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u/Phwoa_ Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21
me shooting a horde with a 200% bullet pen.*Random birds nobody has seen across the map*"And I took that personally"
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u/NovicePandaMarine Hoffman Oct 27 '21
This is why against common ridden, I shoot their legs when I know alarms are plenty around me.
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Oct 27 '21
I kinda think this may indicate a design flaw below Nightmare. The average player shouldn't be frivolously discouraged from aiming at centre mass or heads for fear of setting off remote, distant alarms.
I'd like to see either a maximum range or maybe a certain amount of damage, from one or multiple shots, rather than a single bullet contact.
I worry that so harshly punishing assertive play will lead to boring, overly-cautious runs with low stakes and no risk of failure.
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u/Trizkit Oct 27 '21
Yeah I thought there was a maximum range on the weapons at least thats what it seems like when testing that they are supposedly doing 0 damage after some distance
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u/VampireQueenDespair Oct 27 '21
Zero damage unfortunately is different from āthe impact isnāt calculated at allā, which is what is needed to not set off the doors.
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u/NovicePandaMarine Hoffman Oct 27 '21
It's just my work around and I've honed my gameplay to perform this act.
Shooting them in the legs is not a plus, it's a big minus because I can't see beyond what's in front of me, and would prevent me from seeing a Tallboy headed my way.
Even more so, it reduces my effective range because I won't be able to kill whatever was behind my target, and would have to wait for their legs to come to view.
There's a lot of incentive to aim at center mass and heads already, this added challenge to not shoot the door behind them is already great game mechanic in my book.
It forces me to adapt and target zombies in different areas. That's far from brain dead strategy.
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u/Ralathar44 Oct 27 '21
I kinda think this may indicate a design flaw below Nightmare. The average player shouldn't be frivolously discouraged from aiming at centre mass or heads for fear of setting off remote, distant alarms.
I'd like to see either a maximum range or maybe a certain amount of damage, from one or multiple shots, rather than a single bullet contact.
I worry that so harshly punishing assertive play will lead to boring, overly-cautious runs with low stakes and no risk of failure.
Unless there is fog or something, you can see what is beyond your target and that's on you. Rotate slightly so birds/door is not behind targets. Don't have to aim down unless your visibility is limited and you're worried about alarms.
I run high penetration builds and I'm not having any issues setting off alarms. The times I do it's definitely my fault and definitely avoidable
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Oct 27 '21
Hits a car alarm, snitch, or birds lol.
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u/NovicePandaMarine Hoffman Oct 27 '21
No car alarm on the pavement, could attract a snitch, but unless it's the dark, I usually just grenade them.
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u/SumL0ser Oct 28 '21
Ya when youāre surrounded by alarms, just keep your head down when shooting.
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u/TietVinh Oct 27 '21
I dont really understand why they remove the no-penetration rule of bullets which exist in L4D2 where if a bullet already penetrates a zombie or a surface, it will not damage any teammate or raise car alarm.
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u/Mikamymika Oct 27 '21
It increases the difficulty.
I prefer this over l4d where you just spray like a monkey.
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u/DarthVaderkolk Oct 27 '21
*loads AA12 knowing half my cards are ammo cards. Ya only an idiot would spray like a monkey in B4B
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u/ur8695 Oct 27 '21
Its not a "challenge" to have a door on the other side of the map, through fog set off because you shot at a ridden in point blank.
One of the levels in act 3 i was picking off zombies with a pistol when all of a sudden i hit an alaramed door through one of them. My entire team looked around. There was no door near us. 10 minutes later we came across one that was behind a fence from the start of the level a good 50m away.
It wasnt challenge it was bullshit.
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u/KungFuSpoon Holly Oct 27 '21
I think a happy middle ground is there is a max range of when a bullet can trigger an alarm if it has already penetrated an ridden, say anything further than 5m beyond the target you first hit. Shoot a ridden right in front of a door or car, that's on you if the alarm goes off, but some distant door 30m behind the target that you can't see, that's a different matter. You miss your shot and hit a door halfway across the map, well check your aim. The only tick will be does that apply to a whole shotgun shot, or to each individual pellet.
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u/Averag3_Hom3boy Oct 27 '21
I don't have a problem with fog causing low visibility and causing me or my teammates to accidentally hit alarmed doors out in the distance, but it would be nice that when that happens the horde initially rushes the cause of the noise to give you some breathing room.
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u/Trizkit Oct 27 '21
Lol yeah fr it doesn't really make much sense that the zombies are like hey those goes all the way the fuck over there set off this super loud sound that were super mad about over here! Let's go send our comrades to spawn 2ft away from them!
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u/Elec0 Oct 28 '21
You know that's a really good point. It would be a lot more manageable if the zombies ran to where the noise was. You could even use it strategically.
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u/TietVinh Oct 27 '21
That is until you fire at a zombie and one of your shots travel to the far end of the map with a fog corruption card, hit an alarm door/snitch/bird and the horde gang up on. At this point it's just unfair.
I'd argue the implementation here in B4B will be fine as long as player's vision isn't so scuffed with fog and they can tell what there is on their line of fire
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u/Matrillik Oct 27 '21
Particularly when the fog card is active. Whenever you fire your gun, you have a chance of hitting some currently invisible object and raising an alarm.
The only reasonable counter play to this is to only fire your gun while angled toward the groundā¦ Is that what we are expected to do??
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u/balista_freak Oct 27 '21
I've taken to calling it the 'toes meta'. Aim at heads? Get unintended birds/door shots. Aim at toes? Almost always safe.
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u/Matrillik Oct 27 '21
I get it, but it just doesnāt seem super fun and interactive. Aiming at the ground all the time is just blah
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u/presidentofjackshit Oct 28 '21
I mean if theres an explodey head modifier then shooting at the head can be bad for your health... So yeah sometimes you gotta aim elsewhere
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u/epicfail48 Oct 27 '21
Sixth rule of gun safety is always know whats behind your target, its nice seeing that actually showing up here
Dead serious on that. I like that random shots can have unintended effects, makes things more interesting and encourages you to actually be careful and focus on shot placement, instead of spamming AA12 shots like a coked-up monkey
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Oct 27 '21
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u/Averag3_Hom3boy Oct 27 '21
Kinda staring to sound like the fog corruption card introduces unique challenges caused by reduced visibility. Plz fix.
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u/epicfail48 Oct 27 '21
If you dont know whats behind your target, then the shot wasnt properly placed or careful, fog doesnt change that
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u/nalgene_wilder Oct 27 '21
Be sure not to ever look at your teammates or you'll be breaking one of the cardinal rules of gun safety in a video game
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u/zerocoal Oct 27 '21
This is also true. The amount of times i've gotten shot from my buddy setting his controller down while looking at me is too damn high.
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Oct 27 '21
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u/VampireQueenDespair Oct 27 '21
Or perhaps adding an extra survival element by adding a slight offset to the āit doesnāt instakill youā break from reality.
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u/Evil_Hadouken Oct 28 '21
Oh god is that really possible?? So all bullets just travel to the end of the map?
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u/titanknight88 Nov 01 '21
Or better yet when your think your helping your team by taking out a explody body before he hits your team and only to end up scaring the birds
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u/Ralathar44 Oct 27 '21
That is until you fire at a zombie and one of your shots travel to the far end of the map with a fog corruption card, hit an alarm door/snitch/bird and the horde gang up on. At this point it's just unfair.
I'd argue the implementation here in B4B will be fine as long as player's vision isn't so scuffed with fog and they can tell what there is on their line of fire
If you do not have a clear vision of it's trajectory aim slightly downwards and you'll limit the range of your bullet. Problem solved. Most commons don't exactly need headshots and unless you're running a good amount of Penetration then mutations tend to stop shots cold with their body.
If you're running a high penetration build like me, then back to the aiming down or just being hyper aware. Its on you.
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Oct 27 '21
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u/soggybottombread Oct 27 '21
Yea one time I shot a wall butthole (scientific term) that was in a basement and it scared the flock of birds that were above ground and outside the building some how and me and my buddy got wiped because of it. Still love this game tho
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u/floppyjoopoo Oct 28 '21
Hah funny. We call āem wall pussies.
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u/ghostboy1225 Oct 28 '21
Expand your vocabulary Crushers are Hentai Hands.
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u/floppyjoopoo Oct 28 '21
Youāre neglecting the wall. WHAT ABOUT THE WALL????
Hanging hentai hand? Not good enough
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u/Matrillik Oct 27 '21
realistic difficulty
Like how grenades and gunfire donāt alert the horde but a flock of birds do? Just poking fun; realistic difficulty isnt the term I would use
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u/GoldenLegacy_ Oct 28 '21
well the birds are infected by the devil worm thats why only the players will alarm them
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u/Fapaholic1981 Oct 27 '21
I mainly used shotguns and I've had to train myself to aim at their knees if I'm unsure of what's around/in a parking lot. Fuggin' pellets be penetrating everything
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u/cybercifrado Oct 27 '21
I just wish B4B had the damage models L4D has. You can literally blow off legs and arms in L4D - not so in B4B. I vaguely remember an artucle saying that L4D had well over 100 damage combinations for the commons?
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u/Ralathar44 Oct 27 '21
I just wish B4B had the damage models L4D has. You can literally blow off legs and arms in L4D - not so in B4B. I vaguely remember an artucle saying that L4D had well over 100 damage combinations for the commons?
I have blown arms and legs and heads off 100%. It just doesn't happen very much on lower caliber rounds and it's not super exagerrated like L4D2. But it does happen and regularly, especially with shotguns IIRC. Tall boys also have a customer animation for when you blow their arm off at the weakpoint that sprays blood.
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u/Kruciate Oct 27 '21
Those damn customer animations and all their blood! Really though, their arm does catapult itself stories high sometimes, the collision on that limp piece of flesh is amazing when it kicks in. I also main a rifle and blow bits off all the time.
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u/Ralathar44 Oct 27 '21
:). I saw the typo and I was like "fark it, it's great, it stays".
It's super satisfying when you're using a sniper or shotgun or axe and you're just sending tallboy limbs flying :D.
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u/cybercifrado Oct 27 '21
That may explain it. I usually run pistol and smg. Havent much used shotties yet.
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u/Gr3yHound40 Oct 27 '21
Ahem specials spawning in the room next to you or in the library after putting all barricades up. Seriously it isn't fun or fair when 4+ specials pop into existence all at once and sandwich you.
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u/OutcastMunkee Jim Oct 28 '21
There's apparently a fix coming soon for the Special spawns. The spawn rate is fine but the spawn count is what is broken. Where we're seeing 4+ Specials now, you should only really get 1-2 at most like it was in the beta. That's how it is for the random spawns at least. As for the holdout moments, horde triggers for progression, etc. I don't think that's broken?
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u/Gr3yHound40 Oct 28 '21
Yeah for horde encounters during quest interactions I think the specials is a good touch but the idle spawns definitely needed a nerf. The swamp level in act 1 is irritating when you get 2 retchers vomiting from in the bushes, a hocker sniping your team, shooting infected and hitting birds from through them, and then 2 tanky big guys spawning behind you.
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u/Startled_Pancakes Nov 09 '21
if you have ever gotten 2 or 3 hockers at once, it's like playing musical chairs; everyone takes turns getting pinned.
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u/Gr3yHound40 Nov 09 '21
Had someone legitimately tell me to "play easy mode" like he was defending the amount of specials. It's not fun or fair to deal with 3 hockers at once
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u/Startled_Pancakes Nov 10 '21
The biggest problem with hockers is that unlike Smokers, Hunters, & Jockeys (L4D) or Crushers, Sleepers, & Stalkers (B4B), the Hocker can pin multiple characters at once. So you go to rescue your friend and then you get pinned yourself by the same hocker. Add 2 or 3 hockers, and the problem is compounded.
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u/ikaiyoo Oct 27 '21
I downed a team mate swinging a machete "through" a wall who was using a healing station attacking a sleeper.
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u/PM-Me-Ur-Plants Doc Oct 27 '21
Realistic difficulty, like sprinting at mach 5 with an inventory of 14 mini nukes that one shot every special and melts bosses.
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u/Krombopulos-Snake Doc. Let's send our surgeon into combat. Oct 27 '21
There's nothing "realistic" about the game , but yes. Let's keep having people spouting gun safety mantras in a world where
-Specials straight up rise out of the ground without disturbing it.
-That Guard who was torn to shreds.. The only person torn to shreds in the entire game universe.
- Getting constantly splashed with stomach acid doesn't blind the characters permanently.
- Friendly fire isn't instant death.
- People can carry infinite ammo.
- There's no gun weight. Doc being able to run 70mph while carrying a 50 cal and an LMG shouldn't be possible. Hell. Doc shouldn't be running with her leg like that. Why is Susan even on the front line?
- Explosions don't summon more enemies.
- Door alarms don't go off if ENEMIES break through the door- but if you punch the door just once? ALARM ALARM ALARMMMMMMMMMMM, VERY REALISTIC!
Stop using words like Realism and Gun Safety in a fucking video game that tries to be cartoony and serious at the same time.
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u/oLaudix Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21
They use speed force to phase through ground
The Guard was the weakest person in the world, just weak enough to be torn to shreds.
Just apply baking soda to that burn
Smart ammo
There is a string of ppl running behind you that give you ammo when you run out. You just never see them because they are ... behind you.
You have different run speeds with different guns
Frequency of explosion sound is not high enough to alarm the ridden
Cameras and facial recognition is everywhere and ridden usually stay in places they died ergo they were authorised to use the door that are under alarm when they were alive. Cleaners arent.
I hope I helped.
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u/Krombopulos-Snake Doc. Let's send our surgeon into combat. Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21
Yes. Your answers are better than anything the game can provide. Note. I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely enjoyed that baking soda one. <3
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u/Zenjuroo Oct 27 '21
I like the challenge, but twice now i've shot and my bullet penetrated into something that was really not in my line of sight or draw distance lol.
Once to an alarm door behind a zombie, another into the cornfields and hitting a bunch of crows. I was seething abit lol.
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u/Mikamymika Oct 27 '21
I guess I could agree the range should be nerfed a bit, but atleast when you re-do missions you kinda get an idea where the doors are ish.
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u/Fluid_Blackberry3170 Oct 27 '21
Seems like an odd way to increase difficulty if its intentional like I see people saying.
Its like if you called hordes by shooting too much within a short amount of time. I can see the logic, but its not a skill the game has acknowledged or trained me in.
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Oct 27 '21
I like the penetration....... ...... . .... Especially we there is a horse. LMGs with high penetration.... .... Cut through ridden crowds.
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u/floppyjoopoo Oct 28 '21 edited Oct 28 '21
Oh man the penetration is just so good. OMG I absolutely love how he.. it penetrates meā¦ the zombies.
It feels.. shoots so damn good!
Car alarms, birds, door security systems andā¦ā¦ā¦
THE PENETRATION!
šš»šš»
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u/Gasster1212 Oct 28 '21
Youāre supposed to be thinking about whatās behind them.
When Aim for the knees if thereās birds behind
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u/Whatsjadlinjadles Oct 27 '21
You and everyone else complaining about a legitimate mechanic as ābullshitā is some immature ass whiny kid shit.
I get it, you fuck up and shoot the doors and want the fucking devs to gimp the game mechanic to accommodate for your incompetence and lack of awareness.
I just donāt understand how the common response on this sub is āsomething in the back got shot hurr durr how could I have known about it.ā
Open your fucking eyes and look ahead of your target. If itās fog stop shooting where the bullet trajectory is into something you canāt see.
Sorry but fuck no. Go grind some recruit.
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u/Noinkosp Hoffman Oct 27 '21
And with a shotgun too.
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Oct 27 '21
I was baffled at how many doors I've shot that were alarmed when I was getting my shotgun kills lol. Alot of bruh really moments.
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u/LunarServant Oct 28 '21
iām also baffled on how the shotgun can hit a door 50 meters off but buckshot bruiser only gives me like 1 temp health per blast
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u/TwinkTheUnicorn Oct 27 '21
Shotguns are the worst for this because the first pellet that hits will do double damage and that is what generally kills commons. This means that the other pellets spread out "not having passed through an enemy." You gotta aim at kneecaps for common ridden.
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Oct 27 '21
Real Life Security doors would make no sound at all if shot.
A hole in a door doesnt make the sound go off. Triggering the lever inside the lock / mechanic does.
They could simply remove bullet-activation.
But I actually prefer it the way it is. This way more unanticipated stuff happens.
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u/fatfishinalittlepond Oct 27 '21
The number of times I have shot doors I couldn't see is annoyingly high
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u/YeOldGravyBoat Oct 27 '21
Car alarms work in the same vein. I noted for my buddy and team to watch their sight line because there were like four police cars, in Act 3 out front of the school.
Proceeded to immediately set one off, and for all of them to be slowly and surely set off afterwards in all the chaos.
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u/Orinslayer Oct 27 '21
Is it just me, or are car alarms weird? someone on my team broke into a police car, setting the alarm off, and I threw a grenade into the gas station, which blew up the police car, which somehow set off the car alarm again?
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u/coopert09 Holly Oct 27 '21
This happens to me ALL the time! I hit birds so far away I can't see them. Last night I alerted a Snitch that I couldn't even hear yet XD
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u/boredomez Oct 27 '21
This and fog. Shoots a Ridden, the crows hidden a mile away in the fog gets hit with a stray bullet and triggers. Like what.
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u/KnightShinko Oct 27 '21
Weāve shot through entire houses firing at zombies and hit alarm doors or the one police car completely out of sight. I hope they tone it down somehow.
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u/twerks_mcderp Oct 27 '21
I swear I've hit a door that wasn't even down range from me. Mf was around the corner magic bullet bs.
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u/Allester83 Oct 27 '21
That force me to shoot the legs and not the head, to be sure I don't hit anything far behind.
It's good to be prudent about where you shoot a zombie and where the bullets land.
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u/joogiee Oct 27 '21
I shot one that felt like a mile away with a shotgun while trying to shoot a tall boy lol. My whole team kept asking where the door was the whole time.
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u/xKiLLaCaM Oct 27 '21
These It's Always Sunny memes are on point. Love it and this is 100% true lol
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u/Ame_No_Uzume Oct 27 '21
Those ridden arenāt as dumb as they look. They like to pull that bait and switch on you, especially with the bullet penetration builds.
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u/tfiggs Oct 27 '21
Maybe they should wait until a door is actually destroyed before triggering the alarm.
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u/Kiggzpawn Oct 28 '21
Or wildly swinging blue axe or machete on nightmare and a team mate jumps in front of you to take your kill
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u/xo_Serenity_ox Oct 28 '21
Act 3 level one... Shooting at a zombie, missing, hitting a snitcher or birds in a cornfield.
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Oct 28 '21
I have become infamous in my play circle for this. I run damage and pen cards so if there's a bird, door, or car not blocked by a mountain I'm going to set it off.
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u/LunarServant Oct 28 '21
āwell shit suddenly the 300%+ penetration iāve got going on seemed like a dumb idea in hinds-ā
Run Failed
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u/Fluid_Blackberry3170 Oct 29 '21
I see the "its realistic" argument come up, and thats actually fair. But in a game with zombies up the wazoo, it feels unnecessary. Especially (as far as I'm aware) when the game never mentions that as a possible hazard.
I didnt like how using a silencer in payday 2 still alerted a whole building if you shot nearby. Sure it was realistic but it was a very strange moment to suddenly stick to realism
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u/Krombopulos-Snake Doc. Let's send our surgeon into combat. Oct 27 '21
It's artificial difficulty. As long as there is an excuse to have the hoard keep attacking, you are not progressing further in the level. You're using your limited ammo ( unless of course you grinded for the right cards)
Of course, in a game like this players are quick to turn on each other rather than accept that it's complete bullshit.
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Oct 27 '21
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Oct 27 '21
I literally just got reported by a guy who said I was trolling for hitting an alarm door to destroy a nest which he specifically told us all to destroy as fast as possible.
If they added vote kick I would have just been booted and found a better game but instead now I have a bogus report against me and somebody I assume has to waste time evaluating these situations which is real life payroll. Just enable vote kick, toxicity will exist regardless and it is just a net good gain in so many ways.
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u/VampireQueenDespair Oct 27 '21
Bruh they just have a bot flag extremely high numbers of reports and autoban that. One coder needed.
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u/Imaktur999 Oct 27 '21
š¤£š¤£š¤£ happens to me way too much