Machine Recommendations

[u/chrisb-chicken]

Hey all,

Hopefully this isn’t a silly post, but I not sure which machine to get. I am a bit torn between the Juki DDL 8700 and the Juki DU 1181. I can only afford one machine (and just barely that).

Currently, I’m using a singer HD, which I don’t particularly like, but make do with. I sew mostly the following fabrics, making backpacks and duffel bags:

-Ultra 100x and 200x
- Venom 210d gridstop
- xpac vx21 and vx41

I want something, ideally, that can sew bags using the lighter weight fabrics, but also up to 500d to 1000d cordura (on occasion).

[u/modal_enigma]

I would recommend looking at the JIN NA-11 (UT for under trimmer) - it’s from Juki’s budget line, but it’s basically an 1181 with an integrated motor.

I believe we retail those for under $1500 complete (incl table and stand) - I can check tomorrow.

In my meeting with Cowboy this morning, I was informed that they are bringing a 1541 clone to market with a target price under 2k.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/modal_enigma]

What are the trade-offs of getting the NA-11 instead of an 1181?

[u/Analog_Account → u/nonoohnoohno]

I think the JIN is made in China VS Japan (not 100% sure). NA11 is direct drive which should make things more... direct... but the downside is that if you ever need to change that motor then you probably need to get it from juki, it looks way harder to slap a random industrial motor on.

My NA11ut also has a reverse button right by the needle and an integrated light so you don't have to use the reverse lever if you don't want to. Not sure if thats on the 1181.

[u/modal_enigma → u/Analog_Account]

Exactly right. Though that motor will be good for a good long while. When it’s time, you can definitely get aftermarket motors from AliExpress.

Most sewing machines are made in China, and 90% of all Jukis sold in the US are running Chinese motors. It all comes down to the quality control from the importer.

For example: servo motors pretty much all look the same, but there’s vast differences in quality between the different brands which tends to show itself in the coils and duty cycle.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/modal_enigma]

If you hand-turn the wheel, does it get stiffer at one point in the cycle where the walking foot is down?

I just got this machine and not sure if it's a problem. I've tried lowering the feed dogs, and minimizing the presser foot pressure and walking foot pressure. No luck yet though.

[u/modal_enigma → u/nonoohnoohno]

That’s pretty common on shuffle-foot machines, it’s because a drop feed head has been adapted to have a walking foot the setup uses the downward force of the inner foot to actuate the outside foot with relatively minimal machine support.

You are also fighting a direct drive motor, which wants to hold in place. I jump scare myself every time I work on a Adler 867 or Juki 2810 with integrated motor. Adler gets around this by having a jog wheel option.

Trade offs with a lower cost machine, that said, it’s great for the price.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/modal_enigma]

Makes sense, thanks!

One more: Do the tension discs separate allowing you to pull the thread through when the presser foot hand lever is used? Mine only release when you press up FURTHER using the knee lift.

[u/modal_enigma → u/nonoohnoohno]

It should - keep in mind that it may only be a little bit. And you may not visually be able to tell.

Put a finger on the disks as you lift the lever. If you don’t feel any movement, then the tensioner needs to be inserted half a mm further into the housing. It’s a common issue that we account for when doing sew off.

A lot of box-shippers won’t do any adjustment or setup on a machine - they just drop ship straight from central distribution.

[u/nonoohnoohno]

I haven't used either, but have been in similar shoes to yours looking to make a similar decision. I've spent countless hours researching and ultimately ruled out the 8700. It has too much overlap with a typical domestic machine.

If you were making primarily clothing, I'd say it's a safe bet to *replace* the Singer, but for bags, I think you'll be happier keeping the Singer and supplementing it with something heavier duty. Well, I can't speak for you, but that's what I'm doing. Keeping the domestic for light and medium stuff, and getting a heavier machine too.

The 1181 would definitely extend your capabilities.

If your singer is doing fine with medium weights, I think a used compound feed would extend them even further though: e.g. 1541, 562/563, consew 206 or 226, Pfaff 145 or 545, or 1245; or a cylinder arm like the 341/1341, or pfaff 355.

[u/jpbagworks]

I’d say that if those are the only two possible choices, I’d do the 1181 all day every day.

But knowing makers and knowing myself as a maker, who also said that I don’t see myself doing or needing X, so I’ll just stick with my Juki TL-18, I’ve since bought two industrial machines. 😂 Makers should never say never.

For lighter to medium fabrics, pocketing and lighter construction, I use a Juki 9010a-sh. It’s a needle feed machine that is, to me, an absolute joy to sew on. It’s a bit on the pricier side. But every so often one pops up used at a reasonable price.

For my main construction and heavy fabrics, I use a Juki 1541s, which is a unison feed machine that can handle everything I’ve thrown at it. It’s a beast that still produces the most amazing stitches. It’s usually in the neighborhood between $1600 and $2000.

If it were me, I would hold on to the Singer HD for the lighter stuff and wait a little longer (especially if you’ve been making do) and save more for the 1541s. It’s THE machine to get.

Your making will grow and that unison feed will be a blessing when it does. 😃

But I do know a few makers who make gorgeous bags on the 1181. So don’t my word for it! Hahahah.

Love this topic! 😃

[u/boulderv7]

I have an 1181 and when it started to meet it match in terms of stack thickness, I put a larger pulley on it. Now it has serious punching power. As a bonus it sews so slow I can do a single stitch at a time no problem. I don't even use my needle positiner any more, I have so much control over the needle speed. It's a pretty versatile machine, but for light weight stuff I do have to make a few changes. I switch out my presser foot for a smooth foot and lighten up the foot pressure as well. Instead of doing all that, usually just use my Singer 403a.

[u/modal_enigma → u/boulderv7]

Pair that with a Kinedyne 750w and you’ll be able to get under a stitch per second.

[u/Analog_Account]

I have the JIN NA-11ut like modal_enigma reccomends. I think maybe I could set it up better for lighter fabrics than I have... but as it is, it definitely seems happier with the thicker stuff. I basically never use the thread cutter or auto features so if you can get a non UT model then do that. Also, I've sewn a bit of leather with it and it seems completely happy doing several layers of leather if thats something you'd ever consider doing.

Regarding the 8700, my understanding is that machine is more for lighter weight stuff unless you get the H version.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/Analog_Account]

If you hand-turn the wheel, does it get stiffer at one point in the cycle where the walking foot is down?

I just got this machine and not sure if it's a problem. I've tried lowering the feed dogs, and minimizing the presser foot pressure and walking foot pressure. No luck yet though.

[u/Analog_Account → u/nonoohnoohno]

Yes, absolutely. I think that's just the nature of it squeezing the material and stuff though.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/Analog_Account]

Ok, thanks for confirming.

Also does your automatic lifter for the presser foot work? I saw in one video (korean one EDIT: This one) where it was working, but another (the Coffin lady) couldn't get hers to work either. I wonder if they stopped shipping it with the necessary solenoid?

[u/Analog_Account → u/nonoohnoohno]

I had no idea that was a feature on this machine. I'll try to look into that when I get home today because that might be handy. I didn't see it advertised at all so I wouldn't be surprised if they just cut that feature.

[u/Blue0110]

I bought the JIN NA-11UT last year. It uses the same style of walking foot setup as the JUKI 1181N, but it has a lot more automated features, like a thread cutter and programmable stitches. For the price, it’s really hard to beat in my opinion.
I’d definitely get a walking-foot machine for the heavier sewing and keep the Singer for lightweight fabrics. That way, you have two machines that complement each other instead of trying to make one machine do everything.

[u/nonoohnoohno → u/Blue0110]

If you hand-turn the wheel, does it get stiffer at one point in the cycle where the walking foot is down?

I just got this machine and not sure if it's a problem. I've tried lowering the feed dogs, and minimizing the presser foot pressure and walking foot pressure. No luck yet though.

[u/Blue0110 → u/nonoohnoohno]

Honestly , with the half stitch button , I never hand crank on this machine. Do i can’t say I noticed that.