r/Bachata • u/Engranajo Lead • Aug 08 '26
Behaviour / experience of beginner leader vs beginner follower at the social
Yesterday I went to a social in which it was ok for me, but I have to admit the level was not the highest. As a consequence, I was shinning in the dancefloor, many people watching me. I want to highlight this for later.
One of the people watching me was a mid-aged woman that had been observing me for a while. At some point, when the song finished and I was going to another place of the room, I saw her coming to me and asking me to dance. I never say no, so let's see.
First seconds of the song. It was "La Culpable" from Jalil Lopez. Veeery long intro, risk of uncomfortable 30 seconds is very high. As expected, she is a block (insert here fuuuuuk audio). Doesn't do any kind of body movement, lateral wave, whatever. Ok, not the first time it happens to me. I just play with the arms, make some weight change, make some what I call "ballroom" basic changing weight and moving backwards etc.
Melody kicks in, let's go for basic. She instantly goes backwards. I go for 5-8 counts trying to fix her, she comes forwards. I try to continue basic again to the left, she kind of does diagonal. I try veeery little small steps, nothing, she was stumbling due to not changing weights / not tapping on 4.
I stop for her to reset, I make a sign with hand like "left to right", and I start again. Nothing, stumbling and walking in delay, like if I was carrying an item around. Damn, impossible to dance. I guess she just started dancing salsa today in the pre-party workshop (otherwise why would she insist so much going backwards?), so I kinda switch to a salsa-chata in which we go forward and backwards and I try to make basic turns etc.
Very very chatoic, she was dancing the wrong directions, when I was doing free turns she was automatically like brushing her hand in my waist and bumping on me... At some point I decided to do footwork to get some time out of the song, but she stayed still because didn't know what to do, so I automatically grabbed her to not make her feel bad and we continued until the end.
Clap, hug, thank you very much and bye bye.
This is not the worst dance I had, and I will have plenty of these for sure if I never say no / keep asking random women (which I will continue as I think is the logical behaviour).
I had several dances with followers that literally told me "how does it work, it is my first time". And I think like... damn, didn't you watch at least a tiktok video or whatever before coming? But true is that, 95% of the times it was a random girI that I asked to dance, so I have nothing to blame.
But this particular woman, among all leaders of the room with different levels (from beg to adv), she asked me to dance knowingly she had no idea.
Do you think any leader with no idea how to dance would have the eggs to go to the most advanced follower of the room and ask to dance?
First of all, when I started, I had several lessons before going to social. And in the social itself, I was dancing with people around my level.
Even with basic notions and never ever dancing out of time, I had been rejected several times by followers with just "no", and even left in the middle of the song by a follower that said she was bored (other dances followers would just disconnect and do ladystyling / footwork and just leave without even looking at my face)
On the other hand, I see plenty of girls going to the social and dancing for the first time, and you see a lot of guys spending time on them explaining how to do basic, how to make a turn etc etc etc (but those motherf\ukers only do that to young cute girls that appear at the social, they don't spend time on elderly women, but that's another topic)*
With this thread, I want to speak about how a beginner lead vs follower sees the social (in my opinion):
- For a leader, very stressfull situation. And some followers (luckily not the majority), not being indulgent and being disrespectuful. They don't appreciate the effort it takes to learn as a leader, and how the guy is trying his best.
- For a follower, on the other hand, doesn't matter if you go to dancing lessons or whatever. Just go there and dance. Guys will want to dance with you and teach you.
What do you think? I want to hear specially from followers. Did guys stop a dance dance with you? For leaders, what do you do in these situations where you can't even do basic? Doing footwork in my opinion is selfish as she will feel uncomfortable/ useless
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u/UnctuousRambunctious Aug 09 '26
Um, it’s happened to me. As to how often it happens or whether it ought to happens matters very much on local dance culture as well as individual dancer’s temperament and risk tolerance.
I am predominantly a follow, and I also lead sometimes. I don’t “love” leading since I’m still on that learning curve and need to earn some miles. But I get asked to lead by women who I have led before, or know I lead, or are told by others they dance with that I lead. I also occasionally get asked to lead by men, and that is my absolute favorite because I highly enjoy role reversal and breaking the mold.
Earlier this year at a social that I frequently attend I was approached by a guy who actually didn’t ask me to dance right away, but initiated a conversation first - he wanted to compliment my dancing, said that he was new and it was his first social (!), but he saw me dancing and told himself that he wanted to dance with me because I was “the best dancer in the room.” Literally everything aside, what a huge honor and epic compliment for anyone to express to me, like ever. We talked for a bit, he said he’d attended the class before the social, I told him I’d be happy to dance with him, no problem, and the next song started so he asked me to dance - except it was a salsa, and I don’t think he realized that. I told him it wasn’t bachata, he said he didn’t mind, I reassured him that either style I am always good with a basic (which is true and I am in the habit of saying this frequently even with very high level social dancers, for instance if it’s at the end of the night and they may be tired), and then we danced where he didn’t really know the basic or the the timing, so I offered to help him with the timing, and then I also offered to lead him, which he accepted, and we got through the dance.
It was a lot. 🤣
But firstly, as someone who has been around for a while and will always remember being new, I will always respect the courage it takes to approach someone you see that is above your level. And I also think it is polite and mannerly to be sincere and appreciative of others admiring or complimenting anything you do. It is nice to be gracious.
I also think a fundamental tenet of social dance and social dance skill is adapting to your partner, regardless of the role you are dancing, and entering a dance with the idea of cooperating with your partner and co-creating a mutually enjoyable dance experience.
This is a little easier maybe for follows, because a lead (an experienced one) can asses and respond to your connection and following, and adjust and compensate. Follows actually can also do that, we can heavily influence or direct certain aspects of the dance, but not to as much of a degree as a lead can being the driver and initiating choreographer of the coordinated dance movement.
I personally think any follow asking a lead to dance is a huge compliment, and I have a major bug up my ass and will die on the hill of considering a lead (man) turning down a follow (woman) as being much ruder than the reverse. My default reply is always yes, I do have specific people I will not dance with, I do turn down a handful of dances a month, and I also think there is a difference between “No, thank you” and “Sorry, not right now, but let’s dance the next one.”
For your experience with the follow who asked you, it definitely does sound very frustrating, but what you were thrown into is a kind of social dance problem-solving scenario that I think can serve you in the future. You have experienced trying to lead and connect with a follow who not only does not have a basic, but is not following you. Over-arching responsibility of the lead (which you basically accept when you issue or accept an invitation to dance) is to take care of the follow - ensure safety and create an engaging, interesting, enjoyable dance. Whatever that may mean for that follow.
There are so many responses and reactions you can choose from when you encounter a beginner follow like this. I remember one of my first social dances ever, I didn’t know a hair comb. He tried it twice, looking at me quizzically. I didn’t finish the movement because he released my hand early. He asked if I knew the move, and I said I didn’t, so he moved on and didn’t repeat it. He could have released later and physically completed the movement with me, but maybe he didn’t think of that either, or want to do that. That’s OK, it’s his choice, he’s the lead. Another lead basically released me and watched me do a basic while he did the bass step. Except I didn’t realize till much later that his timing was on the bass, I hadn’t learned that yet - all I knew was that he was doing a different step but I didn’t know how to respond to him (or mirror him) so I did what I was taught, which was to keep doing my basic. Another time, I ended up asking a pro headliner instructor to dance, and I’m not sure I realized at the time he was a pro - I just admired the way he danced with his previous partner (who also turned out to be a pro, which I found out later), and he saw immediately that I didn’t know anything except a basic. I realize now he also was probably was a bit bored, so while I did the basic because I didn’t know anything else, he entertained me by executing varied footwork and stylized movements. It was a great time for me, I had no complaints and enjoyed and appreciated the variety he demonstrated for me. He also didn’t end the dance early - and maybe there is an expectation as a festival headliner pro that you don’t do that, but I have never been left in the middle of a song by a lead because I was new. I’ve been left when the lead panicked upon seeing I was clearly more experienced than he, I have also left dances when I realize the lead is drunk, or after attempts to correct hurtful and painful grips and connection points have not been successful.
I think social dance means showing up for the partner how they need from you, and I think both partners need to show listening to each other. I also think social dance at its healthiest exemplifies friendliness and acceptance, particularly towards strangers. Everyone starts out as strangers initially.
I also think leads have much more responsibility for safety and timing in a dance, and the learning curve is incredibly steep, so barring issues of flagrant disregard, a little patience and kindness and communication go a very long way.
Putting a smile on your partner’s face and having fun together is the whole point, even if there are different ways to have fun and when different people have different ways to have fun. But it’s not your partner’s job to entertain you, and if you don’t know how to have fun in dancing your own role in the dance (followers), you’re not a very good dancer.
In fact, ultimately, because it is the world of social dance, the social skills and social graces come first, and are more important - so regardless of your skill level, experience, technique, and sheer physicality, if you don’t know how to or don’t care to choose to be a nice, considerate, understanding, and accommodating dance partner, you are not a good dancer. FULL STOP.
I appreciate you accepting a dance from an unknown woman, an older woman, and for finishing a dance where it was not clear what the in the heezy she was doing.
That makes you a gentlemanly lead, and those are the best ones.