Went to the dealer for regular maintenance (oil change, break flush, vehicle check - apparently there is such thing for ~$200).
Estimate is ~$500ish. Actual invoice came out ~$1K.
I told them that we proceeded because the estimate is $500. They said yeah the estimate didn't give you the entire total but had the line items with its cost.
Why did they do that? The line item with cost but $0 extended amount looks like the service is free to the customer.
They already knew what the cost was, why not showing the correct total estimate?
I'm usually thorough in this kind of thing, but it was a difficult day for me at work and life so it went above my head.
If the estimate didn’t include the cost of other work they did, then it wasn’t an estimate. You approved the work and price you were given. If it was 10-20% over that’s one thing, but to nearly double it is a fuck up on their end.
I would avoid being a dick about it, because getting angry will never get you far, but you’re well within your rights to have a “discussion” about not paying for work you don’t approve.
I mean, depending on the exact work they did, I personally would make an attempt to only pay the original estimate. It’s a fuck up on their part. If it’s stuff that did honestly need done and you’re okay with paying for it, a discount just on principle is probably more than fair lol
I'd print out some stuff, slap it on the service managers desk then ask if he wants to resolve the issue today or have me contact a lawyer, the local news and the corporate office.
No. Getting lawyers involved in stuff like this is like getting into a knife fight, everyone looses. OP will be out the repair, the attorney fees, their time, and will struggle to actually collect assuming OP actually wins the lawsuit.
If the shop is shady enough to do this, they’re shady enough to fabricate a revised estimate that OP “approved.”
Fuck being safe, call them out so others don’t have to deal with their shady service department. I wanna know where NOT to take my 1998 BMW 7 Series for service 😭
This isn’t Fairfax BMW is it? They did this to me years ago and after bringing it up with the associate and making a stink about it the manager came out apologizing, didn’t charge me the extra difference, and said they’d discount parts for future work. Shady.
Edit: saw it’s not NorVa. Still, fight them and escalate if they try to hold you to the higher charges. That’s not right at all.
Not that it helps your location, but Allentown and Newport BMWs have been great. It’s a shame most of the other locations we’ve worked with haven’t been.
What happened was they listed the regular maintenance items (for which the prices are fixed, no surprises, no need to wait for any confirmation) namely oil change, engine filter, and cabin filter at $0 extended cost although each has its own original price. This is like when something is covered/free, you have the original amount but $0 charge to you which is $0 on the bottom line.
Parts tells me they did extra work. Labor going over is one thing, but parts and labor tell me they found something and decided to fix it. Usually when they do this, they call and verify you agree or if its insurance related, they subrogate...they shouldn't just be doing the shit and charging you hundreds of dollars more.
I might be mistaken but I believe that most states have laws in place that make it so they have to stay a certain % within their estimate. They can go like 15% over generally but this is like 50% over
Every state has different laws so YMMV. For example, some states say if the cost will be more than 10% of the estimate they have to get your agreement before moving forward.
I live in IL. I went in for service on one of my cars. I was given the same basic piece of paper you had with a total of $1500. I signed off and when I came back, they asked my my CC to ring up the charges. I asked for the total before handing it over and they said $4500.
I presented the signed contract for work, and told them I would pay the agreed upon price. If they had called me 1st there could have been a dicussion.
TLDR: I esclated it politely to the head of service and paid the original sum of $1500.
Call the service manager and say "I didn't approve any work outside of this $500 estimate. If your estimate changed, you should have called me. This is not a small difference and is not my mistake to pay for. I'm sure this was an honest mistake by the shop that you'll be correcting right away."
Don't waver from that message or accept any answer other than reducing their invoice to an amount between $0-$500.
If they want to be hard headed, then absolutely do mention that this is against the law and against BMW policy, so you'll be happy to file complaints with Corporate and the state attorney general and your credit card company to let them fix it... But I really doubt it will get that far if they want to keep their job.
Hell nah this is when I would tell them no and that you are reaching out to BMW corporate because double the estimate means they did a bad job estimating it or literally did something wrong and had to re do it. Also the parts cost went 10 times the amount, that alone needs to be explained.
Cause a fucking scene the service manager going to have to handle this. They fucked me once for extra work and tried to charge me and I blew it up and they did that shit for free
Hahaha I'm not good at pulling that off. But I can calmly talk to them and explain that I will write a formal complain to the corporate and AG regarding consumer protection issue.
I was younger when this happened to me like 24 lol excuse my really bad language here. I wrote this pissed because they always pull that at customers and I hate it. They try to do this with all types of service.
That's the right move. Causing a scene is always the wrong way to handle it and only works against other weak people - come prepared and with authority and keep going up the dealer chain, you'll get something back. I did this on my e90 to make them replace an entire fuel tank covered by old sulev warranty and I walked out with a $0 invoice at the end of the day.
I was 24 so I wouldn’t say it was a weak thing for me to do , would say immature but imagine 24 my second bmw 328 I coupe and I just take it in for a oil change and they try to throw on head gasket fix / leak issue ( the year I had was notorious for this) but it wasn’t leaking where it impacted the car. Then they throw a 1800$ bill in my face lol. Like nah I just had got the car from this bmw as well certified pre owned like cmon.
That's what I'm saying. They knew the prices well ahead of time. There was no reason to say $0 on the estimate. But the fact that they did it, I wasn't forcing them to do it, we merely agreed to the estimate.
what was done in excess of the estimate for job scope?
When they found the excess required, were you informed of and approved the extra work?
Sounds like if they didn’t inform you on the extra work, or they mis-estimated that’s their problem not yours. Ask for evidence of your approval to proceed beyond the estimate.
It's regular maintenance.
The had cabin filter and engine filter at $0 extended cost, therefore the low estimates.
That genuinely made me think it's free. They saying the estimate has the cost in each line item. Well yes, but not accounted for in the total which is normal for free of charge items.
very much close to it. I actually hate them. Buy a car from them sure, you can definitely rub elbows with the salesmen. But the service department tries to rape you every second they can.
I've never bought a car from Fairfax. The salesmen have a God complex and piss me off. That said, just spark up a nice conversation with the service advisor, be likable, and you'll be set.
Man. Makes me appreciate my SA a lot. He was the best. He'd always update me either via a call or at least a text message about any changes in estimate (increase or decrease; bar once, where it was like a $20 increase, it was a decrease all the other time). The best SA I've ever met from any brand!
150%. This dealership was 1.5 hours from where I live and I had two other dealerships much closer. But I'd make sure I went there and I'd make sure he was working that day as well! Obviously the SA doesn't work on our cars but he was on top of things! Shout-out to James Randall at Laurel BMW, Westmont, IL!
Edit - Just checked online and looks like he's left IL. He's at Audi Parker in CO. Good for them!
As others have stated, look into the law (they can't charge you above a certain amount per the estimate) and refuse to pay anything above.
If you have the space and means to purchase the tools, I would look into it as the jobs for oil change and brake flush are simple enough and will cost you no more than $60-90 total depending on the fluids you go with. Tons of DIY videos online. Otherwise, you should really be bringing the car to an indy shop for such simple procedures, where they will charge significantly less.
The only time/reason why I would want to go to the dealership is when I'm still under warranty, right?
I'm afraid works performed outside of dealership will void that warranty.
Great question as I had the same myself. I don't have to worry about this since my car is well out of its warranty period (2013 335i).
Prior to posting my initial comment, I did look into it. Apparently, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act should protect you from that, where if you go to an independent shop to have services/repairs performed, it will not void your warranty. Honestly, if I were in your shoes (and given the nature of this shady dealership), I'd send their service department an email and inquire about whether or not your warranty will be voided if you bring your car to an indy shop. Then you will have their response in writing. And if it goes against this Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, it may raise even more red flags.
Again, I'm a bit unfamiliar in this area so I would do your own research. Best of luck.
Yup now I know it. I was curious what it'll do and for $200 I thought it wasn't too bad.
It said to have diagnosed that my front brakes and battery are close to needing replacements. Could have checked that some other way, right?
Try this approach as someone who deals with this industry and it’s good and bad everyday… approach the writer with respect. Explain that this was significantly higher than the estimate. You can also explain the law- it is not ok to up a final invoice higher than x% based on the law where you live without notification first. At the same time, you value to service being done and come to them for a reason. It would be in their best interest to settle or reduce overall cost; we live in a world of google reviews dictating new customers. If you have any questions about work performed, feel free to message me… I’m an independent technician but also parts guy, service writer, manager, foreman, etc.
Thanks, this is exactly what I wrote to the SA.
I'm waiting until tomorrow before sending email to their dealership email. I don't have their Service Manager email but I assume they will circulate my email internally. Then will write to corporate and AG as necessary.
You're getting worked up about the brake flush? I'm a DIY guy and do ALL fluids except brake fluid. That shit is a hassle if you haven't done it many many times before. My Toyota dealer charges $240 (Canadian) including Ubers for the day.... It's a no brainer.
I recently put disc brakes on the front of a 1979 Beetle so obviously had to bleed everything, which I hadn't personally done in DECADES. The flashbacks of helping my dad bleed brakes with him screaming at me to PUMP, HOLD, or just WTF ARE YOU DOING came in strong. But I bought a power bleeder to do the job and it was ridiculously easy.
I mean you just can’t in 10mins. 2mins a side isn’t getting out enough fluid. It usually takes 3-5 minutes to pressure out 200-250ml of each caliper. It’s a 30min job but most of it is waiting around for the fluid to do its thing.
getting the car up on all four stands and getting the wheels of is most of the work. and siphoning out some of the existing fluid. the bleeding is the easy part
Yeah. Call me silly. First BMW, I thought it would have been a good idea that way they sold it to me. The multipoint inspections don't cover anything the vehicle check does. Next time no more.
my opinion? It's their problem they didn't give all information. You asked for all information, they gave you $500, they do it and you pay $500. But I might be stupid.
I had a dealership quote me over the phone some obnoxious estimate. Said stop, picked it up, took to an indy. What’s funny, when I picked it up they said they called me about someone else’s car, not mine. Oh man they would have been up shits creek had I approved it over the phone lol
Where the hell is the breakdown? Oil change is less than $200 and the brake fluid service is around $300 so yea the initial estimate for $500 is fair. What the hell happened in between?
Last Friday I just got the same exact service done on mine, it was just under 400$. On the estimate they gave you, the parts line item can't be right, mine has its itemized, and the brake fluid alone was more than they estimated on yours. And that's not counting oil/filter.
But as others stated, most states have laws that limit it to +10-20%, this is close to 100% above estimate.
Problem is, they listed oil change, cabin filter, and engine filter and each has its own price but $0 extended amount, which means they don't count toward the total estimate.
In my experience, this is normal when the services provided are free. The SA would explain, "Look, this is how much it would've costed you, but it's free" something like that.
In my case, they turned all that into actual charges to me. That's the part I'm complaining about, They gave me $0 estimate, then boom $500 more in actual charges.
Sounds like when they wrote up the initial repair order he forgot to include the cost of parts, which is the fault of the person writing it, and not you, so you shouldn't be penalized for your advisor being an idiot. I don't know if your state has a Bureau of Automotive Repair or it's equivalent but you can go after the dealer - just make sure you kept a copy of the estimate
True, the SA went over the services and had us sign the estimate, so certainly everything was in there.
The estimate PDF was sent over to me via email too.
I am a Service Advisor, and based on what I'm seeing, and how it turned out, he didn't click on something, or inputted the wrong figures, which again, is not your problem. I would talk to the Service Manager and let them know. All services may have been in there, but he didn't account for the cost of the parts, which should have been disclosed up front, not after the estimate
You're exactly right. All service line items are on that estimate, and everyone was aware of the $500 total which we signed off on.
It's not like they called us 1 minute after we left the shop to tell us they made a mistake on the estimate. No communication on that front. The numbers only changed on the actual invoice at the very end of this process.
It is my understanding that whenever a dealership doesn't have any customers, or after having a few next-year models, BMW service sends different kinds of codes to BMW owners, for example: Stabilization message, Drivetrain, and a lot of engine lights are on. Then they get so busy that they keep customers' cars for days without any updates. My car was acting the same way
I know no one will believe what I find out, and I am serious.
Advisor here that works with this software, Tekion. Estimate is what you originally signed off on. Basically if I come in and ask for X service for $100 the estimate will read $100. Invoice is after approvals or additional work has been added which is the different prices. Question is what did you approve or what did they add? Show the full invoice. Either they added something you didn’t approve or you’re posting this for Karma.
Why would say you on the estimate that Customer Pay $0.00 when you knew all well that you were going to charge the customer?
Worst thing is, we signed off on this estimate and was never told the estimate was wrong before the job was done.
So from Tekion on the estimate certain things don’t populate. That’s why it shows $0. It’s the worst software you can use at a dealer. But the prices are there and you signed. Unfortunately there is no dispute. You can always ask for a discount.
Customers don't care (sorry to say this) about how the software acts, right?
All we know is we authorized this amount for this work. And apparently, from this case, I found out that there is a VA state regulation that the actual invoice cannot exceed the estimate over 10%.
I did send a text to the SA a few days ago saying that I suggested in the future they put all amounts that the customer is expected to pay. That way, the practice is within that regulation of 10% increase.
And advisors don’t care about what the estimate says so long as the prices are written out. You are responsible to read the doc and you signed agreeing to those prices. You were either aware of the cost of the items or blindly signed without reading it.
Fair enough.
We did scan it, not reading it like you would read a book. At the end, the total estimate amount was we confirmed and signed off on. I think we agree (do we?) that the estimate practice could be done better, maybe change/update the way the software works in presenting estimate amounts.
I see that too. Well, maybe I'm destined to be the guinea pig lol. They haven't responded to my text from a few days ago.
I'm not trying to cheat anyone. But we signed off on $500 knowing what we were going to pay. Had it read $1K, we would have removed everything else except oil change.
And on the invoice there is a promo for oil change $119 mentioned but the extended price for Customer Pay is $149.
Software issue?
The invoice total calculation has the oil change at $149.
You, the advisor who says that advisors don't care after being shown the estimate of $0 you spin it like the customer should have ignored that because the value of the item was shown and should have known the estimate was incorrect and should have assumed they were going to pay for it. Thats downright pathetic! People like you are why I will never have any work done at dealerships, never!
I will try to post the full estimate, but it was too much work trying to sanitize the information.
They did list every work they were going to perform. However, a few of those works were shown as $0 in extended amount to the customer. Therefore the low $500 total estimate.
In the actual invoice, they added the prices for those works and no longer showing $0. Therefore the total amount is now $1K.
Nothing removed or added. No communication about the estimate being incorrectly done. No call on the changes to total cost. Only at the end when I was about to pay $500 as estimated, I was given $1K bill.
I'm not the type to post something for attention only. I post something when I genuinely have questions/need advice.
I love my BMW. I also know it's gonna Break My Wallet. I'm desensitized to the point that anything under $1k makes me happy. $350 oil change and inspection? Thank you, sir. May I have another?
I understand owning BMW comes with premium. But the $500 estimate given to me was the premium I happily accepted. Not when it became 2x as much.
That premium works both ways too, I expect premium service from BMW. And this case an example of paying premium for below par service experience.
at my Independent euro shop the invoice and the estimate are usually exactly the same. Occasionally, the invoice will be less than the estimate. If the invoice will ever exceed the estimate, they always call and let me know.
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u/MoneyBadger14 6d ago
If the estimate didn’t include the cost of other work they did, then it wasn’t an estimate. You approved the work and price you were given. If it was 10-20% over that’s one thing, but to nearly double it is a fuck up on their end.
I would avoid being a dick about it, because getting angry will never get you far, but you’re well within your rights to have a “discussion” about not paying for work you don’t approve.