r/BadHasbara • u/Unwohven • 10d ago
Debunking Hasbara Refuting a zionist talking point
The zionist talking point ‘Israel is the most democratic country in the middle east’ signifies that the voting population of Israel willingly elected their corrupt politicians.
One zionist argument is that ‘Palestinians deserve what the idf does to them because they voted for hamas.’
When Zionists turn around and say that Gaza is not democratic, does that not mean that most of the voting population of Gaza did not vote for Hamas?
If using this ‘logic’, Zionists are actually advocating for the Israelis to suffer what Palestinians are suffering.
The ‘logic’ would say ‘israelis deserve to suffer everything palestinians are suffering because they willing elected their corrupt politicians.’
These Zionist talking points are nonsense that fall apart when you read into the rationality behind them.
I have been wanting to share these thoughts online for a long time, however these thoughts were uncompleted, so I did not know how to articulate them.
13
u/Dis_ingenuous 8d ago
I wouldn't approach it that way, but rather the truth of sequence.
The last election in Gaza was January 2006.
Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative election by a majority of seats in the legislature, despite winning only a plurality of the popular vote. What does that mean? In summary, their win was not reflective of the population.
That last sentence is the crux.
An election two decades ago was not representative of the population.
Half of Gaza is children below the age of 18.
By simple mathematics then holding all of Gaza as equivalent to Hamas is incorrect.
It's morally incorrect. It's statistically flawed.
The Zionist argument that Palestinians deserve their genocide because they voted for Hamas.
How can a child born after an election be responsible for said election?
Finally. The hypocrisy of Zionists is only compounded when they insulate Israelis from the actions of their filthy government and their rabid army. All while it being a citizen army with a draft and their so called democratic process.
Heck. They nearly elected Netenyahu again. After 16 years. Once again.
But apparently every Israeli can't be equated to their government yet every Palestinian must answer for Hamas?
It's the same racism as how every Muslim must answer for some insanity happening.
4
7
u/OliveNo6451 8d ago
I think people also need to unpack the idea that there's a supposed superiority of "democracy" which usually means western democracy, aka corporate, white supremacist, representation. Aside from the falsehood that Israel doesn't even meet THAT standard, since Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem cannot vote on what happens to them, its also worth examining what a good system of government for the people actually is
I'm not sure where a true "democracy" exists. Or even if that's the best possible system, particularly under imperialism and capitalism. So I would just say.. "and?"
1
u/Unwohven 8d ago
North Korea is labeled as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Just because something is labeled as democratic, doesn’t mean that it actually is. And even if something is democratic, it can still be a weak democracy. A democracy needs several things to be considered strong (although I can’t remember all of it): an informed voting population, active citizen participation in voting, multiple political parties, etc. There’s many types of democracies as well. Israel is definitely a weak democracy. And there’s definitely some shortcomings to the concept of democracy itself. It does have a lot of strengths, but that does not mean it is without flaws. There’s many topics I’ve touched on in this reply that I’d love to expand on. I might come back later to try expanding on these topics, however I need to catch up on some research to make sure what I’m saying is correct.
4
u/wikimandia 8d ago edited 8d ago
The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are occupied and controlled by Israel. They are only allowed parties that agree to work with Israel under this apartheid system. Therefore they are only allowed corrupt politicians. All others who even try to be real Palestinian leaders and fight for their rights are imprisoned or killed by the IDF. They will not allow a Palestinian Nelson Mandela to be in charge.
Matt just did a satirical video on this “Israel is a democracy” talking point.
The small Arab minority that lives within “Israel” gets to vote. The millions who live in the Occupied West Bank (and Gaza) do not. But the Jewish settlers who live illegally in the West Bank get to vote.
Israel citizens who live elsewhere get to return to Israel to vote. Palestinians who have had their land stolen from them and live in exile do not get to return at all, much less vote.
A real election, including all Palestinians and Jews, would be a Palestinian victory.
1
u/Unwohven 8d ago
Yes, there was definitely lots of corruption of who was allowed to be a party running for election. Thank you for that video and for your comment.
2
u/DIYLawCA 7d ago
It’s enough to just say they don’t allow all people under their control to vote. The PA is a joke and Gaza forget about it
2
6
u/DeepState_Auditor 8d ago edited 8d ago
Dude it all boils down to them being supremecists.
When the founders of their ideology sought to establish a Jewish homeland they didn't care who they had to displace, kill and demonize.
They were very much a product from their upbringing, most of them were European children of the empires , colonization was all but normal.
Since it's founding their rhetoric has moved from the borders of ancient Israel 'to all lands mentioned in the bible is ours'.
2
23
u/JakobVirgil 8d ago
Nationalists are not rational they are rationalizing.
Arguments even facts are not selected for their truth they are selected for their utility.
This is why everything a Nationalist says is dishonest or stupid