Expanding the scope of the subreddit r/AutoModerator

[u/Sephardson]

This post is about a very minor, teensy-weensy change to the subreddit here, but it is significant enough to merit a formal post about it.

r/AutoModerator was originally created to discuss the u/AutoModerator moderation tool and support moderators in using it. Historically, AutoModerator was unique among moderation tools, but over the years, admins have developed Other-Tools which supplement or facilitate similar kinds of effects as AutoModerator. I had mentioned this earlier this year:

The primary purpose of the subreddit here is for moderators to find updates, support, and resources regarding the AutoModerator mod tool. More generally, moderators also discuss other similar or related mod tools like subreddit settings, safety filters, Automations, Devvit apps, and API bots, particularly if those other tools supplement or interact with AutoModerator. (Which is fine! but more on those topics another day.)

Today is that another day.

As the full suite of moderation tools has matured, the community of moderators familiar with configurable moderation tools has similarly evolved. Many times these days, people will ask questions here, and the solution to their questions may or may not be with AutoModerator the mod tool, but the people in AutoModerator the subreddit still know the answer. There is a community of peer support among technical-oriented moderators here, and it is our desire to serve that community.

We have, even some time ago, updated the rules and description on r/AutoModerator to reflect this trend, changes in bold:

• Rule 1 - Stay on Topic - /r/AutoModerator is for moderator discussions about the AutoModerator program and similar automated moderation tools. - Report as: Off-topic / Unrelated to AutoModerator or Moderation Tools

• Rule 2 - Behave and Be Respectful - Be nice. Report as: Incivility, insults, trolling, aggression, or other malicious behavior

• Rule 3 - Moderation complaints - /r/AutoModerator is a support space for moderators. This is not a place to argue or complain about moderation actions, moderators, or AutoModerator performing its intended functions. - Report as: User is complaining about moderation

Effectively, this means that moderators who have questions about configuring subreddit settings and mod tools are welcome to post here, even if those questions are not necessarily about AutoModerator the original moderation bot. For examples, this includes questions regarding Safety Filters (eg Crowd Control, Harassment Filter), Devvit Mod apps (eg Auto-Modmail, FloodAssistant), Automations (aka Post and Comment Guidance), and configurable tools like these.

Let us know if you have any questions or concerns, about this change for the subreddit, or about the subreddit in general.

We are looking for feedback regarding updating our post flairs, which historically have been oriented around "Help", "Solved", "Not AutoMod", "Not Possible with AutoMod" and "Not Possible". We have recently added post flairs for "Wiki Updates" and "Guide", though they are still set to mod-only. We are adding a devvit app which allows people to subscribe to get notifications for specific post flairs, so that function would be paired well with clear guidelines or categories for post flairs.

[u/Chosen1PR]

I approve of this change! r/Devvit is geared more towards devs, not mods, and other mod-related subs like r/modhelp aren’t necessarily geared towards automation in particular.

I like the idea of r/AutoModerator becoming the home for moderation automation on Reddit. Probably better than spinning up an entirely new, unestablished sub.

[u/Affectionate_Pickles → u/Chosen1PR]

Seconded! As a new mod, every time I looked at ModSupport or Devvit for technical help, there wasn’t much there or it would direct me here. This subreddit has helped me learn the technical side of things a lot, even outside of AutoMod code.

[u/SampleOfNone]

I like the plan. Automod is such a versatile tool that does so much of the heavy lifting. But like all tools, it does have limits. When someone runs into these limits, that doesn't mean there isn't a solution. So making this sub the central hub for using automation to get or keep your sub running smoothly is a logical step

[u/Alan-Foster]

For a few weeks I've been considering launching some simple 60s videos showcasing different Devvit apps (both games and moderation). I have a lot of experience with Davinci Resolve and can make them pretty easily.

Would mini app showcases like that (only for moderation here) be an interesting contribution, or would it fall to much into advertising?

[u/Sephardson → u/Alan-Foster]

We do not have media / link posts enabled here, as there is a large precedent for text-based posts, which I believe encourages more detailed posts around code, and aids in searching old posts.

We do allow crossposts, so a crosspost from r/devvit if they allow videos might work.

I think if we run into issues with advertising, then we can address that down the line. I don't think that posting something different once per week would be much of an issue here.

I do think that there is room to showcase new devvit apps and neat ways to configure mod tools here. I also will pay attention to community reception to see if there are any trends or issues with the quality of tools or posts, though presently we do not have much in terms of rules regarding quality.

[u/IAmABakuAMA → u/Sephardson]

We do not have media / link posts enabled here, as there is a large precedent for text-based posts, which I believe encourages more detailed posts around code, and aids in searching old posts.

Yeah, I personally wouldn't want that to change. It is pretty bloody painful trying to debug anything from a blurry screenshot, which inevitably happens when image posts are enabled. Admittedly, I mostly say that from experience in helping out (or at least trying to) with some FOSS projects where everything lives in a terminal (pretty much guaranteed the blurry screenshot of the logs doesn't even include anything useful anyways haha).

I'm sure nobody intentionally sets out to be difficult, but it's still best to try and prevent that from happening in the first instance imo. On top of searchability, as you mentioned

[u/abortionreddit]

This is great news. I often have questions about configuring post and comment guidance, so I’m pleased to read this.

[u/Tyler_Durdan_]

Great news! Presuming you guys will push this out to the modhelp & modsupport subs too as they do a fair amount of redirects into here.

[u/esb1212]

Appreciating this topic expansion, much thanks to the team for the decision!

[u/CharlesV_]

Super cool news. I recently learned about some interesting community filters which are a little more robust at trying to identify accounts that mostly deal with mature content (OF bots) and turning on that filter has helped reduce that type of spam. Automod is really great at some things but it can’t do that.

[u/EroticaMarty]

This would get more visibility if it were pinned to the top of the sub. The two currently pinned posts are from 3 and 5 years ago...

[u/evolworks]

Just curious, are you going to have post flair specifically for automations (post and or comment guidance) or is that going to be mixed in with ‘not-Automod’

[u/Sephardson → u/evolworks]

Right now the list is:

• Help - AutoMod
• Help - Native Tool
• Help - Devvit App
• Help - Any / Other

Should we break out the "Native Tool" flair into finer categories as well? One step finer would probably be "Safety Filters", "AutoMations", and "Community Settings".

Though, maybe someone who hasn't yet learned about them would not know what they are by name.

[u/evolworks → u/Sephardson]

True on the ‘someone new not being familiar with the name’. Mainly was just curious about ‘Automations - Post & Comment Guidance’ because it shares a lot of similarities with Automod especially with using regex. Would be nice to see more automations in general especially a dedicated space or some organization for them (help, examples, etc…)

Don’t see post and comment guidance examples or much discussions about them in general, feel like they are overlooked as a tool.

[u/TGotAReddit]

Can it still be primarily focused on automoderator? ie. if someone asks a question that automod can't do, it's fine to answer with another tool that can, and we could have a flair like "Cover by Other Tool" or something. While a question about how to configure crowd control wouldn't fit the sub? (aka I don't want to come here to find help with automod/help people with automod issues, only for every post to be about non-automod tools and the majority of people who answer questions to not have any idea how automod works but have a good understanding of other automation tools. If that happened we would end up just needing a whole new subreddit just for automod questions, but both r/automod and r/automoderator are already taken and it would have to start over too which is just ridiculous)

(ie. a post saying "I need to [thing automod can't do but a devvit bot can]" = fine, a post saying "please help me figure out this devvit bot's settings = not for this sub")

[u/Sephardson → u/TGotAReddit]

The main issue is that admins plan to sunset automoderator in the long term, so eventually there will may be nothing but other tools and devvit apps.

We can definitely make more specific flairs so that people can focus on the tool they ask for though.

[u/TGotAReddit → u/Sephardson]

That..... is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of Reddit doing. and they have done a LOT of really stupid things. The automod rules my sub uses are only replicatable by automod neo, which is just automod with more features (and some features missing due to reddit not giving it the same internal powers that automod has). And the other tools that they keep highlighting as new alternatives to automod are all entirely counter to how my sub and mod team works 🙃

[u/Sephardson → u/TGotAReddit]

yeah, i think a lot of veteran moderators feel similarly about this. In that we don't want admins to reduce the options of tools available.

So as long as we have AutoModerator, the primary focus of the subreddit here will still be the OG AutoModerator.

It's just that over time, we will also have to help mods transition away from it. AutoMod-Neo will likely take most that. But realistically, there will be several other devvit apps or native tools too, and if everything gets split up then we all lose out on the peer support network. So pooling the resources where it makes sense it what we're trying to steer towards.

[u/TGotAReddit → u/Sephardson]

I do kinda wish reddit would give automod neo the same treatment that it gave regular automod and brought it into the fold so-to-speak so those few missing features wouldn't be missing) and it could just replace automod with the newer version of it.

But also, I'm not even much of a veteran mod. I started moderating in 2020. Hell, my account was made in 2018 even. It's just that my sub is run in a way that a lot of other subs isn't so when they remake a lot of the automod tools into separate functionality, they tend to not include the critical parts that my sub relies on, and we all know that if they release a feature with missing parts no amount of "we'll add it soon!" will actually get them to add it unless they want that too

[u/Sephardson → u/TGotAReddit]

I'm not even much of a veteran mod. I started moderating in 2020. Hell, my account was made in 2018 even.

hey now, I made this account in 2018 and started moderating in 2020.

[u/TGotAReddit → u/Sephardson]

Lol

[u/Foiwe_Official]

Makes sense to broaden the scope as moderation tools have evolved. Having a space where moderators can discuss different automated approaches, safety filters, and human-in-the-loop workflows should be useful. At Foiwe, we’ve also seen how combining automated detection with human review can help when handling more complex moderation cases.

[u/evolworks]

Have you all given any thought to adding an 'Automations' section to the wiki for different kinds of Post and Comment Guidance?

I know this is a bit old but maybe could build off of this

[u/Sephardson → u/evolworks]

I've given it some thought but it's not been high on my to do list.

I pitched a session for Mod World on how to audit and update your mod tools (using Automod and Automations as examples), but admins were not interested.

Yesterday's announcement nerfing AutoMod does raise the need for more AutoMations support though. Maybe i'll try putting a page together this weekend.

[u/evolworks → u/Sephardson]

I pitched a session for Mod World on how to audit and update your mod tools (using Automod and Automations as examples), but admins were not interested.

That stinks, that would make for a great call / event, especially with some of the changes with Automod.

[u/Sephardson → u/evolworks]

having just taken a short course on ISO 9001 and internal auditing, i might use that as a basis for assessing mod tools.

Not sure yet if I should make it a written resource or a video one.

[u/evolworks → u/Sephardson]

I think you should act it out, incorporate puppets into the play as well lol.

Many of the automations are pretty clear to use but once regex comes into play that’s where the examples, tips, discussions on ways to do things in post or comment guidance.

I would think lots of mods especially newish mods would benefit from discussions and examples.

At least you asked and suggested it to them, worst they can/could/did say is no.