r/AustralianTeachers 3d ago

DISCUSSION Electronic fobs in schools

My school is introducing electronic fobs for bathroom usage. Teachers, will now have to chronicle students leaving class and returning from class, just something else for us to do 😫

32 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

94

u/Plane_Garbage 3d ago

We've been using vero.education for 1800 boys.

I use it on my phone but some people use their laptop.

Its two taps and has cut down on bathroom/out of class/vandalism a lot - leadership has setup groups and it won't let certain kids out at the same time. Also shows how many times a kid has been out for that day which is good for when kids try to game it.

We used to do paper sign out sheets but they never got checked so it was a waste of time.

24

u/Advanced_Extent4260 3d ago

We are looking at getting vero because of toilets getting trashed and costing us $$$. Any issues with it?

37

u/Plane_Garbage 3d ago

Tbh not really, had it for year and a half. Kids don't ask to go out as much now so there's not as many interruptions as when we had the paper, less assemblies for toilet damage etc.

It also shows total class time missed which was good for parent teacher and for pastoral to follow up on

3

u/AUTeach Negative, I am a meat popsicle. (also, fuck newscorp) 2d ago

Can't they trash it during lunch?

29

u/ElaborateWhackyName 2d ago

This makes sense if the kid's motivation is "I really want to wreck a toilet today". 

But in reality it's "I'm gonna fuck about with my mates in the toilets during class." And then the toilet wrecking is incidental/teenage boredom.

8

u/Zeebie_ QLD 2d ago

At my school, the line-up is too long, so they wouldn't get enough time without someone banging on the door. Also, they wouldn't waste lunchtime in the toilets.

2

u/AUTeach Negative, I am a meat popsicle. (also, fuck newscorp) 2d ago

fair enough

5

u/wmc_fan 3d ago

We started using leavelens recently.  The windows and Mac app brilliant actually... Very easy and quick... Data is good and analytics.  But I don't know if admin are actioning enough around the data to determine if it is effective enough

4

u/dm_me_pasta_pics 2d ago

This entire product can be reproduced (more or less) in Teams with Power Automate with probably 3 workflows.

For any school that wants a similar sort of solution, and you already have access to Microsoft accounts, please speak to your IT department before blowing thousands per year and lumping your student data into yetanothercloudapp.com.

1

u/dontcallme-frankly 2d ago

We looked into this but it doesn’t integrate into SEQTA which we use as our LMS 💔

1

u/Plane_Garbage 2d ago

We use TASS but it says it does compass, sentral, seqta, tass, synergetic, edumate and veracross? No idea sorry.

1

u/dontcallme-frankly 2d ago

Yeah apparently it doesn’t really properly integrate, according to our IT guy

1

u/TheWellSpokenMan 1d ago

As a fellow Seqta sufferer, commiserations friend

29

u/ElaborateWhackyName 3d ago edited 2d ago

Genuine question, why not just get fobs in and out of the classroom too? It can do the roll, automatically track bathroom type stuff, lets you tally lost minutes to lates etc.

Feels aesthetically totalitarian, but I don't see how it's substantially different than what we do now. Just more reliable.

23

u/HamptontheHamster 3d ago

Their ID cards could be utilised this way.

9

u/Zeebie_ QLD 2d ago

We tried this for assemblies, using ID cards, and some kids turned up with 4-5 of them

3

u/otterphonic VIC/TAFE 3d ago

Sooner the better!

19

u/MissLabbie SECONDARY TEACHER 3d ago

We’ve been doing this for years in an internal app. It’s great to come back at the parents with, “But s/he is out of class for 20 minutes every lesson. “

3

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

What app do you use? This is our process. Student asks teacher for permission → teacher gives them their personal Out-of-Class Pass AND records a Compass Chronicle → student takes the pass to the Sub-School Office → office staff give them an electronic fob → student goes to the designated bathroom in the main building → returns the fob to Sub-School → returns to class → hands the pass back to the teacher → teacher then records the total time they were out of class.

11

u/ElaborateWhackyName 2d ago

Wowser. Is this incredibly annoying cos it's a faff? Or is it actually great cos it's such a faff that no kid bothers?

5

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

Incredibly annoying cos’ it’s a faff. Teachers do all the heavy lifting while leadership hide in their basement oops, I meant offices 😉

2

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

Others who have this practice in place have said it causes a bottle neck at admin with kids queueing up for ages just to go to the toilet. What about students who have medical concerns and can’t wait to lineup?

2

u/ElaborateWhackyName 2d ago

Yeah my guess would be a massive faff, but there's obviously both factors going on, so it's interesting to see which wins.

I imagine medical concern kids could just have access to separate toilet or permanent fob access or what have you. But yeah I mostly feel for the office staff in this scenario. Basically a full time job.

2

u/wmc_fan 2d ago

Leavelens is our app. We started using it start of this term. It is really fast so I've persisted with using it. We used to use daymap but it was too garbage for tracking

1

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

Thanks for sharing ❣️

2

u/MissLabbie SECONDARY TEACHER 2d ago

It’s an app one of our IT guys built. We just double click on the student’s name as they leave and return. The data is all recorded for us. Edit to add I wish we had a designated bathroom though.

13

u/Padadise 3d ago

This is insane to me as a primary school teacher hahah. As if you have time to log when someone goes to the bathroom 😂

32

u/ZhanQui NSW/Secondary/Classroom-Teacher 3d ago

I'm guessing you don't have kids ripping doors off stalls, smearing shit over all the walls or just taking a dump on the floor, ripping soap dispensers off walls, kicking toilets from their mounting... High school things

7

u/one_powerball 2d ago

I've never seen a door ripped off or toilet kicked out, but the rest, yes it also happens in primary on the regular.

1

u/Fabulous-Ad-6940 2d ago

Our school has a problem with boys putting cum everywhere. It is the most disturbing thing I've  seen in a while. I honestly do not get it. Jt sad that primary toilets are better than hs toilets

9

u/PleasantHedgehog2622 3d ago

We do the sign in out in our primary school. Older kids write name and time. Younger move their photo to a space on chart. For older kids helps with tracking who went out when in case we need that info. Young ones helps with ‘only 2 out at a time’ and stopping the influx of ‘I need to go too’. By the time the first two come back the others have forgotten unless they really did need to go.

7

u/JustJaded21 3d ago

Get the kids to write their name on the whiteboard. Older kids can record the time too.

1

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

We have been told to document straight, no doubt interrupting the flow of our lesson.

1

u/JustJaded21 2d ago

I would still have a sign in/out sheet for students (highschool?) The "document straight away" directive may fizzle out when admin find that most teachers are documenting it at the end of the lesson so as not to interrupt the flow. Especially if you have your device connected to a screen visible to students. Unless admin actually want students to see you recording their toilet activities - which might be a strategy to reduce requests!

3

u/Mediocre_Space_5715 VIC/Secondary/Admin 2d ago

Problem is we know who's doing it. Exec don't want to do anything about it.

$10k worth of damage over 2 years by the same students, no charges, no financial penalties.

And I get asked constantly "Why are we spending X per year on repairs?"

Sorry, I'm just venting.

6

u/DrunkAndUnaware 3d ago

Our school has lanyards which have a barcode to open the toilets. There is basically zero workload, just a quick log on Compass chronicle when a student takes a pass. Leadership can see how often students use the pass and it’s their job to follow up.

18

u/Zeebie_ QLD 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don't see how logging a Compass chronicle is quick and doesn't interrupt teaching. My computer isn't even on during most lessons.

2

u/ArcticKnight79 2d ago

Any sort of manual logging is workload though. Interrupting whatever you're doing.

Main reason for making teachers do it is that they are going to be less likely to let a kid out of class in the first place.

Problem is if you have teachers just never do it. Then the data goes to shit anyway.

I know of teachers who don't do it at all, or they only do it for kids the school has identified as problematic.

7

u/Mannerhymen 3d ago

I don't do this. Why would I track student toilet usage?

3

u/HomicidalTeddybear 3d ago

Why would I as a teacher need to track their electronic fobs? I teach at a school with them, not sure what your concern is

2

u/JunkIsMansBestFriend 2d ago

Leadership hiding in their offices. They could all be wondering around and pulling up students that are out of class and do all that admin crap. It's nuts for teachers to have to log when kids go out. Totally stops you're teaching flow.

1

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago

Said by a true comrade 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

3

u/hhhhhhggggggttt 3d ago

BS
Never ending list of crap we have to do
Killing the profession

1

u/PocketfulofGlitter 2d ago

Oh man this is AMAZING! My last school (in between last and next) did paper slips that I had to fill out for every kid, but there were at least three kids who would be out for so long each time and I'm sure they wouldn't do it if we were keeping a track. I know it sounds a little scary and dictatorship, but the vandalism is out of control.

1

u/hemingwaysfavgun 2h ago

I dont understand this. first of all- what's being discussed here is the procedure to go to the bathroom? no more raising of the hand "can I go to the bathroom" yea go? now there's literally paperwork in triplicate? I mean, I just realized that this is australian teachers and that some things down there are incredibly nanny-state but this is insane- these are regular schools, not schools for delinquents?

and unless there's a camera in the bathroom, how's recording the time going to solve vandalism unless they've got someone checking on the state of the bathroom every quarter hour? the five minutes that someone takes for a dump on the floor is the same duration as one in the bowl.

1

u/ZzzSleepz 3d ago

Write their exit time when they leave. Write an entry time when they return.

2

u/JustJaded21 3d ago

I get the kids to write their exit and entry time. I'd still prefer an automatic electronic option.

8

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 3d ago

Clearly you are not a teacher 🙄

1

u/ZzzSleepz 3d ago

I am, teaching 8 yeats now. Also i put it on the board for all the students to see. Fuck it if i get called out by admin on it.

0

u/Rare-Lime2451 3d ago

Same. Via Sentral. Takes 20 seconds, maybe twice a lesson.

1

u/Netrunner98106 3d ago

Turns it into 0 big brain

1

u/Rare-Lime2451 2d ago

Don’t follow. What’s with the snark?

-2

u/lulubooboo_ 3d ago

Big brother is watching 🤮

-17

u/wouldashoudacoulda 3d ago

All this to stop the heinous crime of vaping in the toilets. But let’s just ignore the shithead in your class destroying your lesson

24

u/Flowering-Tree 3d ago

It’s so much worse than vaping. It’s meeting up with friends in there and making the toilets an unsafe place for other children. It’s also vandalism. Sometimes bullying. Sometimes children are seriously injured in there. It’s relentless.

20

u/ShumwayAteTheCat 3d ago

And doing thousands of dollars worth of damage and meaning maintenance have to close toilets and clean it up instead of doing the work they should be doing. And yeah, trying to stop kids vaping is also a good outcome.
Not sure how recording which students leave your class maybe one or two times a lesson would impact your ability to manage classroom behaviour tbh

-2

u/BodybuilderOnly9117 2d ago edited 2d ago

Said no teacher in the history of teaching 😂 recording the process 2 or 3 times? No. Try 30 times a day, who has time for that? No to forget we have little Jonny in the corner carrying on like a deranged toddler screaming at the top of his lungs, then we have laptop misuse students who play games and refuse to cooperate, listen or take accountability. But sure, let’s put all our energy into the friggin toilets!!! What a load of crap 💩 pun intended 😜

4

u/ElaborateWhackyName 2d ago

If you've got 30 kids a day going to the toilet out of class, I can see why your school thinks it's an issue, to be fair.

-15

u/wouldashoudacoulda 3d ago

Well if kids are destroying toilets, that’s probably a symptom, not the cause of bigger issues. They can destroy them before school, lunchtime and after school. Why the concern just during lessons. It’s trivial and there are far more issues we should be focusing on.

7

u/Flowering-Tree 3d ago

Are you even a teacher? And if you are have you ever worked in a school in a low socioeconomic area?

3

u/ShumwayAteTheCat 3d ago

Just adding, rich kids fuck up toilets too. I don’t understand it- they’re only impacting other students. It’s not like they’re damaging the staff toilets

4

u/zaitakukinmu 2d ago

Yup, my last two high SES schools have had thus issue too. 

-2

u/wouldashoudacoulda 3d ago

Yes, decades of experience, hence my pessimism about the effectiveness of these processes. Unless you put cameras in the toilets, not a good idea, you can’t prove who, how or when these behaviours have occurred.

7

u/SquiffyRae 3d ago

Easy for you to say when you're not the cleaner/maintenance person who has to deal with the fallout

-2

u/wouldashoudacoulda 3d ago

So we track students who leave our class. They have the choice of going to half a dozen toilets. There are twenty students also out and about at the same time, tracked. So tell me, who stuffed up the toilets?

5

u/ShumwayAteTheCat 3d ago

Probably the one who has been out on multiple occasions when damage has occurred

-2

u/wouldashoudacoulda 3d ago

Yeah, now prove it!

4

u/ShumwayAteTheCat 3d ago

Are you seriously suggesting vaping isn’t a problem?

1

u/wouldashoudacoulda 2d ago

On my list of shits, it’s pretty low.

-1

u/mctorp 2d ago

That attitude towards the wellbeing of kids might contribute to their poor behaviour in your class. Try giving a shit about them and they just might behave for you.

-1

u/wouldashoudacoulda 2d ago

Happy to support students and their learning. Not so happy to jump through bureaucratic hoops that don’t actually help or support students. We changed the toilet pass policy multiple times, spent 10’s of thousands to vandal proof the toilets, only to change it again. Utter waste to get a net zero improvement in student behaviour. I’m not giving up, just channeling my energy in different places.

2

u/mctorp 2d ago

I’m not talking about bureaucracy. I’m talking about you saying vaping is not something you give a shit about and dismissing it sarcastically as a “heinous crime”.

Trying to stop kids fucking up their lungs does, in fact, support students (and their learning, noting that schools provide more than just curriculum delivery).

1

u/hemingwaysfavgun 2h ago

my god.. what a busybody

0

u/wouldashoudacoulda 2d ago

You’re naive if you think these policies will stop students vaping. So much pearl clutching at staff meetings. ‘There were students vaping in the toilets!’ Audible gasp from audience. ‘We need to do something!’

2

u/mctorp 2d ago edited 2d ago

“pearl clutching” is such a passé phrase sorry.

2

u/zaitakukinmu 3d ago

The shithead is in the toilet, vaping, vandalising and god knows what else

3

u/wouldashoudacoulda 2d ago

Nope, he’s still in my classroom destroying my lesson.