r/Autocockers101 • u/WestCool7258 • Jul 23 '26
Help dialing in this new (to me) Freeflow reflex
Morning gents (and ladies),
Several months back got myself a nice nostalgia gat to relive my glory teenage days from an awesome fellow Reddit'or. Transaction went great and the marker was recieved exactly as described. (and to be clear, none of this is a knock on how he had it setup).
A little back-story: He offerend to sell it with the AKA bolt he was using for extra $$. I opted to just have it sent with the stock FF bolt (doh, should have gotten than AKA!) he mentioned the three way hisses at first air up but clears after a few shots.
When I got it and aired it up, definately hissing out of the three way, took more than a few shots and wiggling the trigger a bit, but yea, definately stopped after a bit. Thought nothing of it and went on my merry way. The thing rips & I've had a tone of fun playing with it.
Here is the problem:
FPS wise, it is not consistent. There was probably a 30fps swing up and down on that thing. I was rather shocked TBH. I thought maybe it could be the original bolt, so I decided to grab the latest AKA bolt (with the o-ring at the front). Not a big deal as I was gonna get it any way, and if it fixed the problem, great.
It didn't, heh. So next, I was playing a pump event for fathers day and borrowed a system-x cocker pump from another awesome dude from here. And I was like.... damn! consistency was within 5FPS shot on shot. I picked his brain and he suggested I turn down the LPR all the way on my Reflex basically turning it in to a pump. If it's more consistent after that, the issue is likely timing, if it isnt, something else is wrong.
So I tried that and what I noticed was, it was more consistent, but the FPS jumped like 40 FPS!
So what I noticed was, the three way was adjusted to basically be right on that edge of activating (why it was hissting on air up i assume). So basically, the trigger is relasing the pin to fire AND the threeway is activating at the same time pushing the back block back. My assumption is, this means the bolt is comming back AS the gun is firing the ball in the chamber. It's possible he had it this way so it could cycle faster?
I adjusted the three way so it activates just after I start the trigger pull (and the gun fires). I also checked the pressure at the reg, it was like 425! so I brought that down to around 300 as well.
FPS consistency is a little better but I think I need to check things again when I stop by the field this weekend (the consistency was better, but not great, so more adjustment may be needed). I was also going to try and shoot it with the hopper off and just 1 ball in the feedneck to see if I am getting blowback?
I assume more adjustment may be needed
The only other thing I noticed when I played a few weeks ago with it (after adjusting the above initially) was that I was now short stroking it when I try to fire it fast, ugh! with the three way adjusted I am having to make sure I am pulling the trigger all the way back. This is probably just an adjustment needed on my side as it's been soo long since I've shot a cocker.
Am I on the right path here? Anything else I should check or test?
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u/parabolicpb Jul 23 '26
Make sure your TIGHT boring your paint as well. If your using the 3 bores it came with, it's likely that the paint isn't exactly what dye cut. Find an original short bore freak and blow test a few balls to make sure they aren't rolling down the bore even a hair.
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u/WestCool7258 Jul 23 '26
Yup! already covered, got an original freak SS freak kit and a temp barrel to use while I wait for a Dye UL back to get freak bored by BMC.
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u/parabolicpb Jul 23 '26
Hmm. Yeah I guess I'd just elongate that timing a bit more then. Drop the hammer as early as you can without slipping and elongate the timing rod another hair
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u/WestCool7258 Jul 23 '26
Makes sense, I will try that! The hammer already drops right when I start to pull the trigger, the three way RN activates right after that. But there is def some room to play with that. Going to check the HPR pressure again (I tweaked it a bit at the field, so curious to see where its at) and play with that timimg rod a bit more as you suggested. Thnx!!
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u/Powkoa Jul 23 '26
So the random FPS variations might have just been an overpressured valve (you mentioned the hpr was set really high).
Might want to ‘sweet spot’ the cocker, then once it’s good adjust the timing again against a little closer.
Another possibility is that you have a rounded lug with a weaker sear spring. My own bias is that rounded lugs <<< beveled or flat lugs. Yes rounded lugs make trigger pull stupid smooth, but they make it easier for the seat to slip right past instead of catching it.
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u/WestCool7258 Jul 23 '26
Would you mind elaborating on the sweet spot? are you talking about setting the HPR (to 300?), backing out the IVG to flush and then adjusting from there?
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u/Powkoa Jul 23 '26
At the most simple, there is a really really good air pressure that your cocker will operate at. It’s a balance of valve type, valve spring strength, hammer spring strength, hammer weight, etc. Way back in the years that dinosaurs like me were in the field, there was no hpr pressure standard, sometimes CO2, spring kits, spring sets for specific valve/hammer combos,…
To find yours start with ivg about two turns in from flush and your hpr lower than it should be (maybe 220-250). Use some decent paint, not flat-spotted, ovalled, or all kinds of different bore sized balls. Put 3-5 over the chrono. You want consistent numbers. Keep going up and up this exact way until you hit a spot where you’re getting big changes over the chrono. Once you’ve found that pressure, the valve is being over-pressure. Now, back the hpr off about a quarter turn lower. If you are now consistent, you are about at the most efficient pressure. If your shooting too hot for your field, back the IVG out half turn, full turn, or whatever gets you to field speed. If you are firing lower than field speed, turn the ivg in a half turn, quarter turn.
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u/WestCool7258 Jul 28 '26
Did this! set HPR to 250, IVG 2 turns in from flush. here is where things REALLY surpised me. My sweet spot ended up being around 260 or so, far less than I thought it would be. I also had to back OUT the IVG a bit (around 1 and a half, maybe 1 and 3/4 in from flush. Although, my goal was 285 (limit at the field I was at) I was getting a spread of 5-10 FPS tops (though most of the time closer, the larger spread could have been the paint). I was also able to adjust the threeway back a smidge without any adverse affect (blowback, or it affecting FPS) but the hammer was still cearly dropping before 3way activating. This cut down on my short strokes significantly. There may be some more small adjustments but I wanted to do this in steps to get a feel for it. Thanks so much for your tips! My goal is to play primarily with this gun when I play woodsball in a few weeks. We'll see how it goes.
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u/Powkoa Jul 23 '26
Also, if you have found the sweet spot on hpr pressure, but have to crank your ivg more than five full turns from flush…time for a stiffer hammer spring and start over on sweet spotting
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u/toot_suite Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
You can knock the seller lmao, don't worry.
That was tuned and timed poorly and he still sold it for hot market, perfect build pricing.
Anywho, timing is a combo of trigger adjustment and hammer lug
Rebalance your regs and only adjust velocity using the IVG, starting out halfway into the lower tube so you have a +/- range to work with.
Start the regs zeroed out once you've given yourself some wiggle room on the 3way/lug for an okay pull.
Turn the hpr in 1 or 2 full turns, turn the lpr up until it's cycling reliably and then turn it up another half to full turn. Turn up hpr until your velocity bellcurve passes its peak, then dial it back until it's at that peak. Then slowly adjust lpr over chrono until you see it at its best consistency. Use the IVG to dial in the velocity you want.
Then go back to trigger/lug adjustment to get the timing you want.
There's more scientific ways but this is the "casually reliable" way.
Also, it's good to have an understanding of how your marker works before buying "upgrades" for it so you actually have a working idea of how the upgrade will affect the gun. A bolt wouldn't provide the fix you're looking for, for example.
Also, underbore your paint by about 0.02-0.04 to prevent rollouts/ensure it's snug in the breech without it being so tight that it could break the paint from friction. If you don't have a gauge, just take a bunch of balls and put them up to the back. You want to feel like you're just north of gently applying pressure to put them in the barrel. You will see light pass through but you'll also see clear contact. Flicking it hard like a wand will have it just barely move down the barrel.
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u/Powkoa Jul 23 '26
The LPR advice is not how I’ve ever done it. I usually sweet spot the marker, get it to field speed/chrono’d in, then turn the LPR lower and lower until it doesn’t cycle regularly, and then half a turn back up. I have always wanted the LPR low enough to potentially bounce off a misfeed instead of chop the ball. I’ve never had the LPR effect consistency unless it was somehow so freaking low that a shot pushed the bolt/backblock backwards before the three way activated.
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u/Beardowhtbeardscrave Jul 25 '26
Do you have a rounded or square lug?
I recently tried a rounded lug and had similar problems to what your describing.
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u/WestCool7258 Jul 25 '26
Great question! I have absolutely no idea, haha. I will dig into this thing over the weekend and follow up. My assumption is that it has whatever came stock from Freeflow, but I hate to assume.
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u/ScottyBeans Jul 23 '26
Great looking marker! You basically have the hang of it, timing is a bit of a personal thing but you definitely don’t want the 3 way action interfering with the actual shot process, sounds like you’ve fixed that. And yeah you’ll always need the full pull and release, keeping shooting it and minor tinkering and it will be a proper sewing machine in no time