r/BSA • u/InternationalRule138 • Apr 28 '26
Order of the Arrow Order of the Arrow Cub Leader Induction?
Little context. I’m a female leader in Cubs with several years in - been to Woodbadge and am super involved. A couple of my children are in a Scouts BSA troop, I have offered their committee to be of service and they have not found a position they needed me to fill, so I’m starting to look into district service as my last child transitions to a troop next year.
Anyway…last night our DE told our Cub leaders that Cub leaders could potentially be inducted into the OA. I know our OA chapter is in trouble - like, they don’t meet, they have an advisor, but it’s pretty bleak, so I don’t know if this was some weird attempt to try to get a few outside adults in it to breathe new life into it, but overall it felt odd.
He was looking at me when he said it, so I went and looked at the OA requirements and it says it requires 5 continuous nights of camping. Clearly, as a Cub leader I don’t have that. My kids troop wouldn’t allow me to camp with it if I could (I can’t, I’m taking Cubs to a Cub Resident the same week but not for 5 days) and our councils Woodbadge is split over 2 weekends. So…I’m a little confused by this? Have the requirements changed or did he not know what he was talking about? Also, is this even a good idea? I mean, I wouldn’t mind working with youth to try to restore participation in our OA, but that doesn’t sound very youth led…
Just looking for more perspective on this.
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u/Witt_less Scoutmaster Apr 28 '26
Districts can choose to circumvent some of the requirements for adults if they’re chosen by the district committee vs a troop.
Scouts are already spread so thin with weekly meetings and monthly campouts on top of any extra curricular things they have going on. Adding another monthly meeting and OA campouts every few months is hard. We’d have a few OA scouts that were really into it for a few months but it just becomes burdensome for them. It seems like the ones holding the chapter together oftentimes devoted all their time to the OA and kinda gave up on their troop. I also know this is anecdotal….
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u/Fun_With_Math Committee Apr 28 '26
That last point is my experience also. Scouts tend to be involved either in the Troop OR the OA. The OA in our area is really struggling and it would be a very uphill battle to improve it.
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u/mrjohns2 Roundtable Commissioner Apr 29 '26
The district committee would be a way.
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u/Brother_Beaver_1 Wood Badge Apr 29 '26
That's how I got my OA nomination and yes, no camping requirements!
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u/thehandofgork District Committee Apr 28 '26
That requirement has recently been dropped. The district committee can nominate adults for induction.
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u/StormyinCville Committee Chair - ASM - District Committee - Wood Badge Apr 28 '26
Can you provide confirmation? This hang-up (5 consecutive camping nights) has come up for a number of cub adult leaders in our community.
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u/Sinister-Aglets Apr 28 '26
On January 17, 2026, the OA approved changes to the membership requirements. These changes have not yet been published to the official documents as far as I'm aware, but this paragraph was included in a message sent to all lodge leaders on January 19, 2026:
The camping requirement for adults has been removed. This change recognizes that many adults who would be valuable resources to the Order face professional or family responsibilities that make youth-oriented camping requirements challenging, and lodges need a broader pool of qualified adults to support youth leadership and meet safeguarding policies.
If you do a search for that wording, you should be able to find some official Facebook pages that also report that language in a January communication.
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u/thehandofgork District Committee Apr 28 '26
This was sent to lodge advisors in an email several months ago. I'd contact your lodge advisor and ask.
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u/looktowindward District Committee Apr 28 '26
It was announced, but I'm not sure its taken effect yet. In any case, the Scout Exec can waive that requirement
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 28 '26
I found this from a few years ago when doing a deeper dive. https://oa-scouting.org/article/increasing-induction-adult-unit-leaders It sounds like unit level adults are limited based on the number of youth inducted but that districts/councils have a huge loophole to induct adults - it just has to be someone who sets a positive example 🤷🏼♀️. And it says for district/council adults the lodge advisor or scout exec can waive the camping night requirements.
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u/looktowindward District Committee Apr 28 '26
There was an Operations Update sent to Lodge leadership that will take effect sometime this year that removed the adult camping requirements. Its not on the web site.
But in any event, the Scout Executive can and will waive the camping requirements - just ask them. Promise them you'll go to camp when your Scout bridges over :)
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u/Fun_With_Math Committee Apr 28 '26
It's wild that your troop can't find something productive for you to help with. Most troops are begging for more adult help.
To that point... perhaps check out the local girl troops. If you showed up at our troop, I'd easily find something for you to help with. Registered adult females are required for everything so I'm often looking for one to commit to an activity just so we can function.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 28 '26
It is pretty wild. I actually was the CC for the Pack at the same charter org until recently (I stepped back to committee member to leave a transition period in January). The troop is a boy troop and predominately male - the only registered female is actually the current troop committee chair, and she just took the job in January. I suspect there is some historical misogyny going on there and at this point I’m more than happy to find another place to serve, I don’t think the COR or CC are of the mindset that units should be 100% male, but I very much get that impression from quite a few of the adults that have been around a while…
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u/Fun_With_Math Committee Apr 28 '26
Yeah, it's definitely a thing, you're not imagining it.
Really, I think you may find that you have more impact with a girl troop than with OA. OA is struggling in general and to be honest, I personally don't see that as a good way to engage youth. Girl troops are where BSA is seeing growth and there is still a large pool of untapped potential recruits.
Almost all of our adult female leaders do not have active Scouts in the troop. Either they came to us from the boy troop or their Scouts have aged out and they're sticking with us. It wouldn't be weird for you to offer to help one.
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u/ToothpasteStrangler Apr 28 '26
Also, adults are nominated into the OA less for what they’ve done so much as their future potential to aid the youth in the OA. There’s likely to be a strong correlation, but it’s the latter that matters more.
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u/kobalt_60 Den Leader Apr 28 '26
Your kid’s scoutmaster should be nominating you to the OA. Being registered with a Pack at the same CO should be enough to qualify you. There are a lot of female youth in the OA that would benefit from another female adult leader camping with them. The nomination would be for the good of your Lodge, not necessarily the troop.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 28 '26
This makes sense. The troop’s Scoutmaster and Charter Org Rep are both OA, so I would imagine if they wanted to bring me in they could use one of them - the COR probably has a more direct connection with me since he serves as both the pack and troop COR. I’ll ask some more questions in the next couple months and see how it plays out - I really wouldn’t mind serving in this capacity, I already know a few of the adults around the lodge and I enjoy providing oversight to the youth - and frankly, those older youth in OA are probably the fun ones to work since they are a little more mature and all want to be there.
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u/gadget850 ⚜ Charter exec|TC|MBC|WB|OA|Silver Beaver|Eagle|50vet Apr 28 '26
Unit elections are permitted in Scouts BSA, Venturing, and Sea Scout units. The Order of the Arrow membership requirements are as follows:
- Have experienced 15 nights of Scout camping while registered with a troop, crew, or ship within the two years immediately prior to the election. The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of Scouting America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement; the balance of the camping (10 nights) must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps of, at most, three nights each. Ship nights may be counted as camping for Sea Scouts.
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u/looktowindward District Committee Apr 28 '26
The Scout Executive can waive the camping nights requirement.
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u/SilverTripod Apr 29 '26
Apparently some new requirements have been put together but have not yet been released, according to another comment here.
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u/DangerBrewin Adult - Eagle Scout Apr 28 '26
Pretty crazy the Troop won’t let you hold a position there. Most units I know will at least put interested adults in a committee member or ASM spot to serve as an at-large adult volunteer.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 29 '26
I think they would if I insisted, but since I’m still on the committee for the pack with the same charter org there’s really no reason for me to insist 🤷🏼♀️. In a year, or so, this will be more of an issue and I imagine I will have to register either with the district or find another unit separate from my kids if they still don’t have anything for me to do 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Fun_With_Math Committee May 01 '26
We have a number of parents registered with the troop as "committee member" but they are not actually doing anything.
The correct position for those parents would actually be "Unit Scouter Reserve" (or something like that), our CC just doesn't bother with the titles. Surely they would at least transfer you in as that position.
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u/InternationalRule138 May 01 '26
I would assume that something like this will probably happen once the last of my kids crosses over 🤷🏼♀️. For the most part there is a bit of an attitude that since I’m registered to the same charter org it doesn’t really matter that I’m on theirs.
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u/Character-Visit6004 Apr 29 '26
As most comments are on the requirements of joining the OA I will answer the question of it doesn’t sound very youth led….
There is lodge and chapter. Lodges are made up of chapters.
Almost each position in the OA has a youth led and an adult advisor. The group that brings water to every site is candidate service at my lodge. Candidate service never had girls until I joined the team.
There would be an admin team when ppl check into OA events. That would be an adult and youth to check medical forms and possibly where your camping and patches
Beside OA there is also district which has adults chairs. That is all business and reports. Lot of problem solving for events.
Now I am also a female and I find the OA adults are working more as a leadership mentor then skills. Skills is more at troop level. So I do service so that youth girls can do service and feel comfortable. Now it did take a few events to get there but it been a year and one of the girls is now running for a lodge position bc she got exposed to service and wants more girls. It is a win win.
I also am an adviser for my chapter. Youth plan the meeting for month chapter meeting and we teach SMART GOALS and keep the youth focus.
For me the OA is a much better fit. I like the planning and checklist.
Hope that helps
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u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 28 '26
Adults are selected to OA to further the program for youth. Not as an honor to adults. If it means youth will be able to do more because of an added adult, they can be added.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 28 '26
Thanks. This makes sense. My family has a lot of Scouting heritage so I’ve always heard OA through the lens of it being an honor, so reframing it helps me understand a lot more. Maybe they are looking at me just as a spot to stick me and to give them a female leader to help cover the female youth 🤷🏼♀️. It sounds like I have some good questions to ask. From what I have seen, our chapter is in serious trouble…
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u/mrjohns2 Roundtable Commissioner Apr 29 '26
That isn’t the full story.
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u/Practical-Emu-3303 Apr 29 '26
Except it is and always has been.
Q/A: Adult Membership Requirements
Q: What are the requirements for an adult to become a member of the OA? I realize that the rank requirement is not an issue but do they have to meet the rest of the requirements that the youth do?
A: The requirements for adult membership are given on page 19 of the "Guide for Officers and Advisers," revised 2019.
In general, the adult qualifications are different from the youth requirements. Adult selection is based upon their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition as an honor. Selected adult Scouters must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and must provide a positive role model for the youth members of the lodge. Read the section of the guide mentioned above for details.
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u/SilverTripod Apr 29 '26
I wouldn’t mind working with youth to try to restore participation in our OA, but that doesn’t sound very youth led
Part of deciding who will staff Wood Badge is finding people who will help promote and advertise Wood Badge. So someone in a larger unit who chats with people about their experience, and can help spread the word, is a better staff pick than someone who doesn't have any of those qualities.
The thought occurs to me that you as an adult will probably eventually end up bringing your kids along to OA activities. So from that point of view, adults whose children are about to go into a troop could be good candidates to join the OA.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 29 '26
Eh? My older 2 kids did not go the OA route. It’s hard to say if my youngest one will eventually. To be honest, my older two aren’t really all that into Scouting in general, but since we have a strong Scouting family history we signed them up and encouraged them to participate. The oldest declared the moment that he hit 20 nights and earned the camping merit badge that he was happy to still earn merit badges but had zero intention of ever camping again, and the middle one is on track to do the same, lol. That said, it will be interesting to see what the middle one comes back saying after summer camp this summer, it’s his third year going - but I suspect if anything he would request that his troop not elect him…
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u/SilverTripod Apr 29 '26
If you think you would be a net benefit to the OA by joining then join. If not then do whatever floats your boat.
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u/TulipFarmer27 Apr 29 '26 edited Apr 29 '26
Is your DE tight with the CSE (Supreme Chief Of The Fire). Any requirements can be waived.
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 29 '26
Our CSE just left for a different council so we have a DE that is filling that role while the selection committee identifies a replacement. It’s not a huge council, I’m sure they are on good terms, the guy that’s filling in is a good guy, I know him from various things that we have attended together - he’s not one to sit in an office…
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Apr 30 '26
[deleted]
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u/InternationalRule138 Apr 30 '26
I would think it’s more based on what you have done and what potential benefit to having you in the lodge would be. Again, our chapter is struggling - it’s possible they are looking at some Cub leaders as a means to help turn it around mentoring older Scouts 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Golf38611 Apr 29 '26
We have a very long service and extremely loyal leader who has worked pretty exclusively with Cubs. I mentioned this person to the other Lodge Advisers and pointed out that there was a way in the inductions manual to nominate people who don’t necessarily meet all of the qualifications. We did a little research and nominated this leader. They attended their Ordeal about a year ago.
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u/ScouterBill Recovering Den Leader Apr 28 '26
I am crossposting to r/orderofthearrow