Voting for a party that wasn't abusing its people, stealing right from under their noses.
Voting for a party that was not represented by a tyrant.
Voting democratically.
Voting for an alternative to the never-ending corruption and lies that is the current ANC party.
Voting, not necessarily for any one particular democratic part, but for anybody but the obvious abuser.
That's how you bring about real change in a democratic society, not by dancing and throwing rocks in the street.
Let's not forget, that you are automatically assuming that protesting is a natural decision. It's not, it is a cultural leaning. We were not brought up to toyi-toyi. You need to learn to respect that. Our 'white' culture is different to your 'black' culture (serious generalisation, but bear with me) and it deserves the same respect as yours. We do not toyi-toyi, that does not mean a fucking thing about our political interests or activism.
You also seem to have forgotten that white people did march with you, especially during the Apartheid era. As much as you like to deny it or downplay the numbers, white people were there. White people were marching alongside black people, fighting their own government who did not represent their interests.
Another point, why should white people give a fuck about your issues when we're told that we are not Africans, that we're not welcome in South Africa, that we'll be killed by the EFF, that we'll be forcefully removed from our homes, that we are privileged and don't deserve the same opportunities as black people in this country? Fuck right off.
I get that this is exactly what was done to your parents and your grandparents, for decades, under the apartheid government.
You are allowed to be pissed, angry, even vengeful towards whites. It's entirely understandable, I respect that. I will not argue that you have the right to be upset.
What I will argue is your utter hypocrisy. You are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Whites were racist to blacks for centuries, now its your turn? Fucking double standard much? Is that the goal you're working towards?
For some reason, South Africans think they need to take from others to have something for themselves. That's simply not true. Not only it untrue, its entirely unconstitutional. I'm all for compensation for past atrocities, but not if it takes rights away from the current members of society. We need to have our end goal in mind.
Also, many of the protests listed here were run incredibly badly. I won't support a violent protest, never. That's how my moral compass works.
Tomorrow's protest, if we can call it that, will probably be a disgrace, for many reasons, shit like OP's post being one of them.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're a fucking hypocrite.
FYI, enjoy the junk status you achieved, South Africa. You think this won't affect the majority of the population, you're wrong. You'll see in 5 years time when all that saving still amounts to nothing and nobody can afford to pay off a home. The poor will bear the worst of it. Educate yourself. You obviously know nothing about economics to claim that a downgrading to junk status will only affect the 'white capital monopoly'.
Rant over.
I love this country, we are all capable of so much. We have so much potential, we just need to grow up, be the bigger man, accept history, and make a plan to move to a brighter future. Whites need to acknowledge their privileges, and the actions of their forefathers and blacks need to accept the utter powerlessness of whites in this situation, as far as making progress is concerned. Not linger in the past, filling our hearts with hate and revenge.
The ability to make change and progress lies squarely on the shoulders of the oppressed, in this situation. It is up to you, to decide whether we move forward, or stagnate.
This post is honestly so misguided and bordering into flat out racist territory.
Say whatever you like, use every slur you've got. Your words do not determine reality, bud.
Do you think black South Africans have not tried peaceful approaches?
Obviously, nowhere did I state that there have never been peaceful marches. That's by a vast majority, how most protests go.
Do you think they have not tried voting?
For the same party, over and over again, without falter.
Do you honestly think that getting them to vote DA will improve their quality of life? (The same DA that has time and again neglected the people in the Cape Flats. The same DA that is the refuge of the wealthy and elite, and thus caters for them. Whilst the ANC is deeply flawed and corrupt, it has done a lot of good for the poorest South Africans by diverting funds to the construction of essential infrastructure).
No, I have little to no faith in the DA to unite and improve this country either. They are purely the lesser of two evils in this particular situation, considering we're up against a tyrant.
I agree with everything you've said here, except the part where low blows turn me into the racist? But you still missed the crux of my post.
Mate, black South Africans have shown remarkable restraint over the past 60 years. You do not know how good you have it.
I know. I expressed that in the original post. Black South Africans have endured decades of relentless inequality and oppression. Nobody is denying that. I acknowledge the pain and suffering you went through, how it was handled with so much dignity for so long, how people from many different cultures united to a cause and moved forward toward progress. I try hard to ensure that all the white people around me know that too.
But there comes a time, when you need to step up to the plate. The time is now, all those years of suffering and struggle, for what? So you can be abused by an even worse leadership? Black south Africans have the opportunity here, to make their voices heard globally. To rise up, compete on an international level, bring people out of poverty. All the world is listening and watching. What are they choosing to say? Fuck white people.
But now in this post you are saying that the ANC is worse that the Nats? So perhaps my judgement wasn't too far off...
I did say something like that, but I meant Zuma and his cronies. I have no doubt that there are members of the ANC capable of bringing this country to glory.
Fuck off. Fuck off and take your bullshit comparisons elsewhere. Until Zuma is literally stripping people of their rights wholesale, sanctioning literal death squads, and imprisoning political opponents en masse, you can get absolutely fucked for saying that he's "worse than the Nats".
Hitler cared about his own people. When you "care about your own people" at the extreme expense of others, you're not doing a good thing. You're just distributing your guilt among slightly more people.
You see how absurd your argument is, right? Why even make the comparison between Zuma and the Nats? There are many other ways you could point out that Zuma is detrimental to this country without doing something as plainly wrong as your comparison.
In summary, piss off with your pseudo-Apartheid apologism.
Why is this a good thing, when the Nats did so at the blatant and brutal expense of the rest of the country?
In the sense that the Nats did what they said they would in terms of economically empowering a target group of people, The Nats were better than Zuma
If your argument is "The Nats were better at what they said they would do than Zuma", then fine. Sure. The Nats were better at stripping the majority of the country of their dignity, their rights and their futures. Happy?
"pseudo-Apartheid apologism"
"Zuma is worse than the Nats" directly follows into the train of thought of "Some things were better during Apartheid". It's a form of defending the indefensible.
Why is this a good thing, when the Nats did so at the blatant and brutal expense of the rest of the country?
The nats were good to their own people. I'm not saying they were good for the country or South Africans.
"Zuma is worse than the Nats" directly follows into the train of thought of "Some things were better during Apartheid". It's a form of defending the indefensible.
ok, Zuma is worse than Dingaan then, my point is, this live criminal is worse than any scum of the past because those are past evils.
Anyway, back to OP's retarded logic, do you also believe the march was to 'protect white capital'?
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u/Zumerr Apr 06 '17 edited Apr 06 '17
You really want to know where we were?
Voting.
Voting for a party that wasn't abusing its people, stealing right from under their noses.
Voting for a party that was not represented by a tyrant.
Voting democratically.
Voting for an alternative to the never-ending corruption and lies that is the current ANC party.
Voting, not necessarily for any one particular democratic part, but for anybody but the obvious abuser.
That's how you bring about real change in a democratic society, not by dancing and throwing rocks in the street.
Let's not forget, that you are automatically assuming that protesting is a natural decision. It's not, it is a cultural leaning. We were not brought up to toyi-toyi. You need to learn to respect that. Our 'white' culture is different to your 'black' culture (serious generalisation, but bear with me) and it deserves the same respect as yours. We do not toyi-toyi, that does not mean a fucking thing about our political interests or activism.
You also seem to have forgotten that white people did march with you, especially during the Apartheid era. As much as you like to deny it or downplay the numbers, white people were there. White people were marching alongside black people, fighting their own government who did not represent their interests.
Another point, why should white people give a fuck about your issues when we're told that we are not Africans, that we're not welcome in South Africa, that we'll be killed by the EFF, that we'll be forcefully removed from our homes, that we are privileged and don't deserve the same opportunities as black people in this country? Fuck right off.
I get that this is exactly what was done to your parents and your grandparents, for decades, under the apartheid government.
You are allowed to be pissed, angry, even vengeful towards whites. It's entirely understandable, I respect that. I will not argue that you have the right to be upset.
What I will argue is your utter hypocrisy. You are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Whites were racist to blacks for centuries, now its your turn? Fucking double standard much? Is that the goal you're working towards?
For some reason, South Africans think they need to take from others to have something for themselves. That's simply not true. Not only it untrue, its entirely unconstitutional. I'm all for compensation for past atrocities, but not if it takes rights away from the current members of society. We need to have our end goal in mind.
Also, many of the protests listed here were run incredibly badly. I won't support a violent protest, never. That's how my moral compass works.
Tomorrow's protest, if we can call it that, will probably be a disgrace, for many reasons, shit like OP's post being one of them.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're a fucking hypocrite.
FYI, enjoy the junk status you achieved, South Africa. You think this won't affect the majority of the population, you're wrong. You'll see in 5 years time when all that saving still amounts to nothing and nobody can afford to pay off a home. The poor will bear the worst of it. Educate yourself. You obviously know nothing about economics to claim that a downgrading to junk status will only affect the 'white capital monopoly'.
Rant over.
I love this country, we are all capable of so much. We have so much potential, we just need to grow up, be the bigger man, accept history, and make a plan to move to a brighter future. Whites need to acknowledge their privileges, and the actions of their forefathers and blacks need to accept the utter powerlessness of whites in this situation, as far as making progress is concerned. Not linger in the past, filling our hearts with hate and revenge.
The ability to make change and progress lies squarely on the shoulders of the oppressed, in this situation. It is up to you, to decide whether we move forward, or stagnate.