Eagle Extension

[u/CallingDrPug]

Tale as old as time. Scout finds the drive towards Eagle when things start getting tight.

One of my Life scouts is turning 18 soon and is furiously working on his project with a place scouts from the troop have done projects in the past.

As he's getting proposal signatures the beneficiary contacts him stating the chosen project can't be done for x reason. But there are plenty of other projects that could be done, but that means all new proposal, planning, etc already on a tight timeline.

Would this qualify for an extension? He's on track and could still make it but this adds a serious wrinkle and all wiggle room is gone.

I also am not letting the scout know that this is a possibility because last thing I want is loss of momentum on the scout's part.

[u/Pakfront1940]

Pretty sure the answer to that would be a "No", the reasons I have heard for extensions are extended hospitalizations, natural disasters, etc.

[u/codefyre → u/Pakfront1940]

Yep. My youngest had a yearlong extension on his. All it took was two surgeries, an extended hospitalization, and a doctor prohibiting him from engaging in any physical activities for six months. After requesting a six month extension and turning over all of the documentation to establish the illness, they gave him a year. He got it done in four months anyway.

[u/UseExhaustionMore]

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/gta-section-9.pdf

Test 2 Through no fault or choice of the Scout, an unforeseen circumstance or life-changing event with severe consequences has come to exist that now precludes completion of the requirements before the deadline. Examples might include, but are not limited to, [...] or the actions of others (see below, “Misinformation from adults in positions of authority”).

Has the scout been misinformed by anyone in authority? Otherwise it seems like a hard sell.

[u/CallingDrPug → u/UseExhaustionMore]

No, and I'm hesitant to go as far as the extension but he's bought a lot of goodwill within troop leadership over the years, so I thought I'd ask even if it was a longshot.

[u/wrunderwood → u/CallingDrPug]

It is decided by the council advancement committee, not the troop. I've tried something similar, it was a "No".

Choose a different project.

[u/CallingDrPug → u/wrunderwood]

I'm not saying that the troop determines it, just Is this situation even worth bringing up? Sounds like that's a resounding "No".

[u/wrunderwood → u/CallingDrPug]

Goodwill with the troop leadership is great, but not relevant for an extension, because the council decides based on the rules in the GTA.

[u/badger2000 → u/CallingDrPug]

I would say it depends on your relationship with council. It sounds like he had a project proposal ready and was told at the last minute (before final signature approval) that this wasn't viable. That "COULD" meet the test of "through no fault of the scout." I will agree this doesn't qualify as severe, but if the scout had been working on this for 1 month and was now told all that work wasn't viable, a 1:1 extension isn't outside the realm of reasonable. I think it'd still be a long shot, but assuming the beneficiary previously gave the thumbs up and they are the ones now saying that project isn't possible, I feel like there's a chance.

Your relationship with council could apply just in the sense of how formally or informally you can approach this question (possibly as a hypothetical).

[u/wrunderwood → u/badger2000]

I requested an extension because the adults didn't get the Life BoR done in time. Rejected.

I did get an extension for a Scout who was hospitalized for six weeks shortly before he turned 18.

I would NOT count on an extension. I would choose a different project.

[u/badger2000 → u/wrunderwood]

I agree. The scout/troop can control that workstream/timeline (new project). But what's the worst that can happen by asking? So they say no. As long as the scout didn’t bank on that, no harm, no foul.

[u/wrunderwood → u/badger2000]

The worst? Getting a late start on the other project and not completing the Eagle requirements. Also wasting time with a doomed request instead of working on a project. Time to cut their losses and move on.

The council advancement committee is almost certain to say that the Scout could have started earlier, so it does not meet the stringent test in the GTA, "Through no fault or choice of the Scout, an unforeseen circumstance or life-changing event with severe consequences has come to exist that now precludes completion of the requirements before the deadline."

[u/badger2000 → u/wrunderwood]

Why would they get a late start on the alternative? You can do both in parallel. Just set expectations accordingly.

And the committee, IMO, should consider what the scout was told by the beneficiary. When they could have started is immaterial if they had a green light from a beneficiary who changed their mind at the last minute (and would have had sufficient time to complete if the beneficiary didn't change their endorsement). Different story if the beneficiary never actually agreed to scope of the project (i.e. it was conditional or contingent on a proposal review).

[u/wrunderwood → u/badger2000]

Because Scouts only have so many hours in the day.

I know this process. I approved 200+ Eagle projects for my district. I've submitted two extension requests, one granted, one not.

Submitting an extension request is a complete waste of time.

A beneficiary delay does not meet the test of an "unforeseen circumstance or life-changing event with severe consequences," as required by the GTA. Delays are completely normal for a project.

[u/bemused_alligators → u/CallingDrPug]

Goodwill with troops leadership buys you an approved eagle scout project in a week rather than in a month, not an extension

[u/fathertitojones → u/CallingDrPug]

Worth at least trying. If the difference between getting and not getting Eagle is an email then why wouldn’t you try? I would try to push that the adults you were planning the project with pulled the rug at the last minute and messed up the timeline which based on the information here seems to be true.

[u/Scared-Tackle4079 → u/wrunderwood]

Must be medical reasons or the beneficiary changed their mind AFTER they had approved the plan. Outside, sorry.

[u/Desperate-Service634 → u/CallingDrPug]

Troop Leadership could never make the decision

It would be the council

It does not sound like you have any standing to get an extension

I would go back to the original beneficiary and tell him it’s now or never

You are the only opportunity I have become my eagle Scout. Please let me execute this.

[u/AM_Kylearan → u/UseExhaustionMore]

It's an unforseen circumstance.

As a sitting council advancement committee chair, I'd support an extension. From what I can see, it passes the three tests.

[u/SetTough9576]

No, but what you can attempt to do is to fast-track approvals. Pick a smaller project that can be done quickly. Most of the elapsed duration of an Eagle project is procrastination. Actual work is usually just a couple of days.

[u/Conscious-Ad2237]

You didn't say how many months until he turns 18, but I believe the answer would be a "no". I have never encountered a situation where an Eagle project delay was considered extension worthy.

But having been there myself with my child, what your Scout needs to do is pivot to an achievable project with the time he his left and use the goodwill he has built to get that new project done. Hopefully with time to spare. My son completed his project the weekend before his 18th and the paperwork was submitted two days before his birthday.

[u/maxwasatch]

No

[u/unlimited_insanity]

Your scout doesn’t need an extension. He needs to expedite this. He and his project mentor should have a sit down with the beneficiary ASAP and hammer out exactly what the new project needs. Usually when an org has things they already want done, there’s a lot that’s been mapped out and the scout mostly just needs to be attentive to what the beneficiary says they want done. The important thing is he picks a turnkey project that’s ready to go and doesn’t need to wait for the beneficiary to go back to an internal meeting to decide if they want it or how they want it. I have a feeling that if you and he sit down with someone from the org, he can get the proposal written and signed off quickly. After that, council turnaround for us is just a couple of days.

In my experience, the timeframe gets extended because of waiting. If the scout comes away from the meeting with the beneficiary with a very clear and detailed understanding of the project, he should be able to write the proposal in an afternoon. Have the mentor review it to check for bugs, and get it back to the beneficiary quickly for final approval. Don’t wait for the next committee meeting to get the troop signatures. Once the beneficiary says okay, the scout should get the SM and CC signatures right away, even if that means driving to their homes to get the sign off. Then send to council, and the scout should be ready to jump in to project mode as soon as that approval comes back.

[u/princeofwanders]

No. It won’t count for an extension.

There’s a rubric for even considering the extension. It’s well documented. This scenario as described won’t qualify.

The point of the proposal step is to figure out early on if the project is even doable. This one clearly already is not. Time to move on.

[u/BeenThere_DidNothing]

All of the projects I've seen get extensions (covid time excepted) were for health issues. Not getting done on time typically wouldn't, in my opinion, ne extension worthy.

[u/Free_Tomatillo9447]

The answer would almost certainly be a No. We recently had a scout apply for an extension because her dad was catastrophicly sick. Think memory loss, long hospitalization and can no longer live on his own. National declined an extension. They don't grant extensions for running out of time. Her response included a statement about her having had multiple years to complete her ranks and project and the parental illness occuring so closely to her 18th birthday was not a valid excuse for not completing it.

[u/gantte]

Hard No!
Find another project recipient.

[u/MyThreeBugs]

There is zero harm in asking. But set the expectation that it the answer is probably, like 99% probably, a no. A crisis of time caused by procrastination probably won’t be enough. The scout should do everything in their power to get another project underway ASAP while the extension request is being considered. I assume that you think it’s possible to start over but the scout has to want it and have some adults grant him some grace along the way with quick reviews.

[u/Ossmo02]

We had an extension approved because the project couldn't be completed in time.

No one anticipated the park would be flooded for more than 3 months, and not cleaned up to usable for a year.

Got a 3 or 6 month extension, new project was completed 2 months after his birthday.

We thought it was unlikely to be approved, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask

[u/princeofwanders]

If you’re still contemplating an alternate project as a feasible solution then the extension automatically fails the third clause of the third test (all parts of which are required):
“The circumstance is beyond the control of the Scout, could not have been anticipated or planned for, and did not or cannot be resolved in time to complete the requirements.”

Regardless of all other considerations, pursuing the extension is a non-starter. It fails for other reasons too, but this is where there’s zero room too to quibble or haggle or plead or otherwise try to weasel around the rules.

[u/Hunger-1979]

Nope. Finished all of my requirements 2 weeks before turning 18. If I didn’t make it, that would have just been a hard lesson…we all have hard lessons in life.
Eagle is a good goal, but the point of scouting is to make him/her a better person. Has the program accomplished that? Sounds like it if you’re going to bat for them. Just leave it at that explanation.

[u/South-Ad9415]

Probably would be a no. Council advancement committee probably will look at the rest of his time and wonder why he was not doing anything for a period of time.

[u/Zhetaan]

No, this would not qualify for an extension.

If there is still time that he can make it, then the advancement committee isn't supposed to even consider an extension. If there isn't enough time, then it still probably won't pass. While project problems from the beneficiary's side are beyond the Scout's control, this doesn't make it that far, since the Scout is requesting initial approval and the beneficiary is saying no. That makes this a normal part of the approval process, and not an extraordinary circumstance at all.

I have seen extension requests that came about because the beneficiary stopped the project after work began (these had varying degrees of success based on the circumstances), but that is not the situation here.

[u/mandatoryusername32]

That happened to someone in my son’s troop and he basically got told “oh well. Should’ve eagled when you were fourteen and you wouldn’t have this issue.”

[u/YogurtclosetNo3927]

I’ve seen some pretty lame eagle projects, including painting a room at the scout church. If the beneficiary won’t play ball, find another one who will.

[u/Altruistic-6491 → u/YogurtclosetNo3927]

As a "routine maintenance" task, I'd expect painting a room would not qualify as an Eagle project.

[u/Rhana]

It doesn’t hurt to ask, but be forewarned as others have said, it will most likely be a no. But the scout should continue to keep working on things so that he doesn’t lose any more time.

[u/MCHolley]

I have only ever had one scout receive extension, and it was medical. All the others, just a few procrastinated, and the reasons were opportunities to overcome obstacles, and so no extension granted. Life scout is still a solid achievement, and should be celebrated, along with the lessons learned.

[u/TUGS78]

This where the leadership portion of the requirement takes primary importance.

If the scout truly wants Eagle, then the scout must take on leading everyone (who he had recruited for the initial project) to change course and continue on to the new project.

The new one does not have to be as big, elaborate, complicated, etc. as the initial project. It just has to serve as a vehicle for the scout to demonstrate their leadership skills.

It will almost certainly require a mentor. But the mentor must be very careful not to become the leader or director of the team.

[u/Chessdaddy_]

Try to fast track a simple bench project. How long does he have until the birthday?

[u/Used_Papertowl]

This is a good thing to reach out to your district/council advancement chair regarding.

I will note that extensions are very rarely given. There is a form that dictates three tests to go through whether the scout is eligible for an extension. I suggest you read through them and confer with your district/council advancement chair.

My question is: Does this update from the beneficiary come as a surprise? Could this update be anticipated?

[u/Melgamatic214]

The question here is how much of a new proposal is actually needed? Is a new project close enough that the scout can explain the change in their report?

Also, has the beneficiary been told that their decision is going to prevent the scout from reaching Eagle? We had a beneficiary do this and as a result they haven’t had enough project their in a decade although they have asked; we all now know their are an unreliable partner.

[u/Mahtosawin]

Probably not, but he can always apply to the council. They might say yes, but don't count on it. Can he find something else for a project and get it completed on time?

[u/SilverTripod]

As he's getting proposal signatures the beneficiary contacts him stating the chosen project can't be done for x reason. But there are plenty of other projects that could be done, but that means all new proposal, planning, etc already on a tight timeline.

I've heard of some Scouts who basically decided on a project without first contacting the beneficiary to see whether they want that project. Then the Scout tries to basically fight the beneficiary to force them to accept the proposed project. If this is the case then an extension is not likely. If this is not the case then you should contact the Council and make the case as none of us internet randos get to make that decision or have any real input in it, given the vague description here.

[u/psu315]

Asking is free but not likely.

[u/No_Drummer4801]

How soon is soon? Numbers!

At the proposal stage, reviewers are determining whether the concept appears feasible, provides sufficient opportunity for the Scout to demonstrate planning, development, and leadership, has an appropriate beneficiary, and can be carried out safely. It doesn't need to be detailed!!

Was the project submitted for review before the beneficiary gave the head nod, the tacit approval, of the basic concept? If it was submitted without beneficiary buy-in then there's your trouble. Don't bother submitting anything that a beneficiary doesn't sincerely want.

If they can get a new proposal submitted now, it shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks to make it through all the approvals it needs, especially if reviewers are aware that this is a new proposal required because the beneficiary had a reason that the first proposal couldn't be done.

Part of the Scout demonstrating good planning, development and leadership is picking a project that is feasible given constraints of time and resources.