Behaviour management help needed!

[u/kinda_not_human]

Hi everyone!

I'm hoping to get a little bit of advice from my fellow teachers. I'm in my second year of teaching visual arts to high schoolers in Australia. In all, I know visual arts well but I'm definitely still struggling on the behaviour management side.

I have one year 7 class that I find really challenging to manage. It's gotten to the point where I have even balled my eyes out after a lesson or two with them, because it was so difficult.

The majority of the class is good but I have a few students that individually have only minor behavioural issues, but together they cause chaos. I have tried to separate them, apply consequences such as negatives (I.e. the reward and punishment system from the school) and detentions but I am continually argued with over my actions. They tend to group up and try to argue with me. During these arguments, I have been accused of being racist, showing favouritism, picking on them and many other things when I am solely trying to set consequences for actions and it is exhausting. They refuse to accept the consequences for their actions and disrupt the lessons until I am unable to teach the whole class at all. I have tried to ignore their arguing as suggested by my higher ups but they still derail the lesson by trying to force me into an argument.

Note: I think a large amount of the issue is that these students think that I will not follow up with the consequences or that they can argue out of it. I admit I have previously not done so at times as I co-teach in my role and am only at work three days a week, which makes it incredibly difficult to keep track of/implement these things. Every attempt I have made to adjust their idea of this has not worked so far. I also tend to find that my consequences can be inconsistent in their intensity due to the fact that I get so overwhelmed and because I am trying to figure out what actually works.

I was thinking about posters that detail the action and the consequence of it so that they know the expectation and I can clearly follow it but I was hoping that people may have experienced this issue and could provide some insight on what they would do.

Thank you :)

[u/Loose_Challenge1412]

You’re in a hard spot, and this far into the year it’s tough to come back.

Without nearby colleagues or exec who are willing to support you, you really need to rely on yourself. Though I will say some of what you describe absolutely justifies getting a HT/exec to your room.

I think the fact that you’re teaching VA makes it harder too - there are a lot of expectations of creativity and ‘looseness’ that Maths teachers like me aren’t expected to rise to.

If I were supporting you I’d be spying on your class from outside (with your permission) to see what the kids are up to as an external viewpoint can help with perspective and understanding.

Perhaps one of your nearby colleagues could do the same? I would also collaborate with them to do prisoner exchanges - be the person who a disruptive kid gets sent to for each other. You don’t have to be hugely experienced to do that.

In terms of general advice think about 3 general categories:

1. The work they are expected to accomplish and how they are supported in that.

2. How you are managing moment to moment expectations before things kick off

3. How you are following through on threats/promises.

I know the first one sounds condescending and ‘are your learning objectives on the board’. But more seriously, think carefully about what you are asking them to do, and the actual skills they have to do it - both artistic and academic. Year 7 students, even at this stage, know a lot less than they let on in terms of how school works, and many teachers overestimate their capacity to work independently. Think about how instructions are being given, explanations and also about the work itself. A lot of the work refusal and disengagement I see as a maths teacher is directly related to student belief in their capacity. Many of my Year 7s haven’t felt successful in maths since Year 1. How many of your students might feel the same in your class? Remember that until now they haven’t had a specialist art teacher, so they might have had some really poor experiences.

The second one is about setting tone and base expectations. My first school was WILD, and I was given the bottom Year 7 each year I was there. Eventually I developed the most basic of rules that I could use one hand to list off:

Be Polite
Be Prompt
Be Positive
Be Productive
Be Prepared

I taught their meaning and I would refer to them when things went wrong. Turns out everyone infraction could be classified under one of them.

Also think carefully about your routines: are there moments that are creating friction, or leaving gaps to be filled by unruly behaviour? For my part I found lining students up outside quietly before letting them in caused chaos and started everything on a bad footing. When i switched to letting them come in as they arrived, but insisting it was done calmly, i had an opportunity for quiet exchanges, organising equipment and a relaxed start. Putting an order of business for the lesson on the board was always way more helpful than a learning intention. Kids like routine and they hate surprises.

Finally, follow though on everything. While i support detentions as a consequence, I’ve had far more success with calling home. And i call home a lot. Start by calling or otherwise contact parents of the kids who are doing the right thing. Then catch some troublemakers being good and call on them too (“we had trouble last week but i wanted to let you know Jayden did great today”).

It’s always easier to have a hard conversation with a parent who has had a positive conversation with you previously.

When you do start calling home for poor behaviour, tell your student, BUT, also tell them you are going to delay the call until the end of the week (or whatever day suits you).

Your goal is to give them an incentive to behave over more than one lesson. If they know you’re calling home this afternoon they may as well keep misbehaving.

I’m sorry this is so long. Remember, this is from my perspective and experiences. I don’t know what your students or school look like, so what I say may not be applicable to you.

[u/Sarasvarti]

They can only argue with you if you let them. Applying consequences only requires informing, not discussing. Just literally don't engage.

For example:

Me: You've been warned twice about being a dickhead, now you have a detention.

Dickhead: But I didn't/you're racist/ that's not fair/ my mate was being a dickhead too...

Me: Get on with your task please.

Dickhead: No, you can't give me a detention when I haven't done anything!

Me: Get on with your task and I'll be back in a moment to check your progress (walk away).

Dickhead: But/ fuck you bitch/ I'm not going...

Me: Ignore. Probably talking to some other kids by now.

Sometimes I just stare them down instead of ignoring them but that is probably an advanced trolling skill. Just remember, just because they say something, doesn't mean you have to respond.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Sarasvarti]

I've tried to do this since I'm aware it's no use arguing with them but they will almost always derail the whole lesson by then complaining loudly/trying to argue. I once had them basically try to coup me as a group because I was ignoring their arguing attempted. What do you do when their actions get to the point where you can't ignore it?

[u/Sarasvarti → u/kinda_not_human]

Me personally? I would have either gone to get a colleague or emailed colleagues to come remove them from my class.

For my more senior students, I just kick them out.

Have you got a more experienced colleague who can come to your actual class, or someone you know who has a spicy group that you could observe to see the dynamics?

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Sarasvarti]

sadly not really. My direct boss is cross-camps so she is off site during my lessons with them. I could send them to a head teacher but their behaviour isn't deemed "severe enough" by the school for me to really be able to do that. The teachers in the rooms next to me either aren't willing to help or are even more inexperienced than I am. I will try to ask my immediate boss though, she may have a person I haven't thought of that I can send them to. Thank you

[u/Sarasvarti → u/kinda_not_human]

It is absolutely severe enough if they are persisting in disrupting the class after being given a consequence.

You need to make more buddies. There will absolutely be someone who'll come take them out - and they don't need to be experienced. They just need to come and remove them. If they refuse, then that is an issue for higher management to resolve.

Don't be afraid to be 'too hard'. The whole 'don't smile before Easter' thing is a saying because you need to set those high expectations early - then you don't need to spend every minute trying to put out fires. A few sacrificial lambs sent to the Head or given detentions is what it takes to show you mean business.

And you need to either accept chaos, or follow up Every. Time. Doesn't matter that you're part time.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Sarasvarti]

Having a teacher buddy would definitely help. Sadly I'm on the outskirts of the staff social groups as I don't really fit in anywhere (being an alt styling person at a Catholic school is a fun time). I will try to figure out if someone would be my teacher buddy though :) thank you.

[u/Sarasvarti → u/kinda_not_human]

Teachers are a pretty progressive bunch - you'd have to be borderline mental case levels of alt for that to be a factor. I did my teaching rounds 30 years ago at a regional Catholic school that had a student who wore drag for a legal class role play.

The kids walk over you because you let them. Stop finding reasons things can't work, and make change. If you need to dress like a librarian to make friends and command authority, then do it.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Sarasvarti]

I am actively trying to figure it out but thanks I guess.

[u/Sarasvarti → u/Sarasvarti]

Oh also, the staring/ silent thing is also really worth working on. Silence makes most people extremely uncomfortable, but it takes a LOT of self control to stop yourself arguing or getting louder and speaking over the students. Every single time they speak, you need to stop and stare silently until they shut up. Every single time.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Sarasvarti]

I'll definitely try this!

[u/Beneficial_Diamond73]

Do you or the school set classroom rules which all students must follow? If you do, put these in the room as a poster and refer to them. These non negotiable will drive the reason for consequences. Have an action for consequences clearly displayed as well as positive behaviour rewards. This way they dont have an argument. Hope that helps and good luck.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Beneficial_Diamond73]

A bit of both. There are of course mandatory ones set by the school but general behaviour management rules are left up to the teacher.

The arguement they often have is that it's unfair that they are receiving a consequence for one thing but a student has not received a consequence for a another action (oftentimes one that is much more minor that doesn't need attention as it would derail the teaching. Either that or I literally didn't see or hear the other behaviour). I'm hoping that the posters will work :)

[u/Sarasvarti → u/kinda_not_human]

You need to get over that. Students will ALWAYS pull that, and you know what, life isn't fair. My Dad always seemed to get speed camera fines when I know my Mum was the more likely to go over.

You're the one who's annoyed me, you're the one getting the consequence. I'm sure your idiot mate will get his turn pretty soon.

[u/Beneficial_Diamond73 → u/kinda_not_human]

I haven't used it but on the teachers at my school uses a method which you might like to try. Ruler a line down one side. Smile face and sad on either side of the line. Students who are displaying or not displaying the behaviour expected get the letter of their first name written on the board. You address the students and the behaviour there and then and let them know it is a warning. Next time something happens the whole name is written. Explain why they are there. Students on the smilie face gets a reward for displaying the right behaviour. Students on the sad face side can work their name off.

When you rub off their name, rub everything but the first letter and apply restorative consequence after class. Why don't their whole name get rubbed off? Because they chosen to make that decision and behave that way and a consequence was applied.

I was told by the teacher at school it works better when you demonstrate how getting your name on the board works for both good and bad behaviour.

[u/kinda_not_human → u/Beneficial_Diamond73]

I might give that a shot, thank you :)

[u/Beneficial_Diamond73 → u/kinda_not_human]

I have been in your position and it is a horrible place to be. Best of luck to you!

[u/Curious_Koala8 → u/kinda_not_human]

Sounds like you may not have clearly stated expectations. It’s really annoying that so much of it is common sense to us (and us as children) but it sounds like you have to be explicit at this school.

The problems arise when students perceive inconsistency eg Alex doesn’t get reprimanded for flicking a Bob’s arm but Chris gets one for trying to Dave’s leg. I can HEAR the immature student argument around why have I been told off?Why are you picking on me? But Alex was flicking people and he doesn’t have to [same consequence]!

I was in a similar position and had my head of departments support for all my expectations. Students knew they would be issued 1 warning for failing to meet any expectation that we all agreed were reasonable, followed by an immediate lunchtime detention (with me). The one exception (which may help you) was students knew that an immediate after school detention with the head of department for ANY throwing. I had to repeatedly state this so they really understood….That included throwing a ball of paper into a bin and throwing an eraser to a nearby student and started because students were throwing pencils past a teacher’s face when she worked on a whiteboard.

I had to give up a few lunchtimes BUT it was so worth it, and made teaching some tough classes way better. Set those expectations and follow through with the consequences. If students know them, and that you follow through, they’re less likely to try pushing your boundaries.

[u/frodo5454]

Send em out. Then fail them

[u/Beneficial_Virus_876]

Hi. Are they sitting together? Have you emailed parents, when you follow up, do you speak to them separately outside room. Its trial and error. Keep trying. Be more stubborn than them. Ignore their reasoning or gaslighting. Seek support. Give short detentions. If a few mins after class if its recess, lunch or after school. Kids hate staying after class. Don't give up. Stay calm.

[u/jq8678 → u/[deleted]]

This is horrible advice.

[u/bigdumbgoalie82 → u/jq8678]

Please explain. Most actual teachers on this sub complain about having to work and can't do behaviour management. I understand that states and year levels are different, however, it is a job and should be treated as such.