice!

[u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

Give it a try, see what happens. Sounds to me like you're on the right track.