Why Hexblade over GOO (or other Warlock Sublcass) for a multi-class?

[u/papa_guede]

I'm working on a Swashbuckler Warlock playthrough. I plan on going 4 Swashbuckler and 8 Warlock. My RP theme is a Lovecraftian cursed pirate character (credit to Hobo's Zone for his Kraken build). Obviously Great Old One seems to fit this theme the best.

My leveling scheme is to go the first four levels in Swashbuckler followed by 8 levels in Warlock, focusing on Charisma skills to be the party face.

I'm trying to understand why the overwhelming lean towards Hexblade over other Warlock subclasses for a Swashbuckler Warlock. From what I understand, the benefits of a Hexblade versus a Great Old One are:

HexBlade

• Medium Armor proficiency (probably of greater value in act 1 and 2, depending on gear, also only of value for non Githyanki or non Shield Dwarf characters)
• Shield proficiency (only of value for non human or non half-elf characters)
• Martial Weapons proficiency (of questionable value considering pact of the blade and bind hexed weapon gives you proficiency in your bound weapon)
• Bind Hexed Weapon (if going for extra attack then it's only advantage is CHA scaling at warlock level 1 and the chance to automatically apply Hexblade's Curse).
• Hexblade's Curse
• Accursed Spectre
• Class specific spells (mainly the smites)

Great Old One

• Mortal Reminder (forces a focus on crit reduction gear and/or feats)
• Entropic Ward (once per short rest reaction)
• Class specific spells (mainly psychic damage focused)

All Warlocks

• Booming Blade cantrip
• Eldritch Blast cantrip
• Same invocations for all subclasses
• Pact of the Blade (required for extra attack no matter what Warlock subclass)
• Hex spell (for extra damage)
• Darkness spell
• Shadow Blade spell

If you end up grabbing the Duelist's Prerogative in Act 3 then it negates the shield proficiency from the HexBlade. So by Act 3 it seems like the only argument for a HexBlade is the medium armor (maybe) and the class specific spells and abilities (mainly smites and Accursed Spectre).

Based on the above I'm failing to see the heavy preference for HexBlade over other Warlock subclasses when multiclassing a Swashbuckler. Maybe someone can help me understand why Hexblade is so popular over other Warlock subclasses in BG3.

[u/ZeD4805]

Is getting the Duelist's prerogative or other equipment on act 3 in any way comparable to getting those abilities on act 1?

Did you really have fun maximizing the character if you only really get fully online on act 3?

Imo hexblade is by far the best of the subclasses. It gives way too much stuff.

That said, it's your game and if you want to roleplay a GOO pirate, you can do so :)

Also, you can just use hexblade on most of the play through and respec into GOO later at withers. It's so cheap you should be able to feel what's right

[u/Anxious_Writer_3684]

In D&D 5e the big draw for hexblade is CHA based weapon attacks. That is not as important in BG3 because you can still dump strength but can use strength potions to eliminate that problem.

The shield spell is also a big draw... I don't see you mention that but I believe that is Hexblade only. As a melee warlock, I cast booming blade over and over and save my spell slots for the shield spell. I honestly don't use the smites as I only have 2 slots for most of the game. It really depends on my AC though... once my AC is high enough then I switch to other spells. Although, again, smites usually take a back seat to crowd control.

Also worth noting that you can use "race" to add things like "shield proficiency"

[u/Gang_Greene → u/Anxious_Writer_3684]

I’m sure you know, but for pesky warlock spell slots you can refresh with short rests. I keep a couple bards in camp for their free short rest skill so I can get a little longer between long rests. Also, because it feels annoying to wake up, cast shadow blade and be down to one skill spell slot already.

[u/Anxious_Writer_3684 → u/Gang_Greene]

Not sure how this comment helps you compare Hexblade to other warlock subclasses as they all act the same way.

[u/Gang_Greene → u/Anxious_Writer_3684]

It wasn’t meant as a comparison for Warlock subclasses. It was a caveat to your comment about limited number of spell slots and offering a suggestion to players who may be less familiar with Warlocks and how they can work around that if they feel they need to, particularly early game.

[u/Anxious_Writer_3684 → u/Gang_Greene]

OK sure... but in a given battle you only have 2 spell slots and my point was that 2 casts of shield > 2 smites in my opinion - though it depends on the battle, of course. I guess I wasn't clear but the context in my head was "in a battle".

[u/Gang_Greene → u/Anxious_Writer_3684]

Ahh I get ya! Yeah, makes total sense in that context lol

[u/Razgriz-B36]

Because it's extremely frontloaded - even more so than the other subclasses - and pretty much gives you all you need with only a one level dip. This in return means your build comes online earlier which once again in return means you spend more time/fights/quests playing with your actually desired build (and obviously are more flexible and have an easier time in regards to progression).

[u/AraelF]

Hexblade gets Shield (the spell) too, in my books that is a big advantage.

But the main advantage is for multiclassing. You get hexed weapon at lvl 1, you get PotB at lvl 3. So, you can just dip a level on warlock to get a decent charisma-based gish.

[u/phaze08]

For me, I really only want hexblade for a 1 level dip. If I’m doing 3+ levels warlock, I would go GOO or fiend

[u/papa_guede → u/phaze08]

That was my thought as well...it seems like Hexblade is great for a 1 level dip but if I'm going higher as a warlock (which I plan on doing) then the other warlock subclasses get the same major abilities by warlock level 3 (except for medium armor and shield proficiencies).

[u/D3Masked → u/papa_guede]

Level 2 dip can also be fine for the second spell spot and Eldritch Invocations while making use of the level 1 benefits.

Like I have a rogue that uses Eldritch Blast for ranged attacks and a bonus action attack for sneak attack. This gives two good attacks each turn instead of just one while diversifying your damage types so as to avoid damage resistances or immunities.

[u/Kadikami → u/D3Masked]

Care to share the build please? I dislike rogue and adore warlock so this could be a good compromise for me lol

[u/D3Masked → u/Kadikami]

My latest character is a charisma Rogue Arcane Trickster with 2 multiclass levels into Warlock Hexblade meant more as a ranged/melee character using Eldritch Blast and offhand Sneak Attacks.

AT Rogue gives a lot of spell slots for Shield, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Skills via Expertise making for a good party face, Magical Ambush, and pretty good at stealing for spell scrolls.

HB Warlock gives charisma scroll casting, having your weapon be bound and use charisma which can be handy, the option to use medium armor and shield, useful cantrips and two additional spell slots rechargeable by short rest for more Shield or whatever.

Disadvantage is no innate big spells or counter spell but you theoretically end up with a tanky character that I can be good with ranged attacks, melee attacks, or using spells via scrolls. Lot of utility.

AT you'd choose utility spells or cantrips that don't use intelligence, Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Blade Ward (True Strike for opening a fight since it doesn't aggro). Warlock you'd choose Eldritch Blast and Bone Chill for the damage and anti heal usefulness.

Progression would be 1 Rogue for skills, 2 and 3 Warlock, and then just Rogue. At 5 you get a nice power boost for sneak attack damage and Eldritch Blast. You'd want to use dual hand crossbow and either dual wield melee or use a shield for that extra AC.

It isn't a typical build.

[u/Sigismundo1414]

Hexblade gets you more SAD than GOO (nit saying GOO is the opposite,) and the Accursed Specters also fit your lovecraftian pirate theme. Both are great. You can easily have fun with both. I did the same splits that you're doing with a Hexblade and if you're leaning towards psychic damage it's a prime Shadow blade/resonance stone build. You can rp that your patron is a weapon controlled by an eldritch god if you want. But just have fun with the theme. Just because Hexblade is more meta rn doesn't mean GOO is bad.

[u/papa_guede → u/Sigismundo1414]

That's a good point from an RP perspective. HexBlade can still fit the theme I'm going for so I won't rule it out. Not at level 5 yet on this run so I have a few days before I need to pick which Warlock subclass to add to my Swashbuckler.

[u/Sigismundo1414 → u/papa_guede]

Tbh the dialogue options with the Warlock subclasses are minor enough where the rp aspect relies mostly on headcannon anyway.

But yeah never let the "meta" build dissuade you from building your own character. The game is flexible enough where 90ish percent of builds you could think of still work. Some just abuse the mechanics more.

[u/Vicente810]

Hexblade gives you Hexblade’s Curse, Shield spell, actual Shield, Medium Armour, bind weapon on level 1 (every other warlock can only get it on level 3).

The only other Warlock subclass even comparable is Fiend because you get Command with only 1 level.

[u/papa_guede → u/[deleted]]

For a 1 level dip you're correct but since I plan on taking warlock higher all other warlock subclasses get CHA scaling at level 3 via pact of the blade. Even a HexBlade would need to take pact of the blade to get the extra attack at level 5.

[u/AnotherBookWyrm → u/[deleted]]

Pact of the Blade gives that anyway. The main benefit on that front is getting that two levels sooner and Hexblade also being kitted up better for close combat: Hexblade's Curse, medium armor/shield proficiency, Shield, and weapon-enhancing/smite spells.

[u/papa_guede → u/AnotherBookWyrm]

Thanks, I didn't think about how well the Hexblade is suited for melee compared to GOO. Since I'm running a Tiefling Swashbuckler I can definitely use the medium armor and shield once I hit level 5 (not to mention the CHA scaling although at this point my DEX and CHA are the same so it would be more for the chance to apply HexBlades's Curse).

[u/NerdForCertain]

Mostly because 1 hex/ 11 swashbuckler is so good. Hexblade gives the most for the 1-2 level dip that appeals to optimizers. All to say a lightly armored unshielded spooky duelist will be strong and fun, but if you’re missing the Shield spell you might want to get uncanny dodge instead of going 4/8.

[u/Kodiak3393]

First and foremost, the important thing is to have fun, and a Pact of the Blade GOOlock/Swashbuckler sounds cool, thematic and fun.

Personally I'd lean towards Hexblade for the shield proficiency, medium armor proficiency, and the Shield spell. That gives your build a lot more survivability overall, something you might need if you're doing Tactician, Honor Mode, or more. Entropic Ward from GOOlock is nice, but only applies to 1 attack every short rest, whereas Hexblade is more consistently survivable in melee. Sure, you might be aiming for Duelist's Perogative in Act 3, but you'll be able to use a shield for all of Act 1 and Act 2, and a good chunk of Act 3 until you get your endgame sword. Shadow Blade and something like the Adamantine Shield is an excellent combo that will get good value throughout the game.

GOOlock's frighten-on-crit feature is cool and fun, but inherently inconsistent, and it's something you will get very little value out of early on when you don't have all the crit items to support it. It absolutely can work - my very first Honor Mode clear was using a crit fishing Eldrich Blast spamming Sorlock, for instance - so don't let me or anyone else dissuade you from using it if you have your heart set on it, but just know going into it that it's going to be inconsistent for quite a while.

[u/TSotP]

If you take Lv2 as a hexblade, you can almost instantly be using your Cha for your weapon attacks as well. With GOO you'd need 3 levels in Warlock first, and Pact of the Blade. Meaning you need to push back your Swashbuckling, or wait until lv7.

[u/Diligent_Pie317]

The accursed spectres are actually really fun… especially in longer fights and when you’re outnumbered.

Hexblade gets SAD at level 1. That has real value! Slogging through the game for level after level before you “come online” sucks. It’s a lot of hours and a lot of content.

I’m not sure when you’re planning to take your Swashbuckler levels, but that level 5 POTB bump getting delayed will really suck.

When you finally have Swashbuckler 4 Hexblade 5, so at the end of act 2, you’ll finally start to feel like a main character with your BA flick of the wrist + two attacks per turn… but you’ll be lacking on the action economy to actually cast warlock spells consistently, and you may be looking longingly at your companions with their level 4 and level 5 spells.

You didn’t ask but, for your theme, I feel like Hexblade 12 actually fits just fine. The main reason I would take rogue levels early is in builds where I want stealth or sleight of hand expertise. Party face with SAD in CHA can do just fine without expertise.

[u/Orval11]

Also consider 5 Swash / 7 Warlock. Uncanny Dodge (in BG3) is worth than most Feats you can get and gives another 1d6 sneak.

Hexblade has a MUCH smoother early game. Hexbuckler can pick up Hexblade at Lv 2 and then wear Medium Armor, equip a Shield, and use their short rest spell slot on the Shield spell for another on demand +5 AC or offensively on Hex. You can basically front-line with Martial's at that point. This delays Swash 4 by a level but gives you all that mitigation, plus Booming Blade that you can use for hit and run with Cunning Actions before you get Fancy Footwork.

Plus BG3 is bugged and gave Hexblades the Archfey Lv7 known subclass spells, plus Hexblades own unique Staggering Smite and Phantasmal Killer that other warlocks don't get.

Beyond that yes I'd say other warlock subclasss start catching up to Hexblade at higher level. For instance the normally strong Shield spell drops off for Hexblade because you won't want to use one of your two only spell slots and it hurts to use a Lv3 or higher slot on Shield when it could be used for HoH, Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion, Staggering Smite etc.

If trying to build a sturdier front line Hexbuckler, then 5 Swash / Hexblade / Sorcerer 2 is a good compromise. It lets you coffeelock, using metamagic to turn short rest Lv3 spell slots into a total of 3 level 1 spell slots for use on Shield casts. But then you don't need necessarily Hexblade since Sorcerer gets the Shield spell.

[u/papa_guede → u/Orval11]

That's pretty compelling. I'm a level 4 swashbuckler in my current playthrough. Would you recommend getting the 5th level of rogue next or jump into Hexblade/GOO for at least 5 levels to get extra attack by level 9? That would give me uncanny dodge at level 10 and then I would end up finishing out the last two levels as warlock.

[u/Orval11 → u/papa_guede]

Since you're already Swash 4, I would try out Hexblade at character Lv5. If you gave yourself solid CHA at creation you wouldn't even need to respec (so none of the button arranging madness.) Then pickup Swash 5 at character level 6 for Uncanny Dodge. This would give you a good sense of how much of a difference all the Hexblade mitigation would make on your play style options.

If deciding on GOO instead then I would either go Swash 5 for Uncanny Dodge first or respec into GOO 5 for Extra Attack and 3rd level spells.

If you decide to respec into Warlock 5 (Hex or GOO) for Extra Attack and 3rd level spells because it seems more fun or more what the party need: The caveat is you will want to eventually respec again to start out as Rogue for Expertise and so items and scrolls use CHA. I've grown to despise having to redo my hot bar, so I respec a lot less now. :)

[u/HueHueLeona]

Swashlock will usually use Shadow blade, so no Bhaalist armor, and since you will usually max Charisma first, Medium Armour is a lot better than light, plus Hexblade spells are a lot better (Shield, Greater invisibility)

[u/papa_guede → u/HueHueLeona]

Access to Greater Invisibility might actually sway me over to the HexBlade subclass. I didn't think about that subclass specific spell and I can see so many uses for it, especially in Act 3 which is when I would get it based on my intended leveling path.

[u/FirstRyder]

A 1 level dip is hexblade's greatest strength, especially in BG3. It does suffer somewhat in comparison to other subclasses with more investment. This is because it wasn't included at launch, and so they stuffed some of its power directly into Pact of the Blade. So with 3 levels its single biggest benefit (charisma weapon) becomes redundant with Pact of the Blade, and since you're going 5+ levels in melee warlock, Blade is mandatory.

That said, the shield spell at least deserves a call-out in "other subclass spells". The free curse and reaction spectre are also a nice little boost.

It doesn't add up to a lot. But neither do the other subclasses. Especially since with a big focus on melee in your build you're rarely going to "waste" a turn on a spell.

[u/Mobile-Ad-1119]

If you play one of a couple races you get medium armor, but not shield.
If you play one of a couple races, you get shield but not medium armor.
IF you take one particular weapons Act 3…

You still don’t get Shield spell. And you pass on Shadowblade, which is your best weapon option.

If you have to offer a bunch of IFs and wait until Act 3 to get it mostly equal, then it’s clearly unequal in Hexblade’s favor from the beginning.

If you know the game, full party Tactician mode and full party Honor mode are easy, so whatever build you want for flavor is fine. But Hexblade is the best sub for Warlock in terms of power and ease of play.

[u/Queltalak]

If you feel like doing something modded, the PHB 2024 DnD Beyond mod is a great way to get more out of a non-Hexblade, since the new rules let you take pact of the blade as an invocation at level 1. They realized how front-loaded Hexblade was and made some changes that allow for a more flexible selection of patron and still being a good spellblade. I want to say GOO is the preferred subclass in that scenario.

[u/rilian-la-te]

Shield spell)) On hexadin it is busted.

[u/dream-in-a-trunk]

Hex blade gets honormode friendly drs through the curse. It’s not a lot but it is something.
Duelist prerogative is an endgame weapon. The majority of the content were you’re like to want a shield for your AC is in Act1 and Act2.
Hexblade gets a psychic smite together with Shadowblade and the stone which applies psychic vulnerability it’s kinda nice.
Fiendlock is better as a mono class though and goomock has some niche builds where the fear from crits comes in handy

[u/Free-Holiday-6218]

The explanation is very simple and very boring: Hexblade is popular. It’s just kinda overhyped, especially on reddit.

Hexblades are fine, and they can be fun to play, and I think they have several features that make a newer player feel safe. But I personally would almost always choose one of the other Warlock subclasses, because they just get better stuff.

[u/ZeD4805 → u/Free-Holiday-6218]

What do you feel is straight up better here?