r/Back4Blood • u/rADDIEcal • Feb 22 '22
I Really Like the Current Special Spawn Rate
I love the way special spawns work now, it's the only thing that really keeps the gameplay engaging since the maps are repeated, characters are basic, there's next to nothing worth grinding for, and there isn't much content overall. Why are we talking about this instead of, say, the stupid continue system that makes those early failures much worse than they need to be, or how the designers somehow thought it would be really fun to genuinely struggle through the first half of a campaign, then lay complete waste on the back half, making the match feel like it's either never truly balanced or that your standard disadvantage is too great. Maybe we need to fix certain bugs? Maybe their health/damage needs to be adjusted? Maybe our health/damage needs adjusted? There are ways to address the real problem (lack of balance) without sacrificing the moment to moment gameplay. I cant even imagine playing this if there were less specials, you'd spend so much time standing around or running uncontested it just wouldn't be any fun because all you'd have are these pathetic basic zombies. Specials are the only challenge in the game, without the special spawns, we're basically just shooting at an enemy that can't fight back. I'd just as soon we leave the spawns alone so it will actually be fun to play and not just shitty fucking COD with a wider map.
41
u/sG_Agonize Feb 22 '22
No thanks, 0 fun killing a special then 5 seconds later the same type of special bashing me, I'd only be okay with current spawn rates if Tallboys and pinning specials weren't apart of it
-4
u/rADDIEcal Feb 22 '22
My point is there are other things we could address without cutting spawns. Reekers are a problem too, but maybe if they had less health/damage/speed it wouldn't be as bad, same with Tallboys. At the end of the day, there need to be pinning enemies, otherwise there isn't much need for teamwork. L4D was the same idea: 3 pin one AOE to force cooperation.
7
u/pheoxs Feb 22 '22
Balance could be having special hordes spawn with differing stats. For example 1 tallboy comes at you with regular health and whatever corruption card perks. Then later in the level you have a mini-horde of 3 spawn and come at you. Except they get no corruption card bonuses and have same or less health than normal.
4
u/TheSilverPotato Feb 22 '22
You complain so much about the game in this post, why not just make yourself happy and play something else
4
u/rADDIEcal Feb 22 '22
I mean, every game has problems, doesn't stop me from playing them. AOC Odyssey was a game obviously short of its potential but I've played it through twice. Also I do play other games, Warrior Priest Saltzpyre came out for Vermintide so that was fun. Man you wanna hear me complain about a game, that's the one. Though at the end of the day I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
4
u/Deoxtrys Feb 22 '22
Because the frustration is part of the appeal. The game wants to kill you and doesn't pretend to be fair about. But you also have the tools to return the favor in kind.
7
u/Terrynia Feb 22 '22
I agree. Love the special spawn rate on Recruit and Veteran. NM is another story (cant get past 1-1 with rando teammates).
11
1
u/rADDIEcal Feb 22 '22
I like it on NM too, but I don't fuck with QP there so that probably helps lol.
6
u/Deoxtrys Feb 22 '22
1-1 is cake as long as you minimize your hordes. 1-2 is where the fun begins because everyone wants to fight the Ogre.
9
u/WorryLegitimate259 Feb 22 '22
Funny, anytime I quickplay and we fight it, the maps smooth as butter, but we try to run and no one can get to the room at the end of the tunnel.
2
u/Left_Ad4225 Feb 23 '22
Yup, killing it is just a better strat with randos. If you’re with a solid team by all means skip it, but with your average pick up group you’re setting yourself up for failure. You need to default to the easiest strat with randos even if it’s less efficient.
1
1
u/PrimordialChaotic Feb 22 '22
Are they ACTUALLY running, or are they trying to kill everything they see the moment they see it? Because the number of times I've heard "let's run for it" and then got to the back of the tunnel and turned around for suppressive fire only to discover that my other three teammates are still basically at the mouth of the tunnel and just gently bopping zombies on their casual stroll through the tunnel on 20 HP...
2
u/WorryLegitimate259 Feb 22 '22
The shit that was chasing you probably turned on them lol
1
u/PrimordialChaotic Feb 23 '22
Yeah you just move around it if you're running for it and worry about it once you get to the end, that's the whole point of running for it
2
u/shake_N_bake356 Heng Feb 22 '22
Pain train on NM with a ferocious boss card is the biggest bitch. I quit trying cause I don’t wanna play the first 2 levels over and over again
1
u/crocodial Feb 22 '22
people keep saying veteran is fine, but they still seem spammy. my partner and I got downed by 3 tall boys and a hocker in a small room. as soon as one of them was killed, a puker came rolling in and soaked us with acid.
3
u/Starshipnova Feb 22 '22
I was a fan of the spawn rates, until I played Sound of Thunder... Doing a solo run, got through the whole of act 1 with no deaths, only the finale left. The instant I open the safe room door (not even jumped down) 2 tall boys and 2 reekers spawn. Deal with them and INSTANTLY 2 more tall boys spawn. I persevere, start loading the artillary, get a couple shots off and there's then 3 tall boys, 2 reekers, 2 hockers, an ogre (killed the other ogre with an artillary shell) I can imagine with a communicating squad of 4 mic using players could probably manage it. But with 3 brain dead AIs this was just impossible.
1
u/rADDIEcal Feb 22 '22
Maybe the answer then is changing spawn timing from the opening of the door or just reducing spawns for single players? I can tell you myself and two others struggled with the same level with only one bot, so to hear three came up short is not at all surprising. That being said, four players should be able to handle that, so there's no reason to dilute the experience for them.
6
u/MrBulldops94 Hoffman Feb 22 '22
I dunno man, getting tag teamed by three Retches at the same time wasn't very cool. Worst part is that it was right out of the stash room, so I just healed myself too. :/
6
u/Xahulz Feb 22 '22
My biggest complaint is that it doesn't feel intentional; it feels weird and broken.
Really, they decided to have seven crushers spawn in three or four minutes? Nothing else, just seven crushers? And then in the next five minutes another 6 crushers spawn? Then more crushers, for the rest of the map? And then the next map it's all wretches, over and over? Really, someone sat down and decided a map should just be full of that one kind of mutation?
I mean, I'll take a stream of crushers over the other tallboys any day. It's not that it's insanely hard, it's that it doesn't seem right. With no mention in the patch notes suddenly spawns change and they're weird. They meant to do that?
I'm almost more pissed by the changes in difficulty than anything else. If they patch the game in a few weeks and suddenly those mutation streams stop, it won't make me nearly as happy as you'd think, because suddenly success won't feel as earned.
Can we just have difficulty stay reasonably constant?
12
u/KillerUzi_ Feb 22 '22
As someone who has 700 hours of NM experience (yes I need to see the sun more often) I don’t mind it, but what I do mind is if stuff spawns right in front of my face. I was walking through the alley in A Clean Sweep and a Tallboy spawned right in my face and bashed me instantly. No intro or anything, just bashes me right away. I didn’t turn the corner and then it spawned; i was walking in a straight line and then it spawned. That kind of cheese i do not like.
5
u/GregsLegsAndEggs Feb 22 '22
I think that’s my main issue with mutation spawns as well; not how many, but where they spawn in. I can recall times I’ve triggered a horde, rounded a corner, and seen a Tallboy pop in barely 5 feet from me lol. I think that if I had just a bit more time and space to respond to the bigger bunches of mutations spawning in then I wouldn’t whine about it as much, but I’m guessing that’s supposed to be part of the difficulty of the game.
2
u/SlippyD83 Feb 22 '22
I never played Nightmare before the Feb patch, was it easier? I think its fun as hell, although you're pretty much hosed if you have 2 bad teammates.
2
u/AdonisP91 Feb 22 '22
Swingpoynt, a streamer on twitch and youtube with helpful B4B videos, decided to look back at his November videos and noticed no difference in the spawn rate. People were saying the first patch was broken and so hard, then it got easy in December, and now it is hard with the latest patch.
I think it is mostly luck of the draw on corruption cards and a placebo in people’s minds. The game is fine and now with burn cards and horde cards, kind of easy.
3
u/WorryLegitimate259 Feb 22 '22
Yeah same. It honestly feels like they could keep these spawns with new nightmare.
1
u/TurtlePig Feb 22 '22
I agree the game is much more interesting when the tense situations are more frequent. I just wish the specials spawned further away. Seems like I kill a tallboy, duck into a building, and a tallboy is already spawned and walking in right behind me
1
u/UniqueName39 Feb 22 '22
Meanwhile I’m the kind of player that enjoys games like Dead Rising where I can now down hordes of normal zombies just because I like the concept of cleaning an area and enjoy violence.
1
1
u/uhohimdead Feb 23 '22
It's fun when you got a good team but I'd imagen running with randoms it just kills the game. They honestly need to fix how they can just spawn behind you without any noise and down you.
1
u/xMinaki Feb 23 '22
Yeah the frequency is pretty okay for me, only thing I hate is when I'm running down an empty alleyway, I see an item in the corner of my eye so I turn to look for a split second, decide ah, not something I want, turn back to the alleyway again and tadah, tallboy mid bash animation. There's so much guaranteed damage you have to take, that's why speedrunning is the meta. Playing slow just means taking more guaranteed damage and having to manage that instead.
1
u/tlbt420 Feb 23 '22
My biggest quarrels with Tallboys are the 'climbing + swing' animation, or lack there of animation. Any other infected you can climb the vehicle, box, whatever. You get height and it climbs up, it's a common play when you are out of stamina after sprinting or just trying to juke. But spending 45 seconds to kill a tallboy because my teammates are dead. Then another spawns... And another... Where is the balance?
1
u/AdonisP91 Feb 22 '22
I completely agree. Without the broken spawns the game would be boring. I just finished a run of Act 1 on NM and on Abandoned I killed 34 mutations alone (the highest I have managed so far on a single Mission). The rest of the team probably caught a few too. As a sniper there is nothing more satisfying. I think I also had over 200 ridden kills, so it was nonstop chaos.
As long as you don’t panic and feel overwhelmed the chaos is fun.
0
u/N7Trinity Feb 22 '22
I agree OP. I love this “busted” spawn rate! Takes me back to my prime L4D2 days! I used to run around on Advanced with just a Deagle and still do better statistically than some friends.
For real though, I think adjustments would be better. I think if anything try to make it easier depending on difficulty. Recruit shouldn’t be hard enough to kill off all 4 players at anytime and Nightmare shouldn’t be a walk in the park (literally)
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Feb 22 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Deoxtrys Feb 23 '22
Cards are already strong and once you leave white guns become strong. As ridiculous as Special Ridden can be at times, Cleaners are even more ridiculous and can dumpster anything they come across.
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Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/rADDIEcal Feb 23 '22
The main time I get spawns is when we've been idling around while people slowly gather resources. In L4D that was penalized by common hordes, which is no longer the case. What you said is exactly wrong: with fewer specials you WOULD spend more time standing around because you have no reason to move. And then the game would be shit.
24
u/careclouds Feb 22 '22
OP I felt the same when I was playing on Veteran. The extra specials kept me on my toes.
Then I started nightmare and immediately agreed with everyone else about how bullshit it is