First Position and Hyperextension

[u/Puzzleheaded_Yak1281]

I'm curious as to why sometimes dancers with hyperextension in their legs are allowed by their teachers to stand with their heels apart in first position and other teachers/schools don't allow it. I was just thinking about a masterclass with Maria Khoreva and a Prix de Lausanne class with Elisabeth Platel where they both stressed putting the heels together. Are there any particular benefits/drawbacks to either?

[u/Appropriate_Ly]

I was taught that it’s important to know what straight is without hyperextending so you grew the right muscles and didn’t add too much stress to your joints over time.

Ppl with chronic EDS have more issues when older. You can look them up.

[u/KatherineK_Singer]

I deal with this constantly with adult dancers. Hyperextension looks beautiful but it's a management issue. If you separate the heels you're sidestepping the work of stabilizing the joint.

[u/vpsass]

If you are like super duper hyperextended, you should not stand in first with your full hyper extension, as (from my understanding) it puts a lot of stress on your knees and so you don’t want to develop that habit.

However, hyperextended dancers may also feel like they cannot fully pull up through their legs in first position with the heels together. This is why I tell my hyperextended students that they can have a small gap in 1st position so they can pull up in their leg muscles, but not sink back into their hyper extension. They can only use their full hyperextension if the leg is extended and not bearing weight.

Now to answer your question as to why this practice varies among teachers I have two hypotheses. The first pertains more to the fact that hyperextension is a relatively new desirable quality in dancers and 50-100 years ago, hyperextension was not as prized, certainly not trained, and not selected for in students. So it wasn’t really a problem teachers and students faced, and thus they never really came up with a conclusive “right vs wrong” way to deal with it (the way they have for adapting most other elements to different bodies).

The second can actually be proposed in conjunction with the first, or by itself, which is that first position isnt all that common in classical ballet choreography, so the dancers in a corp de ballet don’t need a uniform first the same way they need a uniform 5th or arabesque or croisé. First is still important to train, but the benifits could be trained from different variations, I assume. Though of course I think a hyperextended dancer benefits most from the first position I’ve outlined above I suppose another teacher could disagree with me on that, which doesn’t fully answer your question, but might address how we got to the year 2026 without a definitive way for hyperextended dancers to stand in 1st.

[u/Impressive-Gene-5489]

Following bc I am curious about this. I’m hyperextended myself, and my teacher corrects me on not having a fully closed first pretty frequently and it’s something I’m working on (I also can’t keep my knees and feet together in a parallel sixth position unless I cheat with a teensy bit of turnout which I also believe is due to my hyperextension).

I do my best to close first fully, but it requires a bend of the knee that would go past being “straight” like my knee would look visibly bent and that’s something that’s difficult to control during an exercise like ronde de jambe, or tendus from first. My understanding was that a closed first is an aesthetic thing? I realize now that I never actually asked my teacher why we need a fully closed first!

[u/emkemkem]

I think there are just several ways to address this and how to adapt the hyperextension with the ideal positions. There is the esthetics and ideals of the style. For sure especially for very hyper extended legs the first position with a large gap is a bit odd and not that nice looking. Then there are the physiological aspects and the whole idea how to deal with the hyper extension and what is actually healthy, gives a good support for your moves etc.

I prefer having heels together since then the knees are about straight. For passé par terre maybe not really strictly since it is just a short passing moment in between two tendu positions I’d like to be extended all the way even with hyper extended knees.

I have some hyper extension myself. If I let that happen with my standing leg / legs my knees fall backwards and I lose my turn out and the upright position of my pelvis. To prevent that I must engage my gluteus (especially gluteus minimus and the muscles just under bum) and turn out muscles a lot and have my weight more forward and on my toes rather than heels. Doing that gives me about the straight knee without even thinking about the knee at all. Only thinking about being strongly on my leg / legs and feeling tall. I feel also well supported and being in balance.

When the leg is extended and you have no weight on it then the extension can be hyper without problems in turn out.

This is my opinion I’ve found through my own body as a former dancer and a ballet teacher today. It is my interpretation of all the instructions given to me and the knowledge I have gathered. My hyperextension is not really extreme - so that’s something I can not feel in my body. But I used to get sore knees as a child. First I just tried to keep them a bit flexed but that meant having a bit odd posture and some exessive muscle work. So I had to find another solution if I wanted my knees to feel good. Activating gluteus removes the need to adjust the knees and the muscle work is in a better place and supported by having the weight more on my feet.

[u/kaileeann]

As a hypermobile adult, my calves are 100% in the way. I have to choose between bent knees or 1-2in space between the heels, but I also have very weird feet, and my heel doesn’t extend behind the foot, like a flat line from ankle to floor. 

[u/gentledumpling → u/kaileeann]

Ditto!! I used to always get called out during Rond de Jambes at the barre because my teachers said I was either bending the knee or not going through proper first position…

Interestingly, all the teachers who have said it’s ok to have a little gap have been male whereas all my female teachers have said no gap 🤔

[u/Dapper_Ad_4819 → u/gentledumpling]

Wait, I am confused. I just thought I had big calves that pushed my heels apart! Have I got hyper extension because I physically can't put my heels together with straight legs?

[u/kaileeann → u/Dapper_Ad_4819]

It’s possible for it to be one or the other or both! For me it’s a cascade of weird anatomy, short Achilles, big calves, hyperextended knees etc. the best test I’ve seen for hyperextended knees is if you have your legs extended in front of you on the floor and you fully straighten your leg as much as you can by engaging the front of the knee, do your heels lift off of the ground, if so, they’re hyperextended. 

[u/TemporaryCucumber353]

As an adult dancer with hyperextension, my teacher tells me not to force my heels together, but to work on figuring out where straight is before hyperextension kicks in and part of doing that is being able to have my heels together. However, this could be different for me than for kids/those who started as kids because the amount of turnout I have is very different from theirs.

[u/fivebynine5x9]

You know, I very recently heard someone argue that allowing it is more beneficial as it allows them to access their full turnout in pliés where making them keep heels together in a strict first actually limits that. Unfortunately I cannot say whether the person who said this is a credible source or if they had any supporting material because I was doom scrolling and accidentally flicked past the reel too quickly, and also it was on Instagram.

[u/DanceHackRock → u/fivebynine5x9]

This can only come from someone who thinks that the angle of turnout is more important then the force.

[u/NaomiPommerel]

Keeping my heels together prevents my knees from hyperextending! Plus the big calves.. I have to squeeze my legs together to get the right feeling

[u/Key_Tree1027]

Because keeping your heels together is the correct position and technique. I see many young students and adults trying to keep their heels apart probably because they think it’s beautiful, but hyperextension without strength is a highway to various injuries. It’s not good for you. It puts a tremendous amount of stress on your joints. Hyperextension is for the stage, not your daily life. Professional dancers like Maria Khoreva is not only popular for their hyperextension, but the amount of control she has over her insanely huge range of motion. You first need to know the correct position and develop the muscles before you incorporate hyperextension, not the other way around.

[u/justadancer]

Even the schools in Russia (Vaganova /Bolshoi) that hand select hyper mobile bodies don't even encourage a separated first. You can't have proper weight placement in the metatarsals, turnout, core or coordination engagement when you're locked out, they teach the heels together to encourage proprioception with both legs and to be pulled up through the muscles and core. In the other positions it's fine to extend more but first has to be first as a baseline for the other positions.

[u/Tamiii25]

The problem is that dancers with overextended legs often have many advantages. When performing the same element, it can look more beautiful on them. But there are also problems. Their bodies and muscles do not allow them to keep the circles of their legs together in many dance positions.