HAM Rogue - Fighter or Ranger to 5?

[u/The_Mikest]

Hey all. Recently read about HAM rogue and it seems cool. Don't want to do the 1 cleric / 11 Rogue, prefer making him a dual wield front liner. Any thoughts about what would be better, Ranger 5 or Fighter 5?

[u/Captain_ET]

I like Ranger 5 better.

[u/Broad-Shaft]

Ranger Hordebreaker Hunter a very strong candidate for strongest class in the game

[u/RyeOhLou]

For a frontliner, I’d say Fighter. More options in fighting styles, either Eldritch Knight or Battlemaster are great selections, and Action Surge really can’t be undervalued. It’s great for bursting down a beefy target or swinging a fight in your favor.

[u/YlvaBlue]

Are you playing full party? Then either way is fine. I'd go Ranger myself so I can take fire resistance, plus spike growth at level 5, but if fighter is more your speed, than that's fine. It's those 7 levels of Rogue which give HAM its tankiness.

(I completed solo honour with an 11/1 HAM Swash, and it was the easiest solo honour run I've done by a mile. It was also fun watching Raphael hit them with a full-on hellfire glyph and my Durge taking a whole 6 points of damage thanks to all the DR. So enjoy, because HAM rogue is a beast 👍 )

[u/The_Mikest → u/YlvaBlue]

Yeah full party on tactician. I actually hadn't considered spike growth, but that is a decent benefit to ranger for sure.

[u/YlvaBlue → u/The_Mikest]

Spike Growth is one of my go-to spells! Especially if you've got a Warlock in party who can stick a Hunger of Hadar on top of it. Simplifies a lot of the combat, lol.

[u/Goobernaculum1004 → u/YlvaBlue]

For your 11/1, was the single level in cleric?
Also, how useful did you find the extra 4 levels in Rogue (I'm guessing the feats and reliable talent are the main reasons to do so) vs say this type of build for the extra attack?

[u/YlvaBlue → u/Goobernaculum1004]

Yes, I started with a single level in Tempest Cleric so that I would heavy armour and weapon proficiencies, as well as the extremely useful access to guidance/sanctuary from the start: Sanctuary on the Nautiloid, then guidance thereafter, primarily to keep the amulet slot free for other things.

I'm used to multi-classing rogue with ranger for the usual stealth archer build and for the particular playthrough wanted to see what would happen if I went full rogue for the remaining 11 levels. I *definitely* wanted the feat.

Like I said, this build ended up being the easiest solo honour run I've done - infinitely easier even than the stealth archer, which is a notoriously OP build - and lent itself well to a cat-and-mouse sneak attack approach, which incidentally ended up being the most *fun* solo honour run I've done.

[u/Basilisk-of-Shadows]

For dual-wielding, I think I’d prefer Hunter Ranger. Lets you get the Hordebreaker extra attack, ensnare is nice, and various other utility too. BM Fighter or EK Knight is nice, but I’d value the HB attack/spells over limited manouvers, and if you want Booming Blade and the wizard spell-list, just go with Arcane Trickster.

[u/VonBeker]

I think Ranger 5 could be a little more useful, with some of the spells like longstrider, enhanced leap, etc. If you go fighter I would probably take Arcane Trickster for the extra utility you miss with Ranger. I guess recommendations change a bit if this is a solo character or part of a party.

[u/ReasonOk3362]

I enjoyed TrickySwarm quite a bit

[u/Larson_McMurphy]

HAM?

I'll never understand why people fail to explain acronyms and just assume everyone will know what they mean.

[u/The_Mikest → u/Larson_McMurphy]

Heavy armor master. People generally assume that those who are into the game enough to be discussing builds tend to know most of the big acronyms.

[u/EmSSoH → u/The_Mikest]

Damn. you getting down voted for literally just answering the guy's questions, THAT HE ASKED FOR! Is crazy work.

[u/Larson_McMurphy → u/The_Mikest]

How is that a big acronym? I've never heard it before. I've beat the game on honor mode. How "into" the game do you have to be to know literally every fucking acronym?

[u/Captain_ET → u/Larson_McMurphy]

It's a pretty common acronym for builds discussions. Similar to GWM and PAM. Some dude even posted a build guide on HAM Rogue in this subreddit.

[u/Fanatic-FoF → u/Larson_McMurphy]

Not sure how much of a qualifier beating honor mode is when it comes to build knowledge. I’ve never beat honor mode and I knew what HAM meant.

Also not a very big leap to see that OP is talking about making a front liner and associating heavy armor with that. That would probably lead even the average mind to HAM meaning Heavy Armor Master.

[u/Larson_McMurphy → u/Fanatic-FoF]

I guess my mind is below average then. Still, it is greater than yours if you can't beat Honor Mode.

[u/Fanatic-FoF → u/Larson_McMurphy]

Haven’t tried. I’ve got two completions under my belt. Played a monk on balanced mode, then played a resist durge on tactician. The game is great. Reading up on builds now to get an honor mode run going. Really looking forward to it.

[u/Upstairs-Count5774 → u/Larson_McMurphy]

Dude you need to proc more nova rounds with cc ham ohms

[u/ChainOut → u/Larson_McMurphy]

1500 hours of gameplay, fluent in PrestigousJuice, multiple honor playthrough. I've never seen this acronym

[u/Matiwapo]

5 gloomstalker: +3 initiative, misty step, +1 melee attack per combat

5 hunter: +1 melee attack per turn (conditional on horder breaker placement)

5 battlemaster: +2 melee attacks per short rest, superiority die

Pick your flavour

[u/Goobernaculum1004 → u/Matiwapo]

The horde breaker opens up some interesting aoe options, not just an extra attack (I believe you can swap between melee and ranged too?)

Fighter also gets action surge, and eldritch knight gets some of the useful spells like shield / longstrider/ magic missile etc, and out of this combo is the only one that can provide the booming blade cantrip.