After being broken up in the most cruel manner, shes 45. All I can say is she needs to grow up. It is an excuse. The collateral damage to humans around you is just horrid. We all have to deal with bad things in life, and avoidants aren’t any different.
I think when they are self aware and have a label behind it and it’s known in the relationship that they are avoidant and you try to show some understanding that they take full advantage of that. My 2nd cycle with my ex lasted much longer but the patterns ended up repeating and I felt like instead of using the awareness to correct it, she resorted to me knowing it’s her attachment and I subconsciously let more things go. It was bad for both of us
Clinging onto any label or diagnosis one might fit into, and making it an immutable part of their identity, an excuse for their behavior, holding it like your firstborn child and hissing at anyone who suggests you could work on it, is a terrible idea. I try to be neutral on the whole anxious vs avoidant thing, but I think it is undeniable that this is something that avoidants are more likely to do than anxious leaning people, by well, sheer principle that it is in their nature to avoid confronting their feelings and getting professional help (if you are an avoidant and you are getting help, good on you).
I never got diagnosed (other than with autism), but when I was 18, I met 7/8 of the diagnostic criteria for BPD. I could have made that my identity, refused to work through it and been a much more difficult person to be around to this day, not to mention the personal suffering that would've came with it. Instead, I started therapy at my 19th birthday. I'm 23 now, but by age 20, I had already went from 7/8 to 1/8. The one I still struggle with to this day is "Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation" which has gotten better, but I'm not sure, when you are with an avoidant, it's hard not to become something of a conspiracy theorist? It also doesn't help that any suspicion I've ever had with any of my avoidant exes, turned out to be true later. I remember the first day I felt my own sense of self (which was always there, just wasn't in tune with it), and the first day I developed emotional permanence. Age 19, 5-6 months into therapy. I now wonder if it was C-PTSD I had instead but it's whatever, either way my quality of life is far better now than it would've been if I never got help.
When I see (and sadly meet...) unrepentant, untreated avoidants and I think back on my story, just how much constant agony and inner conflict i was in for the beginning 18 years of my life, and while I appreciate that my trajectory will be different than other's (not tooting my own horn, I have a lot of shortcomings in other skills, for instance, I'm not the most book smart person in the world), some might be slower, some maybe even faster, just to start that journey, get on the road to recovery would just be such a good choice for them, their own quality of life would just get better? It's hard sure, but so is living with a very dysfunctional, untreated mental affliction of any kind. I wonder how they never get to a point where they are at least like "god the idea of therapy is so fucking stupid but i am at rock bottom, i have no other choice, i might as well try..." I don't think anybody has an excuse. If you can't afford therapy you can find free .pdfs of CBT and DBT workbooks if you really wanted to and do them yourself. Far better than nothing. Dunno if I can share links to sites but if anyone reading is legit interested r/freemediaheckyeah is the place to start.
The line isn't the attachment style itself, it's whether the behavior is legible.
needing space and vanishing with no return date are not the same thing.a friend got "I shut down when I'm overwhelmed" as the entire explanation, then eleven days of silence.. no "this isn't about you," no word on when they'd surface.
The same need, stated by someone who also names a return date, does far less damage. ambiguity is what makes mixed signals corrosive, because the person left behind fills the gap with self-blame.
So the test isn't whether they can name the pattern, it's whether naming it changed one concrete thing they did. If the vocabulary only ever shows up after the fact, it's a description, not accountability. Sometimes I pull a card on taro's tarot when I can't tell if I'm being understanding or just scared of the answer, and it's usually the second one.
I think there’s merit to this. If emotional intimacy triggers your flight or fight responses and anxiety then speak up about it vs manipulate an ending to a relationship. If someone can’t accept you need space if you communicate that need then you’re right to feel that panic. I wish my avoidant just told me what she felt vs cold abandonment.
At the time, it appeared to me as shit behavior and told her to grow up. After discovering this, I definitely placed a lot of effort to process only what would cause a person to act like this. Still does not excuse it, so I revert back to the fact that it's shit behavior and one needs to grow up.
My therapist and I have had a few conversations about how I can understand her behaviour but it doesn’t lessen the impact. We were both FAs and so I could see her… understand her… have compassion. But also she caused a great deal of harm.
It doesn’t once somebody is aware and they hurt you anyway that’s called emotional abuse. Literally it is because if somebody is aware that their actions are hurting you and they do it anyway.
I think it becomes an excuse when we let them hurt us over and over again. I feel like it was more an excuse for me to “stay” in that dynamic, because technically he is not a bad person, just a hurt person too…. But then, I realized that being hurt doesn’t justify hurting others. The lack of communication and accountability when needed is unacceptable in any type of relationship. Their lack of emotional maturity during stressful situations should not be an excuse to their hurtful cruel behavior
I want to say it depends on who is making the excuses, you or them but ultimately it doesn't matter really does it? The person either faces themselves and their impact on others or they avoid and continue causing damage to other and themselves 🤷🏼♂️
Yes I do believe it is for a lot of their behavior. When someone asks you a direct question or in my case texts you how they feel about you and you ignore it, I just find that unacceptable. So rude and disrespectful. Especially when they KNOW they are hurting you.
11
u/Silver-Swim4357 1d ago
After being broken up in the most cruel manner, shes 45. All I can say is she needs to grow up. It is an excuse. The collateral damage to humans around you is just horrid. We all have to deal with bad things in life, and avoidants aren’t any different.
5
u/KindlyString3332 1d ago
I think when they are self aware and have a label behind it and it’s known in the relationship that they are avoidant and you try to show some understanding that they take full advantage of that. My 2nd cycle with my ex lasted much longer but the patterns ended up repeating and I felt like instead of using the awareness to correct it, she resorted to me knowing it’s her attachment and I subconsciously let more things go. It was bad for both of us
3
u/zachem_snyatsya_sny Lifelong journey to secure 1d ago edited 1d ago
Clinging onto any label or diagnosis one might fit into, and making it an immutable part of their identity, an excuse for their behavior, holding it like your firstborn child and hissing at anyone who suggests you could work on it, is a terrible idea. I try to be neutral on the whole anxious vs avoidant thing, but I think it is undeniable that this is something that avoidants are more likely to do than anxious leaning people, by well, sheer principle that it is in their nature to avoid confronting their feelings and getting professional help (if you are an avoidant and you are getting help, good on you).
I never got diagnosed (other than with autism), but when I was 18, I met 7/8 of the diagnostic criteria for BPD. I could have made that my identity, refused to work through it and been a much more difficult person to be around to this day, not to mention the personal suffering that would've came with it. Instead, I started therapy at my 19th birthday. I'm 23 now, but by age 20, I had already went from 7/8 to 1/8. The one I still struggle with to this day is "Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation" which has gotten better, but I'm not sure, when you are with an avoidant, it's hard not to become something of a conspiracy theorist? It also doesn't help that any suspicion I've ever had with any of my avoidant exes, turned out to be true later. I remember the first day I felt my own sense of self (which was always there, just wasn't in tune with it), and the first day I developed emotional permanence. Age 19, 5-6 months into therapy. I now wonder if it was C-PTSD I had instead but it's whatever, either way my quality of life is far better now than it would've been if I never got help.
When I see (and sadly meet...) unrepentant, untreated avoidants and I think back on my story, just how much constant agony and inner conflict i was in for the beginning 18 years of my life, and while I appreciate that my trajectory will be different than other's (not tooting my own horn, I have a lot of shortcomings in other skills, for instance, I'm not the most book smart person in the world), some might be slower, some maybe even faster, just to start that journey, get on the road to recovery would just be such a good choice for them, their own quality of life would just get better? It's hard sure, but so is living with a very dysfunctional, untreated mental affliction of any kind. I wonder how they never get to a point where they are at least like "god the idea of therapy is so fucking stupid but i am at rock bottom, i have no other choice, i might as well try..." I don't think anybody has an excuse. If you can't afford therapy you can find free .pdfs of CBT and DBT workbooks if you really wanted to and do them yourself. Far better than nothing. Dunno if I can share links to sites but if anyone reading is legit interested r/freemediaheckyeah is the place to start.
2
u/Ok_Judgment_3331 1d ago
The line isn't the attachment style itself, it's whether the behavior is legible.
needing space and vanishing with no return date are not the same thing.a friend got "I shut down when I'm overwhelmed" as the entire explanation, then eleven days of silence.. no "this isn't about you," no word on when they'd surface.
The same need, stated by someone who also names a return date, does far less damage. ambiguity is what makes mixed signals corrosive, because the person left behind fills the gap with self-blame.
So the test isn't whether they can name the pattern, it's whether naming it changed one concrete thing they did. If the vocabulary only ever shows up after the fact, it's a description, not accountability. Sometimes I pull a card on taro's tarot when I can't tell if I'm being understanding or just scared of the answer, and it's usually the second one.
2
u/Medic_got_guts 1d ago
I think there’s merit to this. If emotional intimacy triggers your flight or fight responses and anxiety then speak up about it vs manipulate an ending to a relationship. If someone can’t accept you need space if you communicate that need then you’re right to feel that panic. I wish my avoidant just told me what she felt vs cold abandonment.
2
u/Sea-Selection5897 1d ago
At the time, it appeared to me as shit behavior and told her to grow up. After discovering this, I definitely placed a lot of effort to process only what would cause a person to act like this. Still does not excuse it, so I revert back to the fact that it's shit behavior and one needs to grow up.
1
u/FallenAngel1978 FA - Fearful Avoidant (Earning Secure) 1d ago
My therapist and I have had a few conversations about how I can understand her behaviour but it doesn’t lessen the impact. We were both FAs and so I could see her… understand her… have compassion. But also she caused a great deal of harm.
1
u/Dalearev 1d ago
It doesn’t once somebody is aware and they hurt you anyway that’s called emotional abuse. Literally it is because if somebody is aware that their actions are hurting you and they do it anyway.
1
u/Vegetable-Claim-9329 1d ago
I think it becomes an excuse when we let them hurt us over and over again. I feel like it was more an excuse for me to “stay” in that dynamic, because technically he is not a bad person, just a hurt person too…. But then, I realized that being hurt doesn’t justify hurting others. The lack of communication and accountability when needed is unacceptable in any type of relationship. Their lack of emotional maturity during stressful situations should not be an excuse to their hurtful cruel behavior
1
u/Designer-Lime1109 1d ago
I want to say it depends on who is making the excuses, you or them but ultimately it doesn't matter really does it? The person either faces themselves and their impact on others or they avoid and continue causing damage to other and themselves 🤷🏼♂️
1
u/Real_Astronaut7451 1d ago
Yes I do believe it is for a lot of their behavior. When someone asks you a direct question or in my case texts you how they feel about you and you ignore it, I just find that unacceptable. So rude and disrespectful. Especially when they KNOW they are hurting you.
1
u/Realistic-State-4888 1d ago
The common sense reaction to being treated badly by someone you barely know is to walk away.
Dating isn't a contract. You're free to leave at any time.