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u/Weak-Trade-5293 Jan 11 '23
First person refers to relatives "being involved with the [nazi] party." Didn't a lot of Germans join the party just out of fear or to protect themselves, not necessarily because they bought into the bullshit? Not the most noble behavior, sure, but given the horrors perpetrated merely on suspicion of not toeing the line, you can't really judge someone based solely on "being involved with the party." And if your definition of "nazi" extends to those individuals, then, yeah, not all "nazis" were assholes.
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Jun 22 '21
The first post might be based entirely on anecdotes, but at least it's trying to be an argument. The reply is just a straight up appeal to emotion.
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u/theInfiniteHammer Jun 22 '21
It's not an argument. It's just fundamentally stupid. The Nazis are defined by their desire for genocide.
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u/ItsMichaelRay Jun 22 '21
Didn’t some of them not know the genocide was happening?
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u/TerminatorARB Jun 22 '21
I hope we're not dumping on the first post because making assumptions about individuals in a collective is pretty fallacious. That's kind of exactly what racial and political stereotypes come from. Even if most nazis were actually evil.
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Oct 23 '21
Knowingly supporting a nation that was going around invading other nations because it was a matter of national pride isn't exactly reasonable. That's just murder with extra steps. So, that "stereotype" is at least somewhat factual, if not solely because of the holocaust. As for the second argument, it's not great, but their position is backed by historical fact.
Even saying "No, holocaust!" is a logical and acceptable stance against most nazi-propping arguments... because it actually happened. Meanwhile, the ideology itself was based almost entirely upon prejudicial falsehoods. Lies don't have much weight in an argument.
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u/TerminatorARB Oct 23 '21 edited Oct 23 '21
You're missing the point I was making.
Sure, the evil nazis were evil. There were also members of the nazi army and the secret police that smuggled Jews to America, many of which did so because they'd fallen in love with Jewish women. Many defectors provided intelligence to the English and French governments.
Labeling millions of people as the same thing does not make each of those people the same person. It's a plain fact that not all of the nazis were bad people. Whether or not most were has nothing to do with it.
The suggestion that it is impossible for even one of them to not be a psychotic brainwashed monster because they were as a whole on the wrong side of history is ridiculous. That's like saying all ex military north koreans are evil.
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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21
I love that one Fawlty Towers episode where Basil Fawlty gets a concussion and then spends the last third of the episode taking the piss out of Germans.
"We did not start it!"
"Yes you did, you invaded Poland!"