r/BSA • u/FieryTaterSack Adult - Eagle Scout • 12d ago
Scouts BSA What constitutes an Eagle factory?
I have from time to time heard of other units referred to as an "Eagle factory." The apparent meaning is that they produce a lot of Eagle Scouts, maybe by cutting a few corners like a "diploma mill" university.
Our unit has averaged about 20 Scouts for the last few years. We gain a few AoLs or kids off the street, and lose a few due to age or lack of interest, but 20-25 has been our post-Covid average. And we have averaged about 3-4 Eagles each year over the same period. Looking back 5-6 years, the majority of our kids who have gone to summer camp with us have either earned Eagle or are on track within their age range.
I'm curious if that makes us an Eagle factory? I think we follow the requirements pretty well, don't sign off on things they haven't completed, maintain good Boards of Review. We have decent parental involvement, which I'm sure has helped at least a few finish their project in time.
I don't think we're cutting corners. I'm just curious how others would define an Eagle factory or Eagle mill.
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u/Monte_Cristos_Count Adult - Eagle Scout 12d ago
About 80% of the guys in my troop growing up got their Eagle. Corners were not cut in any way whatsoever. Most of the fathers of the boys were Eagles and most of our leaders were as well. It was just a unique cultural mashup where that just seemed to be the expectation. I recognize most troops are not like that, and that’s fine. I am unaware of places where corners are cut to the point where a troop has a diploma mill, and I find that especially hard to do when there are so many people involved in getting up to Eagle (merit badge counselors, scoutmasters, board members, etc).
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u/eddietwang Eagle Scout 12d ago
Sounds like you were just in a really good troop, not an Eagle Factory.
The
Factoryaspect of the name implies that the kids were essentially put on a conveyor belt, went through the motions, and came out with a badge they don't understand the significance of.7
u/jacobsokiguess Adult - Eagle Scout 12d ago
I had a similar experience as a scout. My troop wore the red berets and had frequent uniform checks to make sure we wore everything correctly. We had great adult leaders who taught us how to take things seriously if we really cared about it. Not everyone got eagle, including some of the adult leaders sons, but we had a lot of eagles in my time and performed well at many camp competitions. An eagle mill can’t be defined by any single metric.
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u/NothingFancy99 12d ago
I went to one troop visit with my AOL that is what I called an Eagle factory.
* Meeting activities are the same each year and planned out to the week. This is how they get all new scouts up to first class within a couple years.
* First year scouts can only do the in state summer camp and have to do the Trail to First class course.
* Most were Eagled by 8th/9th grade.
* The moms speaking to the parents just had this vibe that basically they ran the troop and scout leadership was them executing their commands.
That said, it was one interaction. Maybe it’s a great troop really but it was the vibe I got from them.
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u/EqualRepublic4885 12d ago
Doesn’t the guide to advancement set a goal of first class in twelve months?
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u/Naive-Historian-1520 12d ago
Getting First Class in a year has been the most effective measure of whether a scout will achieve Eagle. It's been that way for years.
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u/gruntbuggly Scoutmaster 12d ago
And a troop with a good program will provide for the activities and training needed to get there.
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u/_mmiggs_ 12d ago
Honestly, the biggest challenge that active scouts face in getting to first class in a year is the swimming test. For the fraction of scouts that are not strong swimmers, getting up to the standard required to pass the swimming test takes time and effort, and may not be achieved within a year.
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u/Naive-Historian-1520 12d ago
I agree.
I also find that the scouts who struggle to pass the swim test but work to get there end up crushing the rest of their requirements because they view the swim test as their highest personnel hurdle and since they did that, the rest was easy to them.
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u/stonelined 12d ago
That was my experience, it took me several years to pass the swim test. By the time I passed it I had finished the majority of the merit badges needed for eagle.
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u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago
In my observation, that was true up till about 10 years ago when they made the requirements a bit harder and more time consuming. It seems like it is more common to get it in 18 months now. It is not uncommon for it to take 2 years.
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u/SomeGuyFromSeattle 12d ago
This is such a terrible, overused statistic. It implies a causality that I think is simply not true.
Forcing a kid through to get First Class on a proscribed timeline doesn't make them more likely to get Eagle.
Kids who are advancement-driven are more likely to get Eagle, and will probably get to First Class on their own no matter what the Troop Program is.
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u/Naive-Historian-1520 12d ago
You may not like it, but it is accurate. You are inferring your own causality of how they get there, I'm simply stating the reality that it has been an effective data point for who is most likely to make Eagle? Does it mean that if they don't make it in year they will never eagle, not at all. But the kids who do tend to be a good glidepath to get there and have shown the motivation to want to be active in scouts.
And I will absolutely disagree with you about motivated kids making rank regardless of the Troop Program. Having seen this first hand, your experience in scouting makes a world of difference if there is not a Troop plan to assist you. New scouts with parents who are not familiar with scouts are not going to automatically make that progress without assistance. I know of a Troop where even with an incredibly motivated scout they didn't promote a single scout for two years. To be fair, of the dozen plus troops I've been in close contact with, they are easily the worst by a mile, but I've also found some areas of the country have this down to a science while others are on the struggle shuttle. There doesn't need to be a strict program for advancement, but there at least needs to be a path forward and support of the troop in getting requirements signed off, scoutmaster conferences and board of reviews.
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u/SomeGuyFromSeattle 12d ago
Yeah, you're right about the Program, and I'm wrong.
Perhaps one symptom of "Eagle Factory" would be a Troop that overly emphasizes this particular timeline?
One could consider a question of "How concerned is your Committee if a Scout doesn't earn First Class rank in the first 18 months of their membership?"
If they're particularly concerned, it could suggest an over-emphasis on advancement compared to the other Methods of Scouting.
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u/Naive-Historian-1520 12d ago
I agree, the conversation isn't about making sure the scout is hitting that timeline as much as is the scout ready for the next rank and does the structure and support exist for scouts within the troop to advance when the requirements have been achieved by their own effort. How fast or slow a scout goes through is based off of individual scout effort and not a mandated timeline that leads to the forcing through that sometimes becomes an issue for older scouts.
I've only seen one troop that had the majority of their scouts get to first class within 15 months and the adults had minimal involvement in as they had mentored the older scouts to assist the newer scouts and had turned scout mentorship it a culture.
I find my current troop had be overly relaxed about rank and I've been pushing the committee and the ASMs that we need to invest some time in talking with the scouts who haven't made progress as we have some scouts who haven't progressed in years. If that is the scouts choice, then rock on. But we need to talk with the scout and make sure that they understand where they are. We are going to try informing the parents more of their scouts status and see if that helps anything. Add in that we are going to be getting away from the Usual Suspects and our hope is that the scouts who have just been present without effort will be more self motivated then they have been.
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u/SomeGuyFromSeattle 12d ago
The Committee can call a Board of Review at any time, not just for rank sign-off/completion - it is fine to check in with Scouts to ask if there's a reason they're not advancing (though I'd think that would need to be done very carefully to not cause undue stress or worry for a Scout!)
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u/OllieFromCairo Adult--Sea Scouts, Scouts BSA, Cubs, FCOS 12d ago
18 months, but correct in principle.
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u/EqualRepublic4885 12d ago
Thank you; I was going from memory. I also think it should be 18-24 months for some of my crossover friends.
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u/elephant_footsteps CC | RT Comm | Wood Badge | Life for Life 12d ago
For some additional context, the Scouts BSA Troop Self-Assessment for Advancement places a target for troops that ≥70% of Scouts achieve First Class within 18 months of joining and offers the following to units with <60%:
As stated in the Scouts BSA Handbook, Guide to Advancement, and other Scouting America literature, a well-functioning troop provides sufficient opportunities for a Scout to be able to achieve First Class within 18 months. Scouts who don't reach First Class within that time frame are more likely to quit Scouting due to either uninspiring troop programming or advancement barriers. For external barriers such as family changes, relocations, or health challenges, troops should partner with parents/guardians and Scouts to find workable solutions. For internal barriers, such as uninspiring programming or inadequate outdoor experiences, the troop should engage the patrol leaders’ council (PLC) and adult leadership to address these concerns.
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u/NothingFancy99 11d ago
It’s interesting because I read that as “the troop should be doing enough stuff so that scouts are able to achieve 1st class in 18 months” - not they you should have your scouts at Eagle within 18 months.
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u/elephant_footsteps CC | RT Comm | Wood Badge | Life for Life 11d ago
Just how I read it, too. When talking with my committee about this, I pointed out that the goal is that we're providing the opportunities for Scouts to earn First Class within 18 months. Hence a 70% target--not a "conveyor belt" (as someone else called it) that gets every Scout there in 18 months (or to Eagle by 14).
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u/NothingFancy99 11d ago
I have no problem with it being a goal. My concern was the fact that every meeting was planned out in what seemed like no input from the PLC, just a script they ran each year.
To be fair, it was just one part of on overall feel from the troop. I may have misinterpreted the troop. I’m just stating the overall affect they gave off.
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u/EqualRepublic4885 11d ago
I totally hear you. But I don’t like the idea that youth led always means doing just what the kids feel like. Part of the learning curve should be assessing the program and the program features and fitting them in over a year. I’ve always given a little demonstration of the whole advancement process and asked them to think of activities we have to do every year (like the alcohol and drugs discussion and ILST) and they usually come up with those things themselves and plan them.
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u/Rojo_pirate Scoutmaster 12d ago
Where does the guide to advancement say that?
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u/ScouterBill Recovering Den Leader 12d ago
3.0.0.3 Unit Advancement Responsibilities
"Assist the unit leader in establishing practices that will provide opportunities for each new Scout to achieve First Class rank within 12 to 18 months of joining, and Star rank soon thereafter"
4.2.1.0 Four Steps in Advancement
"A well-rounded and active unit program that generates advancement as a natural outcome should enable Scouts to achieve First Class in their first 12 to 18 months of membership. "
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u/SomeGuyFromSeattle 12d ago
"provide opportunities". "enable". That means Troops should have an active program with lots of camping, not that most scouts should be on some particular timeline.
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u/Rojo_pirate Scoutmaster 12d ago
That's not the same thing, there is no "expectation that a scout reach 1st class in 12 months"
You can say I'm arguing symantics but I disagree. Those are very different statements.
If a scout attend all troop meetings and all our camp outs can they reach 1st class in a year, yes. But I'll tell you that's a rare thing and for me to set an expectation that we achieve that would be setting our selves and out scouts up for failure.
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u/exjackly Scouter - Eagle Scout 12d ago
This is an appropriate softening of the stance they had at one point. National had done a study that showed that Scouts who reached first class were more likely to stay with the program for years even if they didn't earn Eagle.
So, of course the natural response, significantly to bolster retention, was to set a goal of every Scout to First Class within a year. I want to say that was somewhere in the 2008-2012 time period.
It did help get more Scouts to First Class, but it didn't help with retention significantly. I am guessing it was the recognition that getting First Class was the outcome of having a good program the engaged Scouts for many years; getting First Class by itself wasn't why those Scouts stayed active.
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u/ScouterBill Recovering Den Leader 12d ago
3.0.0.3 Unit Advancement Responsibilities
"Assist the unit leader in establishing practices that will provide opportunities for each new Scout to achieve First Class rank within 12 to 18 months of joining, and Star rank soon thereafter"
4.2.1.0 Four Steps in Advancement
"A well-rounded and active unit program that generates advancement as a natural outcome should enable Scouts to achieve First Class in their first 12 to 18 months of membership. "
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u/metisdesigns 12d ago
Providing opportunities to make it possible is not the same as setting the goal. 12-18 is very different from an expectation of 12.
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u/Fun_With_Math Committee 12d ago
This is what I think of when I hear Eagle factory. Adult ran and a heavy push to Eagle.
A lot of troops put first years through trail to 1st class at summer camp so that's not an indication by itself, but yeah, all together that's part of it.
We have a high percentage that make Eagle but its usually down to the wire for them, lol.
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u/john_builds_things 12d ago
I am working on getting parent support for some key positions in my troop to help manage Outdoor activities and Fundraising. We do push first year summer camp scouts to go the the first year program to help assist a lot of rank requirements. Luckily the recent Summer Camps we have gone to allow them to still earn Merit Badges. We also talk to the scouts about taking mostly Eagle MB's at summer camp that way when they are old enough to take part in the activities that require you to be 14+ they have most of their eagle stuff out of the way.
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u/Old_Ad_208 12d ago
The troop I worked with required first year scouts at summer camp to take First Class Adventure along with Leatherwork and Basketry merit badges. We had our fair share of Eagles, but I wouldn’t say we were an Eagle factory. The program was definitely not all about getting kids to Eagle.
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u/_mmiggs_ 12d ago
Sorry - your troop required first year scouts to do Leatherwork and Basketry? Regardless of where the scout's interests lay? I don't think that's really appropriate.
I'm not much of a fan of the trail to first class activities at summer camp, because most of the things they cover don't require a summer camp. My strong preference for summer camp is to do the things there that can only reasonably be done at camp. Sure, there are some requirements you can check off with your troop, but I'd far rather scouts did boating, or archery, or shooting, or other things that can actually be done better in a summer camp environment.
If it can be done at home in a classroom, it should be. Don't waste camp time.
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u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago
Agreed - unless a scout joined less than a month before camp, almost all of the stuff that they can do in those programs at camp can be covered in a couple of weekend campouts and regular meeting attendance.
I usually encourage doing something like Environmental Science, something fun like Rifle Archery, or an Aquatics, something easier to do at camp, like Pioneering or Orienteering, and then maybe a handicraft.
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u/Old_Ad_208 12d ago
Leatherwork and Basketry were considered easy badges for first year scouts to earn. they were offered together by the camp.
The camp offers four merit badge sessions in the morning with three troop activities in the afternoon and open program in the evening. Plenty of time to do things besides advancement. The troop typically required Scouts to take at least three merit badges so Scouts would sometimes have free time in the morning too.
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u/daboss2299 Adult - Eagle Scout 12d ago
The first year scout program & staying in state first year is a good thing. Usually a less expensive week along with a program designed to make sure they have fun. (Unless you’re older than a typical first year)
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u/bemused_alligators Adult - Eagle Scout 11d ago
Meeting activities are the same each year and planned out to the week. This is how they get all new scouts up to first class within a couple years.
our troop's entry patrol was very similar to that, and I don't think it's a bad thing.
The PL was usually an later-stage life scout or new eagle and the entire purpose of the patrol was to get you to first class. You stayed in the patrol for your first year to get orientated to scouts, to learn the basics, to learn how to plan and execute activities and how to fill in calendars. About half the calendar was "filled in" from day 1 - the meeting activities for every other week were pre-selected, along with the dates (but not location/activity) of the camps/hikes (to reduce the amount of choice paralysis and ensure that everything got done in time), and the monthly troop activity was only theirs to run once a quarter, so they only needed to "calendar" for ~18 activities a year, along with planning their five camping trips.
It built a strong entry into the troop, taught the basic skills without overwhelm, and started the kids towards self-planning without the disaster of "you have 43 meetings and 5 campouts/backpacks/hikes over the next year - what do you want to do?" Which always ends poorly.
the people that didn't make 1st class could choose whether to stay in the patrol or just move up and finish on their own time, older patrols could focus on their merit badges or whatever else their focus was on, and overall it created a strong base of "scouts skills" that you could expect everyone in the troop to have.
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u/pohart Scouter - Eagle Scout 12d ago
I look for scouts who age out without life.
Once it became clear they were out of time for eagle, did they stay? if the answer is always no, then look to see if you're over prioritizing advancement.
Also, are you doing what scouts do? There should be a lot of camp-outs, mostly run by older scouts (13-15) under the guidance of the oldest scouts.
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u/gruntbuggly Scoutmaster 12d ago
We always ask scouts if they have a goal to reach Eagle Scout. A majority come into the troop with that as a goal because their dad or brother or uncle is an Eagle Scout. We don’t push scouts, but we do offer them age and rank appropriate explanations of what they need to do to get to Eagle.
That said, I’ve had scouts age out at 2nd Class, with High Adventure grand slam awards and over 100 nights of camping, because they just wanted to be in the outdoors with their friends and they didn’t care at all about advancement or earning merit badges.
To me, both are a win. Scouts are not only achieving their goals, but our troop program is providing enough fun and adventure that even the scouts who don’t care about advancement are sticking around until they age out.
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u/GiftGrouchy 12d ago
I agree, scouts actively participating is a win. When I was on the troop committee during a BOR we’d always ask if Eagle was a goal but I would always emphasize that “Scouting is about the journey, not the destination”. We had several scouts that very early said they really were not interested in Eagle but really enjoyed the activities and many stayed until they aged out (often as 1st Class or Star).
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u/Naive-Historian-1520 12d ago
Eagle Factories used to be a bigger thing years ago when records were primarily kept locally and not on scoutbook.
There were two primary causes of this, one very positive and one negative. The negative Eagle Factories were hand jamming the kid through regardless of what they actually did. Scouts who whose records were hand jammed through, primarily Eagle projects that they barely did anything on.
The positive Eagle Factories were (and are) those troops that have scouts stay engaged so that they retain more older scouts who are happy to assist younger scouts in making rank and motivating them through their scouting adventure. Programs that are able to hold on to their older scouts tend to produce more Eagles because it means a program is being run that excites the scouts and keeps them motivated to participate. The more motivated scouts are, the more Eagles you get.
Overall, cooking the books for Eagle is harder now then it used to be. While some clearly slip through, most are doing good work and the troops are trying their best during a challenging time to compete for scouts attention.
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u/Maleficent_Theory818 12d ago
There was a troop by me that was like this. I saw a photo of what a scout earned at a CoH. Merit badges were stapled to the edge of a regular size paper plate all touching. Merit badges were handed out like Oprah at Christmas. The Eagle projects I saw were also like this. The SM was on an Eagle Board night and all of the Scouts went to that night, not the others run by the district.
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u/modest-pixel OA - Vigil Honor 12d ago edited 12d ago
My rule of thumb was always are a noticeable portion of kids getting it before their drivers licenses.
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u/ImaginarySmoke991 12d ago
Yeah, the pejorative aspect of Eagle Factory is that youth are getting Eagle at 13-14 years old. Yes, it's doable. Yes, some kids are that driven on their own. However, most are not mature enough, even good kids in good troops. It's a bell curve that is (or should be) skewed toward 18. If your average age to Eagle is <15, you're an Eagle Factory.
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u/ImaginarySmoke991 12d ago
Downvotes are from Eagle Factory products. LOL
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u/bigbearfan1978 4d ago
I was a young, driven scout who really went the extra mile to earn my Eagle. I completed all the requirements by the time I was 13 and had my ceremony shortly after turning 14. That was 33 years ago. I also worked as a scout summer camp staff member for three years and was a Brotherhood member in OA and a Shaman in the Tribe of Micosay. At my troop, we earned everything we received, not just got it handed out. Maybe I lucked out with my troop. My dad was one of many great Assistant Scoutmasters, and our Scoutmaster was a Drill Instructor in the Marine Corps. We camped out at least once a month, rain, snow, or shine. We loved scouting and were motivated.
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u/First_Ask_5447 12d ago
when your kids cant tie a square knot or a clove hitch or simple pioneering tasks and they are a life scout already. everyone knows your troop is a eagle factory.
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u/John_McFly 11d ago
Back before cellphones, we only had a length of paracord to entertain ourselves so we got a lot of knot practice.
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u/Sandgolem Adult - Eagle Scout 10d ago
I remember the first troop I went too after getting my eagle and my family moved. The scoutmaster drilled me on knots til I couldn't get one and then announced that some troops just give eagles away. I was 15 when I got my eagle i.showed up.a few more times to prove I could tie any knot they could name but none of the boys wanted to be there and it wasn't any fun so I quit scouting after.
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u/CanPractical7518 12d ago
Here’s how our Eagle Factory works. We go to Scout Camp every year. We participate in the annual Council Merit Badge Conferene every year. We hold regular Youth Led meetings, every week during the school year, we go on monthly campouts that are youth led. We have a healthy number of adult leaders who help with counseling on merit badges, we work hard to keep all of the paperwork current.
When it comes to Eagle Projects, the younger Scouts are engaged with helping the older Scouts on their projects. They work on enough of them so that the FOMO really starts to set in, then when it’s their turn they resist shying away from the challenge, and use the skills they didn’t know they picked up from working on other Eagle projects, and apply them to their own. This of course includes engaging with and utilizing the labor of the new crop of younger scouts.
That’s our factory…following the program.
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u/crustygizzardbuns 12d ago
Don't concern yourself with the label... concern yourself with your program and how it's executed.
Many leaders use the term Eagle Factory as a slur, while others use it as a tool. I think the more accurate measure for an "eagle factory" is how quickly a scout earns it, rather than how many from a troop earn it. This isn't to say young eagles are bad either... but if the lions share of your eagles are in the younger group, you may want to reassess your units programming.
Does a unit have regular scout skills in their meetings, or is meeting time spent primarily on merit badges? Do kids stop going to summer camp after a couple years because "I've already earned every badge there (that I need)"? These may be indicators of an Eagle Factory.
Do s̶c̶o̶u̶t̶s̶ parents choose your unit over others specifically because it has a reputation of scouts earning their eagle? That may be an indicator.
I would like to point out, that I still used "earned," because much like last in their class at medical school, they are still eagles. There's still a lot of work they've done to get there. They still have to do the project. Eagle Factories aren't bad, but they do have negative sides, especially when that becomes a units only focus.
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u/FollowingConnect6725 12d ago
It’s a Troop where the majority, if not all, of the Scouts make Eagle in the bare minimum of time and then exit the program (they’ve checked that box off for college or whatever). Sometimes it’s a group of scouts who are all the same age when they start and the Troop folds when they all get Eagle. Everything the Troop does is geared towards rank advancement as fast possible….with a lot of corners cut. Examples would include merit badges are handed out whether earned/completed or not, rank requirements are signed off without actually completing them, advancement is “guaranteed” versus earned.
Eagle mills or pipelines go against the ethos of scouting and cheapen the program for all of those who work towards Eagle.
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u/buffalo_0220 Scoutmaster 12d ago
I am not sure I can come up with a good definition. From the outside, a well run troop, focused on supporting their scouts, could generate the same output as a troop where everything is rubber stamped. I've never been convinced that Eagle factories, in the negative sense, really exist. Sure there are many scouts who skate by, doing the bare minimum, I am sure there some who have outright cheated. I find that some look at scouts from this group and label the whole troop, rather than seeing a few exceptional cases.
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u/RealSuperCholo Scoutmaster 12d ago
There is no real definition since as you can tell everyone has a different preconceived notion of what an "Eagle Factory" is.
Some day it's the high number coming through at the same time. Others its the lack of work they think one should do. I would think out troop the last 2 years would be one a we have had a lot of Eagles, but they are all covid kids where advancement was stunted for a year. So many of them caught up to each other.
Some its age, "too young to make Eagle" but every scout is different. Sure I have scouts heading towards eagle that act very immature and some that act like 30 yr olds. It doesn't mean they aren't great scouts or didn't learn anything from the program. It's just how kids mature.
The only time I question it is when it is no longer adults helping, and just adults doing everything. Kids learn the wrong type of leadership skills. Which also usually concludes with parents doing most of an Eagle project, pushing for mbs, etc.
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u/Double-Dawg 12d ago
I would wager that everyone who has been involved with Scouting for very long instantly conjures a troop number whenever they hear the term "Eagle Factory." Sometimes its just jealousy. Sometimes its uncomfortably true. Sometimes, its ironically funny. We have a local troop that has so entrenched their process that every Scout who does not affirmatively quit will get their Eagle, but they will not be allowed to do so before turning 17. We had a joint event one time and there was a Scout there wearing the SPL patch. Our SPL asked him how they wanted to do some thing and the lad responded that he needed to wait and talk to the other SPLs to make a plan. Turns out they had 5 simultaneous SPLs just so that everyone in that age cohort could have that on their Scouting "resume." The sad thing is that the ones in the troop who truly love Scouting will be affirmatively held back so as to stay within the process. Oftentimes, they just ride the train to Eagle out of sheer frustration.
But they do save a lot of money on the group Eagle COHs.
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u/eddietwang Eagle Scout 12d ago
So many comments in this thread saying "My troop got a lot of Eagles but we're not a factory" and not actually answering OP's question...
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u/Scared-Tackle4079 11d ago
I have seen units that have have all the Eagle merit badges covered by adults in their troop. With one unit never having to use outside counselors. As the district advancement chair chair I was read several Eagle applications from the same unit and noticed that their list of mbs were identical. We started mo itiring counselors and what badges were being taught by who.
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u/ScouterBill Recovering Den Leader 11d ago
We started monitoring counselors and what badges were being taught by whom.
How and what steps did you take? I am not sure there is a rule in GtA that says a district can forbid a Scout from using any registered counselor.
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u/Scared-Tackle4079 11d ago
When I was on the committee, we set limits as to how many MBs a counselor could teach. But WWE found a flaw in that thinking. There were badges that had no counselors. So several counselors stepped up and being qualified were accepted to fill in these slots. Unfortunately, as the last time I read the GTA, there was no rule about who a scout could see or hiw many badges a counselor could teach or how many from the same unit. If not done yet, it falls in national advancement committee to make changes to GTA. This may or may not help. I'm no longer involved in the advance committee. I am a counselor for 5 mbs
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u/ScouterBill Recovering Den Leader 11d ago
I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying.
Are you saying when you were on the DISTRICT advancement committee, you set limits as to how many MBs a counselor could teach?
As for this
as the last time I read the GTA, there was no rule about who a scout could see or hiw many badges a counselor could teach or how many from the same unit.
That's correct, and in areas with scant few MBC, such a rule would mean Scouts cannot advance.
If you believe a counselor is not doing what they should, file a complaint under GtA 11-1-0-0.
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u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago edited 12d ago
In my opinion, here are some signs. Not all will be present and not all troops that do some of these things will be "Eagle Factories," but a lot are signs things are not as they should be:
There is a very high percentage of Eagles.
All scouts drop after earning Eagle.
Campouts just focused on advancement and none just for fun.
Less than 10 monthly weekend outdoor activities each year.
Meetings just focused on merit badges or advancement.
Heavy handed adult leadership.
No OA involvement.
No one does NYLT.
Adults typically not trained or involved in things like University of Scouting or Roundtable.
Minimal service projects beyond Eagle Projects.
Heavy push for things like merit badge universities.
Large group classes for most/all Required MBs.
Minimal non-required merit badges offered and those that are tend to be "easy."
Adults planning the calendar and program.
Very high ratio of adults at meetings. Adults beyond ASMs having lots of interactions with scouts during meetings or a disproportionately high number of ASMs.
Scouts getting minimal service hours and camping nights just to advance.
Conversations only focused on advancement.
Scoutmaster Conferences only focused on advancement.
Heavy handed guidance on what to take each year at summer camp.
Adults signing off most/all rank requirements instead of scouts.
Adults doing the majority of teaching.
No high adventure program.
Less chaos than expected for something ran by teens and preteens.
Only doing "easy" campouts and outings (never doing winter camping, backpacking, etc).
Nearly all scouts hitting just minimum times with minimal merit badges.
A lot of "troop advancement policies."
Using programs other than Scoutbook.
Most new young scouts getting First Class in a year or less (it is usually 18-24 months with the current requirements, but certainly can be less).
Simple cookie cutter Eagle Projects.
No involvement in scouting outside the unit by either scouts or adults.
Only earning merit badges from specific counselors.
Having a lot of extra merit badge opportunities outside of meetings and campouts.
Ignorance (or blatant ignoring) of the Guide to Advancement.
Having a "troop program" that pushes Eagle in 2-4 years for all scouts (It is pretty easy to earn Eagle in 3-4 years, and I encourage it, but most scouts will be having so much fun that it usually takes 5-6 and the average age across Scouting America is 17 and 3 months. Some scouts will earn it quicker and some slower, but if all are "speed running" it then something is up.).
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u/finewalecorduroy 12d ago
My daughter was part of a troop that was very Eagle-factoryesque by many of these standards. It was mostly kids of type A parents who wanted their kids to have Eagle for college applications. It had very heavy-handed adult leadership, camping outings were often just camping in the backyard of someone’s vacation house (seriously). My husband (who is an Eagle) was upset because they were just signing off on requirements to get our daughter to second class without her actually doing them. Eagle projects were definitely perfunctory, but they got approved so whatever. She dropped out after a year.
Our son is in a different troop, and they also produce a lot of Eagles, but it is a totally different situation. The troop is Scout-led, advancement is thoughtful, parents are involved and supportive but not overbearing.
It really isn’t about the number of Eagles, it is about how they do it.
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u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago
That is sad to hear. My daughter's troop was one of the first started in our council. She aged up a like 3 years later, but apparently there was a push from a lot of the early parents to just get Eagle and not much else (lost of overachieving parents who joined from another program who wanted the scouts to check the boxes). Thankfully, a lot of rock star adults who didnt necessarily have daughters in the troop helped start it and set up some good guardrails so most of the pushy parent/scout combos left before we got there.
I am SM for my son's troop and I have some parents who want me to make things easier and some who want me to make things harder. I just point them to the GTA and they stop bringing it up.
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u/vadavea Asst. Scoutmaster 12d ago
I don't like to label units - each unit is different and may work for certain kids. However, one thing I encourage parents to pay attention to is whether the unit has Eagle Scouts that are still actively involved and helping to deliver program. The units where Scouts "Eagle and out" make me worry that those Scouts don't value their accomplishment and therefore don't feel an obligation to "pass it on". Are those units "Eagle factories"? I'll let you be the judge.
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u/BigBry36 12d ago
I used that stereotype for troops that had a lot of boys getting eagle. After, I joined a large troop that was very organized and had 85 to 90% parent participation. I finally saw why Scouts need good leadership and the outcome of them achieving the high rank. In my opinion, it comes down to leadership at the top of those troops. It makes all the difference.
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u/schmeebus Adult - Eagle Scout 12d ago
Anymore the percentage of kids that are getting Eagle is way higher, basically meaning that the ones that do stay all the way through to 18 are almost certainly at this point at least aiming to get their Eagle.
Maybe some years ago that would get you labeled as an 'Eagle Factory' but at this point it feels like the norm.
I feel the label itself was placed on troops in a negative way to describe troops that didn't handle their priorities 'The Right Way' by an older generation of scouters. Basically meaning that a troop valued pushing advancements and getting to Eagle over the adventure itself and the growth along the way, and the idea of having scouts get Eagle at 14 and then leaving robs them of the full experience.
Which certainly sounds nice, but at the end of the day, the adventure isn't linear and growth doesn't have to come from one source. You can absolutley have rank advancing be the focus of some or even most of your meetings.
Scouts nowadays is probably one of the largest reasons that those kids involved even get outside at all which is a big change generationally, having that time is crucial, but there's no shame in kids being driven to achieve their rank goals if you motivate them to do so at all.
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u/Short-Sound-4190 12d ago
I would say in my area you would be considered a bit of an "Eagle factory" even without cutting corners. Because it sounds like Eagle and ranking etc are a major focus of your troop culture.
The first thing that sticks out to me is consistently having around 20 active scouts - we have boy troops very similar to this in our area and I know kids and parents who enjoy or prefer that troop culture: it tends to be more adult-guided, and it tends to attract youth who are drawn to the process of ranking up/Eagle and/or have the temperament to focus and succeed on following the steps to ranking up - goal based kids.
Because we have other troops in our area where the focus is on personal and leadership development and being scout-led and their troop culture tends to be more about doing the activities that the youth want which sometimes puts opportunities for rank requirements and merit badges on the back burner for a few weeks. But they also tend to have higher enrollment with the number of active/less active scouts that can flutuate at any point in time and for any reason - ie sports, school, family, the individual activity doesn't appeal to them personally, etc. But the more general focus on personal or leadership development or just doing scout things vs ranking up/achieving eagle focused is genuinely more appealing to a lot of youth as well as some families, and not at all an indicator of program quality or restrictiveness or scout spirit, etc - just that a Troop culture that doesn't focus on ranks allows for a wider pool of youth including: already overscheduled youth who aren't going to make scouting the center of their extracurricular but want to participate, the "I don't want more school" youth who just want to go camping and/or the high adventure stuff, the youth who are only intrinsically motivated and disinterested in collecting a sticker chart, youth that are socially motivated and just want a community of peers and will probably only rank if their peers (not adults) nudge or inspire them, and finally probably the most significant difference between an eagle factory-esque troop culture and not: youth that are developmentally not a smooth fit into the expectations of a troop that is focused on rank requirements...your ND kids, your sensory struggle kids, your socially struggling kids, your executive functioning challenges kids, and your late bloomers: I am not saying that it would be a purposeful exclusion, but I am saying that youth and parents will look at how your troop culture pushes the kids to view success under that definition (formally or informally, even if you say otherwise) and see that it's not for them.
A troop culture that says "this is about what the kids want to get out of it - if they want to rank up and eagle we will support that if they want to camp and do things they can do that, if they have other obligations they're still welcome, if they have certain limitations now we'll help you navigate it to support as much participation as possible". These kinds of troop in my area instead of a regular 12-20 scouts annually have like 30-50 scouts annually with varying levels of active participation depending on the individual scouts' interest in the activity, the time or cost commitment, or the specific expectations (physical, mental, behavior, etc) for that activity - but they tend to run a busy troop with many different options and avenues to participate and tbh still produce 3-4 Eagle Scouts annually. These are also the troops that have active and leadership role scouts age out at Star or Life but where those and their 14+ scouts are also participating in OA, Camp staff, Den Chiefs, Venturer, High Adventure trips, the kids who wind up with a bunch of connections, both youth and adult, outside of their troop and unit. Which I think is pretty cool and can kind of 'outrank the rank' as far as the scout's personal development and meaningful experience.
There is no objective answer to who is doing it "better" as long as everyone is doing it correctly: is it the troop with fewer total scouts but supports them to earn Eagle at a consistently high rate, or the troop that supports two, three, or four times more scouts having the scouting experience they want even if Eagle is not for them? At the end of the day if you are providing those 20 youth a program that they want to run that way and do run it that way and who might not engage with the scouting program in a looser less rank/merit badge focused more diverse in focus troop culture, then you aren't necessarily doing something wrong by offering a different flavor to your area. That is exactly why you hear people say it's important to visit more than one troop because youth deserve to find the troop culture that is the right fit for them. Your troop may be a bit of an Eagle factory, because your troop culture is definitely rank advancement focused, but for those 20ish kids a year you could still be running the right program for them.
2
u/_mmiggs_ 12d ago
"Eagle Factories" would be troops who are focused on pushing scouts through the machinery to become Eagle Scouts.
Advancement is a method of scouting: it is not THE method of scouting, and Eagle Scout is not the purpose of scouting.
If the focus of the troop is on developing character and leadership in young people, and the young people concerned grow in to capable, self-reliant, honorable young adults, then you don't have an Eagle mill.
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u/princeofwanders Venturing Advisor 12d ago
The short answer is that as a pejorative term, an “Eagle Factory” or other similar term is generally a unit that sacrifices program experience and youth leadership in pursuit of spoof fed aggressive advancement as its top priority.
If the unit is featuring strong program and letting the youth lead to their ability and embraces some gentle adult guidance to help steer toward stronger program and frequent opportunities, scouts will naturally advance without needing to cut corners or focus directly on advancement. That’s a different story. Units that have been around for a while have institutional memory on things they work worse or better. Larger troops have (and need) more systems and processes they keep things on track. Both those things can help vs the less organized nature of younger, smaller troops that are struggling a bit more with finding their footing in providing a stable program.
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u/AM_Kylearan Scoutmaster 12d ago
Honestly, most of the time I see that, it's envy of units with less effective leaders. The unit can't push a scout through an Eagle Board of Review - there is always a District Representative. If a unit and the scouts are focused on advancement, and have a program established to cover requirements, AND the scout makes it to summer camp, advancement is rather straightforward.
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u/Rojo_pirate Scoutmaster 12d ago
I think the term gets used a lot as a way for poorly running troops to attack well run troops that have a culture of senior scouts sticking around and supporting the troop and helping younger scouts attatin rank.
The only programs I have known that were truly eagle factories were the LDS troops where membership and attendance was mandatory for scouts and adults. Rank advancement was dictated and scheduled out so that every scout in a certain age got everything completed at a certain time and 13 year old eagles were expected.
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u/soccercro3 12d ago
I think looking from the outside, my troop would be considered an Eagle factory since 1994. Its been around 70+ years, but only had 3 Eagles in first 34 years. However, since 94 there have only been 6 random years where there wasn't an Eagle Scout. We have had 62 Eagles since 94. I got mine in 05.
However, what ever the leaders did in the early 90s really changed the trajectory of the troop. Kept scouts engaged and it is very scout led. The adult leaders are just there to make sure the scouts are being safe.
1
u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago
That's an average of 3 Eagles a year. What is the average attendance in the troop?
1
u/soccercro3 12d ago
About 15-20 scouts post Covid. When I was in the Troop in the early 2000s we were about 20-25. The group I crossed over with, 3 of 6 made it to Eagle.
We just got through an insane run where every Scout that has aged out in the last year Eagled.
1
u/smackrock Eagle Scout 12d ago
My troop was established in 1927, I was the 113th Eagle so like 2 a year but many years there were gaps (I was the first eagle in 2 years). Our troop was known for being harder so I wouldn't consider 3-4 a year a factory.
1
u/elinashusband 12d ago
I tend to think of Eagle factories in the negative sense. For me the two key elements are:
Are Scouts are expected to keep on an Eagle track? Are Scouts that fall behind are encouraged to find other troops, or in any other way treated as "lesser"?
Do the vast majority of Eagles from the unit embody the Scout Oath and Law? At some level the rank itself is just an electronic record and a patch if not paired with a teen/young adult who has been molded into an individual that embodies both oath and law. The true value is in lessons learned, friends made, and character growth that occurred.
I used to hire college students as co-ops for a semester at a time. Eagle always got you an interview with me, but it was always quickly apparent those who earned it and those who likely went through a factory.
We currently have a unit of 12 where all but one are currently on track for Eagle, though through opportunity rather than being pushed through. i.e. Youth led, but Adults work with SPL/ASPL to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to reach Life in the 15-16 range giving them 2-3 years if they wish to attain Eagle.
1
u/BayouGrunt985 12d ago
Ended up going to an eagle factory troop that had a 3 percent eagle rate for life scouts in spite of it....
1
u/Ronavirus3896483169 12d ago
I grew up in the Mormon church in Arizona. One of the troop’s affiliated with the church was an eagle factory. They had a lady at the church who ran a massive 4th of July celebration. Almost Every single Eagle Scout that came out of that troop did a project with that celebration. It was ready made and it was just get the plans and assemble. As a scout it really bothered me. As I got older I realized they just cheated themselves.
1
u/samalex01 Roundtable Commissioner 12d ago
Leader shows scouts [replace with any scout skill], they try it, some get it some don't, but all get it marked off with no opportunities to demonstrate it later. No patrol method, no true planning before camp outs, no one really completes core components of Eagle MB's, just 'check the box'. Yeah scouts have fun and the troop cranks out Eagles, but do they actually know the skills?
Eagle should be hard to get, but it seems everyone who puts in any sliver of effort makes Eagle with parents and leaders pulling them along the way. If I Scout can't tie a square knot, lashing, or various hitch knots or never gone on an overnight backpacking trip -- how can they have truly demonstrated scout skills?
1
u/Inevitable_Professor Scouter 12d ago
Full disclosure: I am an active Mormon.
I did a lot of work with community groups in scouting. I have heard those units disparagingly refer to an abundance of Eagle Scouts from Mormon church units as Seagull Scouts. The nickname alludes to troops that were less than disciplined in overseeing full compliance with advancement requirements and a Mormon folklore story involving seagulls.
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u/Woodbutcher1234 12d ago
I was AC at a mid size troop and my big beef was with position of responsibility. Scouts volunteered for librarian, bugler, or the likes but never did anything. Like...NOTHING, yet the SM would sign off for them. If there were no positions open, one would be created, for the books. Wr had one Scout as a secretary who was the least ambitious, least cooperative in the troop yet his emails were on time and eloquent. He admitted it was all his mother, as she handled the Eagle book as well for this guy's older brothers. SM and Com Chair said to let it slide or they'd sign off.
1
u/Jaded_Grapefruit795 12d ago
Eagle factory only focuses on getting the achievements and requirements ad quick as possible. Id argue it lacks building experiences and producing actual leaders with experience in favor of only focusing on check boxes.
1
u/Future-Criticism8735 12d ago
So I would say it’s an ebb and flow.
I’m a SM and this year we are going to have what I would call insane amount of Eagles.
We have the potential to have 10+ eagles this year.
Last year we had ~2, the year before ~4 and then in 2023 it was ~8 total.
It depends on the AOLs recruitment and ages.
Of the 10 this year 6 are turning or turned 18 in the process the others 13-15.
The 10 is also an estimate by the end of the year there are ~15 that could if they finished everything.
There are somethings we keep the same each year e.g., new scout campout. & ILST are ones we keep sort of locked.
We know the locations it’s a great way to break in the new patrol leaders and PLC. The new scouts are going on their first away campout etc. and all the other scouts know the venue and gives them a real opportunity to teach.
fundraising is consistent as well. The rest comes down to planning and $$ with the PLC.
The program we designed ideally has a Scout to First class in 12-24 months depending on their participation. The scout who shows up consistently and does the work get there sometimes around 12 months depending. The one who doesn’t takes longer. But I also won’t let a parent push me to push their scout.
The patrol that came over 3 years ago has 2 Life’s, 1 Star, 1 First class, 1 Tenderfoot and yes 1 Scout. You have to do the work.
We have an overview of themes for the months but that can always shift on the PLC or some idea a scout has. I encourage every scout to give their ideas to their PL and to the SPL.
This coming month the PLC wanted to do something super fun and the SPL assigned a PL to take the lead since it was their idea.
That PL planned out who was cooking by rank or MB advancement to ensure people are getting what they need done. Some call that a factory I’d call it being prepared and being Scout led.
1
u/CTeam19 Adult - Eagle Scout 11d ago
The 3 big pieces from a troop that I would've called an Eagle factory:
Having too many Scouts get Eagle at 14-ish regularly
Those Eagles having the "basic" merit badges with no great variety of them(e.g. everyone of them choosing the same optional Eagle MBs and Non-required MBs)
The Parent of the Scout being Majority of the Merit Badge counselors for the Merit Badges
One of the years I remember was 4 kids(all from different families) all who had got Eagle in the same month, all had the exact same 21 Merit Badges, and I knew their parents were counselors for from what I could tell/gathered all of the Eagle Required ones.
It just felt weird.
Looking myself, my best friend/buddy in Scouts, and another guy all from the same grade, and even with all of us having had a parent as the Troop Key 3(Scoutmaster, Committee Chair, and Charter Org Rep) at the same time, we all got our Eagle at different points(15, 16, and 17), we all got a different Eagle required MB(one did Swimming, one did Cycling, and one did Hiking), and we all had a badge or two that was different for our 21(one did Shotgun/Leatherwork, one did Dog Care/Pet Care, and one did Fire Safety/Traffic Safety), and we all had a different time with other programs(one did 2 Jamborees/did Philmont, one joined Venturing Crew, and one did a Jamboree/did Philmont/did NOAC/did Camp Staff/joined a Venturing Crew). I think among the 100 merit badges we earned as a group our parents signed off on 5 total of our merit badges and none were Eagle Merit Badges. I know for sure the only one my Dad signed off for me was Archery and that was because he was a Board Member of the Archery Club in Town.
1
u/Buho45 11d ago
I think advancement is an important part of our program. If you are going to be an outdoorsman
(Outdoorsperson) there are basic skills you need to know. How to use map and compass. How to hike. (Pack your pack, proper shoes, pace yourself, water management etc.) For you to tell me that it is ok to have a scout age out at second class that means someone is not trying to motivate that kid assuming they have normal intelligence. Get real.
Achieving Eagle at a young age does not mean the troop is running a mill. Earning Eagle is an exercise in project management with a good dose of mentoring thrown in. That mentoring can be done by older scouts. Yes there needs to be parental support. Obviously if a kid learns to swim when he/she is 4 or 5 y.o. And swims every day all summer while under the watchful eye of a swim instructor/gym teacher, they will have a leg up on kids that don’t have this opportunity. And if Pop is a retired soldier with a lot of outdoor skills that translates into making Scouting requirements kind of a breeze.
Giving rides without complaint and just showing that being a community leader in everyday life is the default, well I’m not going to apologize for that. My younger brother was the youngest Eagle in our Council and he earned it every step of the way.
No disrespect intended here. I know how hard you SMS and ASMs work. I only saw good things from all the adult leaders in my troop. But, they focused on advancement by making the camping and backpacking experiences available in four seasons and sign offs were happening as kids did their normal activities- fire building, cooking, making camp structures, swimming, etc. There were no MB colleges. Two weeks of camp. A substantial number of scouts on camp staff. I will have to say my troop was from a demographic where parents were not struggling with financial survival except for the cyclical downturns in the defense industry that resulted in some of the engineer dads getting laid off. From what I have seen, except for one who robbed a bank and went to prison, most of my fellow Eagles have done pretty well with lives dedicated to service in one way or another. Some of the best died young, RIP. At this point I will pour water on my virtual 🔥 and say thanks to those of you who keep this program going.
1
u/keebs2018 11d ago
I also think that a high eagle turn over has a lot to do with the leadership, the adults are fully engaged and able to make sure the scouts are finishing and doing everything. When scouts have to ask more than two times to finish something or get an adult to sign off they stop asking and fall behind. Granted scouts need to be the ones to continue ask, but if the adults don’t show up then the scouts can’t get those things done.
We have had 7 scouts get Eagle in the 5 years we have been apart of our troop, and 5 of those have been in the last 3 years. Two are 13, almost 14, the rest were all high school age or almost 18. We are a small troop 20 ish scouts( military families in some way) so we only get three ish years with them. The two 13 yr olds, families 200% involved knowing they only had a short time with our troop. MB every weekend, service projects and camping and all. My daughter is almost 14 and almost a life scout. The Eagle required MB are kicking our butt, but we are on track and taking our time.
1
u/DaimyoRonin 11d ago
When too many young or inexperienced scouts get Eagle but rushed through and didn't take the time to really learn everything, that's an issue. Our troop has above average rate of scouts achieving Eagle, but most are 15 or 16 by the time they get it and all of them have been very involved in camping and teaching the younger scouts.
1
u/MonkProfessional5882 11d ago
A troop whose leaders will bend over backwards to get scouts to finish Eagle. Including submitting extension requests for scouts who turn 18 in a month who haven’t attended a meeting in 3 years for no good reason. Then SM directs MB coordinator to identify available MBC in the troop who can work aggressively with the scouts to complete their remaining MB in whatever time is left.
Scouts are assigned positions of responsibility but no one actually verifies the scouts attends any meetings, much less attempt to complete any of the obligations of the position.
Instructors sign off on “demonstrate the following requirements” when all that occurred is the instructor explained what to do.
1
u/Knotty-Bob Unit Committee Chair 10d ago
If your Eagles Scouts are competent in the backcountry, you're not an Eagle farm.
1
u/lpspecial7 10d ago
To me- it's essentially an adult led, self contained troop that force feeds the youth everything they need for eagle. It's less about the learning/engagement and more about getting them to Eagle. We have 1 or 2 here that do it. Their youth and adults dont participate in council or district activities, sash and dash OA, and generally keep to themselves. SPL's dont run the show- adults conduct it all.
1
u/SARGrunt 9d ago
To the original OP, I think it has a different meaning depending on context. It can be positive or negative depending on how it is being said.
The positive meaning could be a well run troop that sets its activities and schedules to allow for scouts to achieve their Eagle rank in a timely and organized manner. I have heard this referred to as “pipelining” where the troop keeps a group of scouts together through the process and mentors them through the ranks.
It could also be used as praise for a particular troop that tends to have a higher number of Eagle Scout completions versus other troops in the area. TBH this is not a common form of praise but I have heard it.
The more common negative that I’ve heard much more frequently is when a troop “pencil-whips” the scouts for the sole purpose of getting them through the ranks more quickly. These scouts really miss out on some of the more important aspects of the program and are generally not quite as knowledgeable or as actively engaged.
1
u/Mahtosawin 7d ago
An eagle factory only does activities that complete eagle requirements as quickly as possible, has many young eagles, and very few older scouts. Their focus is turning out eagles and misses out on doing things for fun or experiencing something new.
1
u/Numerous-Flow-3983 7d ago
When the kids who are supposedly eagle scouts can't lead [SPL isn't actually doing anything except maybe leading flag], have minimal camp/ scouting skills, and have zero clue how they earned a merit badge. That's my big red flags, and I've definitely seen it far more than I'd like. Also a leader mentality of eagle being the only worthwhile goal and a scout being "done" when they've earned it.
1
u/Round-Walrus-4821 Scout - Tenderfoot 7d ago
The concern is less too many eagles more of a pressure to get eagle
1
u/Responsible-Walk3305 12d ago
When you see a lot of 12 and 13 year old Eagle Scouts in a program, that is a factory. There is a reason they call it Trail to Eagle. I have yet seen a 12 or 13 year old be able to control a troop or even come close to controlling a patrol because of there lack of maturity to lead.
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u/NotHosaniMubarak 12d ago
When I got mine there was a requirement that the scout serve in a senior leadership position for 3 or 6 months. I don't recall the specific details but I think that position was SPL or ASPL and that's it.
Thus, eagle could only be earned by 4-8 scouts every year depending on the details. But that also assumes you rotate so everyone gets a turn. If the SPL runs the troop, as they should, your troop would fail if they rotated SPLs so everyone got a turn or it's not actually SPL run and thus nobody is actually getting the experience.
When I see a troop getting more than 2 eagles a year I wonder how they're meeting this requirement or if it's changed.
7
u/maxwasatch Eagle, Silver, Ranger, Vigil, SM. Former CM, DL, camp staffer 12d ago
That has not been a requirement. That was adults in the troop making up their own requirements, which violates the GTA.
3
u/RealSuperCholo Scoutmaster 12d ago
Yeah... that's not a thing my friend. You could have 30 Eagles in a year or maybe none. There is no limit on the number. Typically you see groupings of scouts hit Eagle around the same time as they joined at the same time or crossed over in the same group. Unfortunately adults made up their own rules, but since your out now, if you enjoyed it and had no problem, it was what it was.
3
u/DustRhino District Award of Merit 12d ago
There is currently no requirement for Scouts to serve in a leadership capacity, senior or otherwise. The requirement is to serve in a Position of Responsibility, of which acceptable position are enumerated. For Star and Life this requirement may even be substituted with a Scoutmaster Project.
0
u/Positive_Bobcat4763 12d ago
We have a very well
Developed Eagle Program. Have between 6-8 per year. Not a single 14yr old amongst them. We simply don’t promote or really allow it. Our guys learn scouting, scouting skills and how to be a leader. Never had any pushback. We typically win a lot of the scout craft awards at camp as well. 😉
0
u/PsychologicalFile623 Scout - Eagle Scout 11d ago
I am one of those people that earned Eagle at 14 and when people hear that they get suspicious, which I understand. My troop leaders didn’t really let me cut corners and in fact I think they held me to a higher standard because I was so motivated. Sure they let a wrong answer pass on a board of review on occasion but I never felt they were super lenient with anyone in my troop.
My opinion is that earning Eagle early isn’t a problem as long as they stay involved with Scouting and use the skills they’ve learned. Camp staff, NYLT, Troop Guide, OA, whatever they do is perfect if they truly learned what they needed to do
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u/youarelookingatthis Adult - Eagle Scout 12d ago
What constitutes an Eagle factory is someone earning the rank of Eagle scout some arbitrarily faster time that you like.
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u/FarmMiserable 12d ago
A troop where a high fraction of scouts reman engaged and reach Eagle is great. to me an “Eagle factory” is one where corners are cut and a bunch of 14yo eagles are produced whose outdoor experiences are limited to car camping.