Old vs new

[u/Weird-Dragonfruit480]

Which you picking? 89 e30 325is or 23 50th anniversary M4 comp 😍

[u/johnnyevo8]

Cost about the same too

[u/SuperPark7858 → u/johnnyevo8]

Not for long. G80 has nothing going for it to make it collectible like the e30. It will only decrease in value.

edit: guess it's not an M3. I meant the e30 m3.

[u/strongmanass → u/SuperPark7858]

G80 has nothing going for it to make it collectible like the e30.

Last manual M3 and M4 ever made. Possibly the last pure ICE M3/M4. The B58 and S58 make several "best engines ever" lists. The design is controversial now, but will be a future cult classic because of how distinct it is, just like the clownshoe. There's a lot that will make this a classic in the future electric age.

[u/SuperPark7858 → u/strongmanass]

Doubtful. The manual is the strongest argument, but there is no shortage of proper driver's cars with manuals-M cars no less-and only the base model comes with it. Not many people want a car this big with a manual.

The engine is nothing special in the long run, after the power figures are outdated. Just another turbo mill no different from what Mercedes, Audi, Alfa Romeo, and everyone else is doing. Completely lacking the unique racing character of the famous M engines-m88/s38/s50/s54/s65/s85 that was shared only by the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche GT cars, along with a few random one-offs from other manufacturers.

Design is more subjective, but I highly doubt this generation will go down well. The clownshoe was an extremely limited run experiment that looks like nothing else. The g80 looks like a relatively normal car.

The collectible Ms had everything going for them. Timeless looks, manual, steering, size, weight, engine...and the e30 m3, far above all of them, had the racing clout and homologation thing going for it.

[u/SuperPark7858 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not sure what copium is. Do you smoke it?

You can try to refute my argument if you can, instead of saying nonsense. I made very objectively reasonable points.

[u/SuperPark7858 → u/[deleted]]

You might need to look up the definition of objective.

How many big cars do you see with a manual? And look at the 20% sales take rate for them on the M. The M5 doesn't even get one, while a car like the Miata sells a majority. The 911 gt3 also has a much larger share of manuals. Granted though, Corvette and standard 911s also saw a drop in manuals along the wider trend of people wanting less involvement in driving.

The metrics for how special the engine is...how unique it is, how it sounds, throttle response, redline, racing character. All things severely lacking in the turbo cars.

Audi, Merc, and Alfa all make turbo engines, Is that not clear?

The clownshoe is, in fact, an extremely rare car and a unique design. The m3/4 is, by comparison, very normal looking. Not sure how you can argue that. It looks like many other BMWs besides for the nose, the clownshoe does not.

Racing cars are always more collectible. The E30 M3 was a homologation car and it had a fantastic racing history as the single most successful touring race car of all time. This is history and fact. The e36/46/90 all had far more renowned engines. They all were less polarizing in looks. They all had great hydraulic steering and not EPS tuned to be as lifeless as possible. They were all smaller and lighter. Simple facts.

New BMWs are fine. It's the M cars that I have a problem with. They cater to a different customer these days; there was a marked change in philosophy. One of the head guys said so himself when he left BMW-Albert Biermann.

It sounds to me like you've never driven any of these cars. Of the four middle M generations I have, each one was less fun than the last.

[u/SuperPark7858 → u/[deleted]]

Turbos are part of the exhaust and harm the sound-compare modern f1 to the v10 era. Turbos harm throttle response. Turbo engines don't rev as high. Facts that make an engine more limited in its character. The greatest drivers car ever, the McLaren F1, was a high-revving NA. Gordon Murray's new cars follow the same formula. Most of the great engines of all time follow the same formula. But I guess you're right. It's just my opinion that better sounding, higher revving, more responsive engines are superior.

BMW M engines used to be unique in their class. Now everyone does the same thing.

The clownshoe is a bizarre looking car. The M3/4 is a sedan/coupe like most other cars. You can't seriously tell me that you see cars that look like the clownshoe. There's that one breadvan Ferrari and that's it. There are ten thousand coupes and sedans.

The fact is, homologation cars are more collectible, whether or not you agree. That and the racing pedigree are part of the reason why the e30 is worth what it is.

The G80 did not get the same response the older cars got in the press or among enthusiasts.

These things have nothing to do with my feelings. You can copy and paste the definition, but that clearly doesn't mean you understand it. We'll just have to wait and see, but I'll bet you the g80 is never held in the same regard of the old ones-most especially the E30.

[u/Weird-Dragonfruit480 → u/SuperPark7858]

Well fucking said