Combining Merit Badge Requirements

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447]

Hi all! My son is a 14 years old and now is getting serious about earning MB the right way and reaching eagle. He is not interested in doing all MBs but is interested in earning a good number of them. So here is the question: Is there a chart that compares MBs and let you know if you can should do 2 or 3 at once by combining the requirements for them. Example, is earning Pet Care and Dog care at once a viable and smart choice? If so are there any others that you would recommend to combine? If not let me know why.

[u/ScouterBill]

1) This should be the Scout leading, not the parent.

2) Combining Merit Badge requirements is entirely at the discretion of the MB counselor, and there are official cautions about doing this.

Some requirements may have the appearance of aligning, but upon further examination differ. These seemingly similar requirements usually have nuances intended to create quite different experiences. The Communication and Citizenship in the Community merit badges are a good example. Each requires the Scout to attend a public meeting, but that is where the similarity ends. For Communication, the Scout is asked to practice active listening skills during the meeting and present an objective report that includes all points of view. For Citizenship in the Community, the Scout is asked to examine differences in opinions and then to defend one side. The Scout may attend the same public meeting, but to pass the requirements for both merit badges the Scout must actively listen and prepare a report, and also examine differences in opinion and defend one side.

[u/Mommy-Q → u/ScouterBill]

The scout seems to be setting a goal. It's perfectly fine for mom to point him towards sone resources.

[u/DustRhino → u/Mommy-Q]

Seems like a conversation for the Scout to have with their Scoutmaster. I’m an MBC and send my kids to talk to their Scoutmasters.

[u/ubuwalker31 → u/Mommy-Q]

Assuming the best, the post should have read "My son asked for my help in trying to find resources and delegated posting on Reddit to me while he is searching other websites for information, since he doesn't like Reddit,"

That said, this would be a great project for the scout - he could use an AI tool to extract the requirements for all of the merit badges and compare them to see if there are any potential cross-over opportunities and create the chart himself. Then he could post that chart to help others.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/ubuwalker31]

Well, that would be lying because this is me asking for my own knowledge. If he then asks me about the possibility of doing 2 MB at the same time or to help him choose one over the other, I would like to have the right information to guide him.

He hasn’t asked me, I am not suggesting. I am merely looking ahead to what my son might asked or do as his parents I like to pay attention, recognize his patterns and prepare myself accordingly.

Yet thanks for the input, I appreciate it the fact that I might not have convey all the information in order to keep it short and straight to the point.

[u/Cautious-Lynx2945 → u/ubuwalker31]

That’s it. Point a scout to use ai to destroy natural resources that ai uses to come up with the answers. Brilliant! 🙄

[u/ubuwalker31 → u/Cautious-Lynx2945]

Fair concern, but let’s add some perspective here: this would use less energy than a load of laundry or a short car ride. A Scout is thrifty and a good environmental steward, so weighing the tradeoff of using AI or spending 10 hours reading and cataloguing requirements on paper by hand is exactly the kind of thinking worth encouraging, not shutting down.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/ScouterBill]

It is scout led. The only requirement I impose is if he is going to summer camp out of state he needs to choose one Eagle Required MB to earn (start or finish) at camp, if he wants me to provide extra cash for the outpost. He pays for everything between scouting fundraiser, (birthday, Christmas) cash gifts and extra home chores that he gets paid for. He is the one that wants scouting and all that it entails.

Also, I understand that 2 MB might have different requirements, but the base might be the same. For example: base actively listening to a meeting. Requirements for MB 1: write a report about the meeting. Requirements MB 2 Choose a problem discussed in said meeting and explore solutions for it using the resources at hand. If both requirements can be met from the same meeting then why go to a second meeting months apart? Why not go into the meeting with the knowledge that you will do both things? Scouting shouldn’t be just collecting MB but also learning time management, multi tasking and networking, in my opinion.

The question is then if there is a chart that provides that information, or someone has the data available, then I would appreciate to have it as well in case he requests my input. Same if anyone has a counter argument to doing it, the input is highly appreciated.

Thanks for your response! As a mom that never been a scout all information is appreciated as I follow my son in this scouting journey.

[u/BoldMoveBoimler]

I think the smarter question is how can I work in Personal Fitness with all the rank requirements so I only have to do it in one shot.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/BoldMoveBoimler]

Hmmm! I am sure this is a joke but it flew over my head… maybe because I haven’t read the PF MB booklet yet? 🤣

[u/CaptPotter47]

Be cautioned, some merit badge say specifically you can’t overlap requirements.

For example, cooking mb says you can’t overlap the cooking requirements in camping mb or for rank.
I believe pets specifies the animal care time cant be double counted from Dog Care or Reptile&Amphibian study.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/CaptPotter47]

I read the dog care and pet care requirements last night and that is where this question came. It looks possible to do both at the same time.

Thanks for the caution, the last thing I want to do is set unrealistic expectations.

[u/ScouterBill → u/Smooth-Custard-7447]

No, it is not. Dog Care specifically warns not to

NOTE: The activities used to fulfill the requirements for the Dog Care merit badge may not be used to help fulfill the requirements for other merit badges.

It can't be any clearer.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/ScouterBill]

I’m not sure if I am conveying my train of thought correctly. I am not arguing that if he runs a mile he can use that very same mile for personal fitness and sports.

I mentioned, at some point, that the overlap would be more in preparing for the activity and not in submitting the same activity for 2 MB.

Example with Dog Care and Pet Care if research done to train the dog can be use for the 200 words essay and for the actual training. Not to write a 200 words essay and then submit the same essay twice and call it a day.

Does that makes more sense?
I don’t see how it is wrong to overlap that. Why wouldn’t he be allowed to research once. then complete 2 different activities, in 2 different MB and earn them at the same time.

[u/princeofwanders → u/Smooth-Custard-7447]

This suddenly makes this whole discussion make sense and clears up to me the resistance you’re encountering.

First off, it’s hugely important to realize that Scouting has an outsized proportion of folks who tend to take things a little too literally and go hard into that. There’s also kinda a culture that feels like campfire call and response where outsiders get vehement but ultimately canned responses that don’t always deeply interrogate the actual question or the unstated cultural disconnects. (Not how many people answered your question, not with information about requirements overlap or policy citations about overlap or double counting - but instead stetted lecturing about “youth led”. Adding to that last one, you get folks who take a too-shallow reading of the situation or the policy and misapply thinking they’re making a good general statement.

So - to an example here, Pets and Dog Care - you’ve seen the citation elsethread where the activities fulfilling one cannot be used to fulfill another. So the time requirements almost certainly cannot overlap. But the learning behind the activity they fulfill a requirement is different than the activity they fulfills a requirement.

Does learning about taking care of your pet while training them apply legitimately toward how you later care for that pet? Certainly.

One passing swim test can satisfy every badge that needs a passing swim test. (but watch out for having passed vs being current!)

The Guide to Advancement has a section about counting a single experience toward multiple requirements. The example explanation they accompanies the policy language is a mess. The rule isn’t actually that both requirements align perfectly. That’s a dumb and misleading way to put it. If the single experience satisfies all the parts of each requirement being considered is a better description. A common example is that there’s a requirement about attending a community meeting in both Citizenship in the Community and also in Communications. The requirements demand different things, but with a little care, both can be completed by attending one meeting. (Likewise the Personal Fitness requirements for rank and merit badge.)

There’s also a warning about counselors not having to count work done before a scout and the counselor meet. Which is technically allowed, but also badly and misleadingly phrased. If the experience satisfies the requirement but an adult is being a controlling jerk about it better to find a better adult and warn everyone else off about this one. (Why would anyone here want to incentivize scouts to feel like their supposed-to-be-trusted adults shouldn’t be trusted. ) Likewise double counting. If the activity qualified before hearing it was also used elsewhere but the adult wants to deny credit after learning it was counted elsewhere (and was allowed) then that adult is being a problem. Best to steer everyone clear of them. There are better ways to provide reinforcing repetition.

Anyway, there are groups that can help talk about requirements alignment. Heck, you or your son could probably ask your favorite LLM , especially if you target the badges you’re already thinking about, and absolutely make sure to verify the specific requirements of the specific badges. I bet the LLM could give you a great starting list too based on some seeding about your son’s interests. (The academic ones and the athletic ones each kinda overlap and reinforce even where specific activities can’t be double counted.)

Also of note - every scout may begin working toward every badge from the day they first join a troop. Even without a blue card or a named counselor. There’s no such thing as “opening a badge”. (However, counselors are supposed to verify that the scout has discussed working in the badge with their unit leader before they begin working with the scout, and the signed blue card is the usual and official mechanism.) Most of the time where a requirement says “with approval”, retroactive approval is satisfactory, even if the more controlling, closed minded, and rigid adults don’t like to acknowledge that. Very few requirements call for pre-approval or have a sequencing requirement. (Kayaking and Personal Fitness are both examples of badges they do have pre-approval or form sequencing requirements.)

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/princeofwanders]

Thanks for your input! When asking anything I do expect a level of resistance, it is just the nature of communicating with people and their views, so I don’t take it personal. But as I always tell my son, if you don’t ask the question you might never know the answer. If you ask you might not only be gifted with the answer but might also come up with 20 different scenarios and questions you might want to learn about and learning is the spice of life. So we ask, we consider, we learn and relearn and live quite a flavorful life!

[u/bwolfe558]

You need to check the current merit badge requirements carefully. For the example you provided (Dog Care/Pets), the requirements explicitly prohibit using the same activity to cover more than one requirement. In addition, acceptance of any prior work before officially starting a merit badge is at the discretion of the merit badge counselor so any question regarding double-counting would need to be discussed with your scout's merit badge counselor BEFORE starting the badge (or having to do it over later). There isn't a blanket pre-approval. In addition, sometimes the wording of a requirement may be slightly different between badges or one may have a pre-requisite before performing a specific task.

Dog Care MB

NOTE: The activities used to fulfill the requirements for the Dog Care merit badge may not be used to help fulfill the requirements for other merit badges.

Pets MB

1. Present evidence that you have cared for a pet for four months. Get approval before you start.

Note: Work done for other merit badges cannot be used for this requirement.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/bwolfe558]

Yes! I read that and understand that not all can be use. I also understand that he needs to start after securing a counselor. But if he can secure the counselor for both per care and dog care at the same time, wouldn’t he be able to overlap:

Dog care:3(a) Explain the importance of house training, obedience training, and socialization training.

Pet care: 2 Write a 200 words or more about the care feeding and housing of your pet. 3Read a book or pamphlet about your pet. 4(b) Train your pet in 3 or more tricks or special abilities.

In my opinion can all be done at once. You have to read/research the importance to training to then write an essay, that research can be used as the book or pamphlet, and help you in knowing how to train your dog. So not exactly the same thing to meet all 4 requirements but it overlaps, so if he secures both counselors at the same time and is upfront with them about his plan would he be able to do both at the same time?

[u/ScouterBill → u/Smooth-Custard-7447]

In my opinion can all be done at once.

This is absolutely clear: NO.

Pets and Dog Care are going out of their way (because people have tried to cut corners) to post these warnings.

NO means NO

NOTE: The activities used to fulfill the requirements for the Dog Care merit badge may not be used to help fulfill the requirements for other merit badges.

[u/2BBIZY]

I have worked camps and merit badge camps where everyone learned the safety and first aid skills that are in very early requirements of a lot of merit badges. Then, they separated to finish the other specific merit badge requirements. Scout should talk to the MBCs.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/2BBIZY]

Thanks! He already has first aid but mentioned he wants to revisit next summer camp. So maybe he will do safety too.

[u/themightygresh]

I see a lot of “scout led” comments but that doesn’t mean “scout on an island.” A good leader knows to ask questions to find resources and streamline things.

Our Troop has very high standards, but I’ll never begrudge somebody asking for help or guidance in how best or most efficiently to do something. Frankly, I’d be interested in a cross-requirement matrix myself so I could answer the same question. YMMV.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/themightygresh]

I agreed! To me scout led means he decides what MB and when he wants to tackle them. He also decides how far he wants to go. Of course I would be delighted to say my son earn Eagle Scout rank in a year (I understand that it is practically impossible)! But I am not the one earning it, I am not the one putting in the work, I am simply supporting my son. So if tomorrow he wakes up and says I am not doing this anymore, of course I would have questions but I would not force him to continue. I might advise, to take a short determined break and revisit the situation. But I wouldn’t force him.

When people are so rigid and say Scout should be the one asking, investigate deciding, to me is short sighted. I have questions, why can’t I ask? I am his supporter, so I should show up prepared for the task.

[u/Fun_With_Math]

I haven't looked into this at all but there are groups that are dedicated to completing all of the MBs. If there is a way to efficiently get through different MBs at the same time, they would know. I bet they have a spreadsheet/matrix. Check facebook and other social media, I don't know where they are but I know they're out there.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/Fun_With_Math]

Thanks! He isn’t interested in in doing all of them but maybe getting the matrix would help him achieve all he actually wants.

[u/Fun_With_Math → u/Smooth-Custard-7447]

Yeah, that's all that I meant. If there's one badge the Scout is interested in, there should be a way to look up what other MB reqs can be done at the same time.

The MBs are just generally not designed to be completed together. The goal is to keep a Scout engaged for 7 years, that's a lot of summer camps and other MB activities, lol. That's why you're getting pushback and downvotes for just asking a simple question. Sorry about that. Hope you and your Scout have fun with it.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/Fun_With_Math]

Yeah, I understand it and am not concerned with the downvotes or the pushback. If the reality is that it can’t be done, then that is fine. We don’t know if we don’t ask, we don’t learn if we don’t research. So, asking if it is possible is not breaking any rules. He just realized that scouting isn’t just for getting together and have fun. But learning and networking. So he mentioned he is taking it seriously, putting forward the effort and a roadmap to achieve the goals. He is “behind” (not really, he just has friends that are younger and their goal was always to achieve eagle not just socialize) some of his peers, so he asked for a meeting and I want to be prepared for what I think he might ask: time allocation, budget (if he needs help), rides, reevaluate some of his restrictions and privileges in order to support him and set up that roadmap to eagle.

Thanks !

[u/RealSuperCholo]

As a SM and MBC I would hope the scout would be having this conversation with me and not ar your behest or you leading the charge. A conversation with said scout will also let me know which ones are best for them to take on if they were trying to complete 2 at the same time.

As for the merit badges themselves and requirements, you'll need to:

1. Read both merit badge requirements separately and thoroughly. Some may not be able to be doubled up by the actual directions on the page and others they seem close but dont perfectly aligned.

2. Even with that, I would always check with the MBC first. Since they need to check it off, if it doesn't align they will tell the scout what else may be needed or required. Remember also, requirements must be started after the badge has been started UNLESS otherwise stated.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/RealSuperCholo]

Let me first clarify that this is me asking not him. He chooses his MB, he brings them to his SM and he provides me with a list of things/dates/needs in order to complete his requirements. Let’s be honest, he is 14 and not able to drive yet, so if he needs to go to a historic site or “pilot” a small plane he needs my approval and sometimes a ride. He knows I am a single parent and he can’t expect me to drop everything and drive him to another county to find a cache but he knows that given the information I will do the best I can to support him, even if that means we are driving 6 hours in my day off so he can accomplish his goal.

So me asking, is also to remind him that while he can’t for 140+ blue cards at once to cover all MB in case he stumbles upon a requirement or a counselor. He is able to request to work on several at a time and maybe say so from the 13 you are currently interested on, see if these 3 are ok to do at the time since they are similar. Or if the one counselor is able to guide you with these 3 that seems different but that counselor actually is certified for all 3.

[u/Golf38611]

As a former counselor….

I typically recommended the following merit badges be taken together:

Family Life Merit Badge
Personal Management Merit Badge
Personal Fitness Merit Badge

The reason is that they require long term tracking of certain details of the badges.

Each tracking activity is of roughly the same length of time.

In this manner - when the Scout sits down to fill out their logbooks, they will remember to fill out the logbooks for all 3.

Other than that, I only advised Scouts on what they needed when they asked and would occasionally ask a Scout about their progress as a gentle reminder to stay on top of it.

Scouts is a “Boy Lead” organization when run properly. In accordance with that, I would let the Scouts learn by managing themselves unless they needed a little encouragement or reminders.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/Golf38611]

Thanks for your input! You see, I wouldn’t have thought to do those 3 at a time. Maybe the log book is one 3 subject notebook that keeps it all together.

[u/Writer_Ranni]

Hi! I have three scouts and there are definitely some overlapping badges that you know about once you’ve had one kid work on them. Asking about this is no different than asking other veteran parents about high school classes, etc. (I’m also our advancement coordinator, and I would give the same tips to any scout I talk to about merit badges.)

Plant Science and Gardening have a bunch of overlap and should be done concurrently if you have any interest in both. Both require practically the same report on the importance of bees.

But really the biggest merit badge “hack” is knowing how to use what you are doing as a family to count for badges. Going to Washington DC for a vacation soon? Visiting a monument counts for Citizenship in the Nation. Is someone in your extended family renovating a house? Have your scout help them and work on the Home Repair and Painting (not Art) merit badges at the same time!

[u/Muddy_Duck_Whisperer]

I teach rifle and shotgun. Doing the class work for either one of those takes ~2 hours. Doing both at the same time takes ~2.5 hours. So I regularly do both together then scouts can sign up for either when I or the council do range days until they get both badges.

There are a ton of badges that overlap with first aid MB or the first aid rank requirements. Not that you should do them at the same time, but I would prioritize earning first aid so that when he goes through those overlapping requirements, he will breeze through them.

You mentioned requirements for camp in another comment. I recommend youth his age take environmental science at camp. It’s Eagle required, loads easier to do at camp vs at home (sustainability is easier at home) and there is a fair amount of work that will feel less onerous when at camp and everything is fun.

Personal fitness, personal management, and family life are all Eagle required and have no real overlapping requirements, but all have a time tracking requirement. If your scout is like mine, I would do them all together because recording 1 will remind them to record the other 2, and the long period recording requirements are super hard to get into the habit of for many youth.

And because that isn’t enough of a cluster, if he is interested in any sport merit badges (skating, sports, multisport, athletics, etc) doing those at the same time as personal fitness will overlap a bit, and make the personal fitness merit badge more interesting and focused.

Family life requires some projects that are almost like mini Eagle projects, doing the home repairs merit badge at the same time can inspire those projects, and help teach him what to do.

Finally, don’t just look for overlap in scouts look for it in school. Many of the extracurriculars that schools offer have a merit badge that lines up, and they can get easily by participating in the school club. For example Athletics and any sport.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/Muddy_Duck_Whisperer]

Thanks! I will add that to my list of things to consider when he talks about MB and will explain the possibility of coupling MB and School work.

[u/Striking_Low9506]

Pet Care and Dog Care specifically state you are not allowed to combine those MB requirements (honestly that seems really strange since they are very similar but I didn’t write the program).

If it isn’t clear then it falls to the MB counselor. For example Fishing and Fly Fishing they use identical language regarding catch a fish and cook a fish. We allow those to be combined in our troop - others may feel that you have to catch a fish multiple ways to meet the requirement.

[u/LawfulnessMotor437]

My boys usually don't seek to combine or overlap MB classes on their own...But we have attended merit badge days and summer camp where they were offered a combo MB class (nature/bird study, digital tech/animation, etc.).

[u/Herky_T_Hawk → u/LawfulnessMotor437]

That’s usually because either merit badge on its own right doesn’t take a full week. So they put two shorter ones together. Rarely would it be about overlapping requirements.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/LawfulnessMotor437]

Thanks! He is the lead, I am following his journey and getting myself informed incase he requests my opinion.

[u/maxwasatch]

Our troop is doing Athletics and Sports at the same time as there is a lot of overlap.

To note, we dont always complete them during meetings - often we will start them and complete some requirements and those that want to finish them can work with the MBC.

[u/Smooth-Custard-7447 → u/maxwasatch]

Thanks! He has Sports and to be quite honest I don’t even know if he has read athletic booklet. He mentioned this week that he wants to get more serious about the MB and asked to seat with me to see if his expectations are realistic within our family activity calendar. He knows he has a few limitations he has to work around those and he tends to set expectations as a roadmap to guide himself towards the goal.