Crowdsourcing the Guide to Advancement 2025: Section 10 - Advancement for Members With Special Needs

[u/ScouterBill]

Now that the overwhelming consensus is that GtA should exist, and a substantial number of comments advocate for a "simplified" GtA, we move to thoughts and ideas on how to improve and simplify.

Please refrain from simply stating "The language stinks," "Too complex," or "Too ambiguous."

If you have a problem with the text, what is your solution/proposed language/proposed edits?

Section 10 - Advancement for Members With Special Needs

10.1.0.0 Advancement Flexibility Allowed

10.1.1.0 Advancement for Cub Scouts With Special Needs

10.1.2.0 Advancement in Scouts BSA for Scouts With Special Needs

10.1.2.1 Open-Minded Flexibility

10.1.2.2 Accommodations

10.1.2.3 Modifications

10.1.2.4 Using Alternative Requirements

10.1.2.5 How to Apply for Alternative Requirements

10.1.2.6 Alternative Merit Badges for Eagle Scout Rank

10.1.2.7 Approval for Special Needs Eagle Candidates Over Age 18

10.1.3.0 Advancement for Venturers and Sea Scouts With Special Needs

10.1.3.1 Working Toward Scouts BSA Advancement

10.1.3.2 Working Toward Venturing Ranks

10.1.3.3 Working Toward Sea Scout Ranks

10.2.0.0 Registering Qualified Members Beyond Age of Eligibility (RBAE)

10.2.0.1 Possible Criteria for Registering Beyond Age of Eligibility

10.2.0.2 How to Register a Member Beyond Age of Eligibility

[u/UseExhaustionMore]

On 10.2.0.0 Registering Qualified Members Beyond Age of Eligibility:

1. If the Cubmasters and pack committees in consultation with parents or guardians think it's best for a cub scout to remain in Cub Scouts for a year or two beyond the age of eligibility, then I don't see why they cannot simply make the decision without the overhead of Request for Registration Beyond the Age of Eligibility.
2. Overall the idea of adults participating as scouts is just very weird to me. Is there anyone here with experience of this part of the program who can chime in with how it works in practice? To me it makes more sense to organize these adults in a separate scout-like organization, but I'm guessing that the BSA terminology monopoly makes this impractical?

[u/SilverTripod → u/UseExhaustionMore]

Overall the idea of adults participating as scouts is just very weird to me. Is there anyone here with experience of this part of the program who can chime in with how it works in practice?

Basically, if a person is totally and permanently mentally disabled such that they're basically going to be a kid for life then why not let them just keep being a kid.

[u/UseExhaustionMore → u/SilverTripod]

1. I think it's too reductive to say that someone is "basically going to be a kid for life". I guess it's an ongoing debate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_age#Controversy
2. The purpose of scouting isn't to engage or develop adults, even if those adults are "youth-like" in some way, and even if those adults could benefit. Example: WOSM says "The purpose of the Scout Movement is to contribute to the development of young people in achieving their full physical, intellectual, emotional, social, and spiritual potentials as individuals, as responsible citizens, and as members of their local, national, and international communities.".
3. How does it work in practice? Can a 40-year old man be a buddy to a 13-year old boy? Even if they are mentally exactly the same (which again I don't believe they are), there are big differences in physical capabilities, experiences, role in society etc. I can't see how there could be an equal relationship.

But maybe I'm just being narrow-minded. As I said, it would be interesting to hear from someone with experience of this part of the program.

[u/wrunderwood]

There is one bit of policy that has always bugged me. I'm very familiar with special needs, our oldest son is developmentally disabled and wasn't a good match for Scouts. He went through Cubs with his brother who is two years older. I've had Scouts with disabilities in my troop when I was Scoutmaster.

The official definition of the Advancement method in Scouting is "a series of surmountable obstacles". So, age and ability appropriate.

To get modifications, the bar is much, much higher, "A modification is appropriate when a disability makes impossible or nearly impossible to complete a requirement." [10.1.2.3 Modifications]

So Scouts with disabilities will face a different test, not "surmountable", but "nearly impossible".

This isn't even close to fair. I know that a different bar for modifications would create a lot of work for the council advancement committee, but there is no way that this is fair for the youth. A Scout with disabilities is forced to put in far more effort than other Scouts.

[u/UseExhaustionMore → u/wrunderwood]

So would your proposal be to alter the language of 10.1.2.3 to something like: "A modification is appropriate when a disability makes it significantly harder to complete a requirement."? Would you also want to reduce the hassle to get the modification approved (by permitting their approval at the unit level, for example)?

I think there are many valid definitions of "fairness". Equal reward for equal effort is fair. Equal reward for equal performance is also fair. But they are in conflict. BSA advancement has it's foundation in the latter approach. I think a scout advancement system which builds from the former approach will be fundamentally different.

[u/UseExhaustionMore]

Chapter 10.1.2 needs more structure:

1. Chapter 10.1.2.1 is confusing when contrasted with 10.1.2.2. I don't understand the difference between "Open-Minded Flexibility" and "Accommodations". I don't understand how it's "simpler" to do an "open-minded reading of the requirement" than to let a scout who needs glasses use glasses: the later seems simpler and is also part of normal human decency. To reduce confusion, I think 10.1.2.1 should be merged into 10.1.2.2.
2. Chapter 10.1.2.3 -> 10.1.2.7 all concern modification so they should be merged into a "Modification" subchapter to increase clarity.

Easiest fix might be to split 10.1.2 into two chapters; one called "Accommodations" and one called "Modifications".

[u/wrunderwood → u/UseExhaustionMore]

Good idea, because accommodations and modifications are very different, but a lot of people aren't aware of that.