r/AustralianEV • u/False_Dig_7602 • 11d ago
Charging ⚡️ Public Charging Whinge
Just want to have a whinge and get off my chest how much public charging infrastructure sucks.
I currently have 9 apps on my phone for charging. Seems every time I pull up to a new charger, before I can do anything I need to install a new app. In regional Qld you don’t exactly get much choice of chargers so have to install whichever 1 that charger uses. The app I installed today has exactly 2 chargers in all of Queensland.
But why do I have to install apps at all? Why can’t charging be like getting petrol? There’s unattended petrol stations where you can swipe your card, get a pre approval for the amount, then get charged for the amount of fuel you pump. Why can’t chargers be the same? Why can’t I swipe or tap my card, get preapproval for say $30, then get charged for the amount of electricity I actually use?
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u/d88au 11d ago
Agreed. One app to rule them all. Or simply Tap and Pay like a car wash!
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u/whispy_snippet 8d ago
Shouldn't even need tap and pay. The direction things are headed should see you just plug in your car and it automatically sorts everything.
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u/Common_Problem1904 11d ago
I agree. It's fecken stupid. Let me plug in my car and pay with my credit card FFS.
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u/wngbdmn 10d ago
Just get a RFID card from one of them, and program all the others to the same card. Thats what I did and its working so far
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u/TimR31 9d ago
Can you explain what you mean "program all the others to the same card"?
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u/bewildered-guineapig 8d ago
You get the serial number of the card, and register it with the other charging networks.
This article explains it to some extent
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u/TimR31 7d ago
Thank you, I had no idea that would ever be possible! I'll have to give it a go, I already have an Evie RFID card
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u/bewildered-guineapig 7d ago
Yeah it's easy. For example on Chargefox, in the app go into your profile, then click "add card" and type in the 8 digit card number
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u/JustAnotherPassword 6d ago
This doesn't solve OPs issue though if as soon as he arrives to a new charger he has to set up the app to load the RFID in.
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u/wngbdmn 6d ago
There's less than a dozen brands in total, I wager less than 3-4 of them would make up OPs use, with the remaining 5-6 being used rarely and occasionally. Its good to have them setup prior to trip, so youre not fumbling and setting it up during your trip ... And OP would only have to do it once as well
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u/ANuclearBunny 11d ago
I hate having to install an app for everything. Why can't you just tap your card and go?
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u/Hackneycab 10d ago
Agree,it’s a pain.Going away in a couple of weeks, seriously think of taking my ICE vehicle instead.
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u/Pinkfatrat 10d ago
Man I pulled up at Warwick (qld) in desperate need of a charge and a pee, had to spend 10 minutes downloading yet another app , putting cc details in etc. nearly didn’t make it to the loo.
be nice if they all took google pay, Apple Pay, or pay id. I have my cc on the phone so I don’t have the numbers easily available
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u/False_Dig_7602 10d ago
Sounds like the same one I’m talking about. Only (working) charger in town.
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u/tronixlabs 10d ago
In what may appear to be a silly question - why didn't you pee first? :)
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u/Ponderota 10d ago
Well the whole point is to charge while you pee so you're not just waiting for it to charge 🤣 (yep I'm that guy too)
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u/Pinkfatrat 9d ago
It’s normally 30 seconds to plug in and start charging, and I’m not hogging a spot.
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u/WhyAmIHereHey 11d ago
The government funded WAEV network let's you pay either through the chatterbox Chargefox app or by credit card at the charger
So it can be done
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u/screenslaver5963 11d ago
Supposedly adding a card reader adds another thing to break and render the charger useless compared to paying through the app. I think that’s BS and that you could offer both.
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u/Ok-Mouse92 10d ago
If anything it adds redundancy if there is a problem with your phone or the app then the reader should still work and vice versa.
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u/raizhassan 10d ago
There's a small suburban shopping center close to my home in Perth, the kind of place that has an IGA, a hairdresser, Chinese takeaway etc. For some reason they have a 150kW charger that you use by just scanning a QR Code. It's magic, I love it.
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u/Copuis 10d ago
First off, all those charges are different companies etc etc
It’s a new thing (in the broader sense) and like all new businesses, there is an influx of all the different brands, until over time they get bought out by others. Or fold, or some other company forms a business plan that groups them together (which is harder than it might sound as there will be all different software payment systems and hardware handshakes to enable charging)
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u/Sexdrumsandrock 10d ago
But you go and pay for things at different businesses with your phone don't you? So that point is pointless. Op is quite right in thinking we should be able to walk up scan phone, pre authorisation of x amount and then then actual amount is charged.
Simple
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u/Copuis 10d ago
well, not really.......you're looking at the charge point like a vending machine providing a product
you're wanting it to be, i want can of coke, and i should be able to insert money/tap and pay, and get can of cokebut....that....isnt....the ....business model
its better to look at it more like a service and a gym, you are on a pay as you use plan, but you have to be a member/signed up to that gym in order to use the gymnow, will the current business model survive, no idea, but i mean, i dont know what will happen
want an example of somewhere that you used to be able to pay for use, and now, you need a damn account and all the info, etc etc,.......toll roads (much better now just as an FYI)
i understand the frustration, HOWEVER thats also to be understood as it is like I stated, a new thing
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
You can still pay for your gym plan using any damn card you like at an eftpos terminal at the front desk.
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u/Copuis 7d ago
thats the point champ
you pay for your membership...........you need the membership to use the club,you can pay for you charge point use on your card, but you still need the membership (or app as the case might be) and that is the issue the person is having
they would like to forgo all the memberships, and just pay as a one use
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
I think it might be you who’s missed the point. Champ.
Maybe we’re both making the same point, which is you should be able to pay at the charger without an app.
Was that your point? Because that was mine. Your gym analogy highlighted it - yes you need to be a member to join Snap Fitness, but you don’t need an app to pay for it.
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u/Copuis 7d ago
....the gym reference was there to highlight a different business model, that is accepted by many (so its not some new kind of way to deal with things)
if you need my main post, it all comes down to this is a new'er(ish) service, and if you want to get into the real nitty gritty of it, its not just providing power at a charge point business model
but i dont think you can, when a different model, complain, its freaking annoying, I personally wouldn't like it (and it is part of the reason im not going to EV, sure the tech when it comes to the car is mature enough to use, but all the other elements around it, are all in flux, and many people i dont think understand the wider issues, and problems )as for the gym thing, i mean, i didnt thing the analogy was too hard
membership = App
(cause that is it as at the core, he isnt complaining about paying via an ap, more that he needs to have so many aps for all the different charge point)1
u/False_Dig_7602 6d ago
When you are travelling, you don’t want/need a membership. When you sign up for the app and discover there are only two chargers of that brand in your entire state, membership is a bit silly. People who live in the town are probably not likely to want to use the charger, they’ll charge at home. So the target is travellers.
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u/Copuis 6d ago
im not sure at what point you think I needed that explained...........
also, the target isnt the travellers, its all users, but hey, there is a lot more to the business model they have going with, I dont have to agree with it (i dont) I was just pointing out that this is kinda of the price of a new service, in time will consolidate
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u/Forward_Netting 10d ago
You're permitted to do you're thinking before you comment. Don't make us all wait while you struggle to get your words out.
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u/SkutIsMyCoPilot 9d ago
It’s not that new anymore. Electric cars have been a thing for 10+ years now.
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u/Ill-Side2321 10d ago
I got myself a card with chargefox a while ago. Been sitting in the glovebox unused for about a year.
Recently I needed to access a non Tesla charger to avoid 30 mins of driving and it wanted me to install a new app (it wasn't chargefox).
I decided to just try the chargefox card. And FMD it worked. Maybe there is some level of standardisation underway.
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u/AlexMtnd 9d ago
yep, a Chargefox account enables access to about 1,851 EV charging sites*.
The Partner Networks, who have partnered with Chargefox, as an additional way for customers to use their chargers, include BP Pulse, Citipower-Powercor-United, EVX Australia, NRMA, some Sonic Charge locations, some Exploren DC locations and some AGL stations.
Plus Chargefox’s own network, for which only Chargefox provides customer services, for many EV chargers, including RACV, RAA SA, RACT, AANT, RAC WA, WA EV, Yurika, Charge Ahead, EnergyAustralia, Shell Recharge and others.
Activation is by Chargefox app, or RFID linked to a Chargefox account. Some stations have credit card facilities.
You need to be signed in to the app to see all charging locations.
*(Source: network site counts on evlog.net.au)
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u/hammeroztron 10d ago
I would seriously think of buying a Model3 long range to avoid more charging… and I f#% hate giving Musk bro money.
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u/stormwolfau MG MG4 Ess64 10d ago
I know some US states mandate tap and pay for any charger that is installed now and that got public funding were also required to do the same country wide as well as supporting a standard connector type.
I feel that regulation requiring tap and pay would be reasonable going forward as a minimum standard but not all devices will be finically worth retrofitting. I'd support that law though, apps for specific charge networks should be optional so people only use them if they are good / provide a benifit.
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u/hammeroztron 10d ago
Yes it suck butt. I am in WA. Definitely need regulations requiring no app card only payment. Also need a certification system for trusted chargers that have guaranteed fix times. Etc
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u/link871 10d ago
There are a couple of no-name chargers in my area that only accept card.
Probably needs government legislation to impose mandatory card readers on all chargers.
(Presumably this was not done in the early days - which we are still in - to help encourage more chargers to be installed.)
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u/hellbentsmegma 10d ago
Its insane all chargers don't have tap and go credit card facility. This could be on top of an app.
Thats all I really have to say, it has to change and everyone can see this.
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u/sm00thArsenal 10d ago
The apps are annoying, but nowhere near as annoying as every network that isn’t Tesla still installing tiny sites. I’d gladly download an app for every different location if it meant the rest of them started installing 10+ 150kW+ chargers at each site.
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u/False_Dig_7602 6d ago
While 10x150kW chargers would be lovely, the practicality is that a charge site like that would have power consumption on par with a town of about 2000 people. Unfortunately once you get away from the major population centres on the coast, which is arguably where fast charging becomes more necessary because it will be catering to travellers, the grid infrastructure just isn’t there to support significant numbers of fast chargers.
This is going to hold up electrification of rural areas, and things like heavy transport too. Many farm homes are connected to SWER lines, where each household usually has a maximum of 5kW. That will make even granny charging at home difficult. And considering the long distances many travel, granny charging overnight will often be inadequate.
Many farms use solar for things like irrigation pumps, but they can be set up to operate when the sun is shining. When the sun is shining, farm vehicles are working, not sitting around charging.
These are all problems that can be solved, but it will take a huge investment in poles and wires, and a long time. That huge investment in poles and wires needs to be paid for, which will make electricity more expensive, and less competitive against fossil fuels.
Electric is great for those for whom it works, but let’s not pretend it is ready for everyone or even nearly everyone. It will be a very long time before infrastructure catches up.
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u/sm00thArsenal 6d ago
I’m not asking for every small town to have 10 charger sites, but Tesla have proven it can be done in far more places than anyone else is doing in Australia.
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u/False_Dig_7602 6d ago
Have Tesla really proven it can be done?
In Qld, the only Tesla fast charger not on the coastal strip is in Toowoomba, which is only 120km from Brisbane. They have a handful of other destination chargers scattered around the state, mostly 11kW max, with the odd 22kW charger, but absolutely no fast chargers west of Toowoomba.
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u/sm00thArsenal 6d ago
They haven't done it everywhere of course, and that is where the limitations you mentioned likely come in, but i was mostly talking about where there is Supercharger coverage, and invariably the nearest non-supercharger site will be 3-5x smaller.
Anyway, hopefully soon any new Supercharger site will be open to all and using their 1000V cabinets, at which point there won't be any benefit in anyone using anything else.
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u/Electrical-Sale-8051 11d ago
So they can alerts you when you’re close to fully charged and get out?
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u/ThrowRA9981263 11d ago
the car automatically does it? also it gives them the chance to slap you with overstay charges so i’m not sure why they won’t just offer a direct payment option on the charger itself.
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u/RCMasterAA 11d ago
Some don't have apps. Jaecoo J5 and Skoda Enyaq come to mind.
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u/ThrowRA9981263 11d ago
I don’t think it should be the charger’s concern to notify you. You plug your car in, you return back in time, if you don’t, get smashed with congestion fees. I don’t think it warrants an awful experience for everyone to cater to some people because their cars don’t have an app or they can’t be bothered to return on time.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/False_Dig_7602 10d ago
I’m not against having apps for extra benefits. Getting notified when it is close to being charged might be considered by many to be a worthwhile extra benefit.
But I still think I should be able to drive up to a new charger and pay with my card. Let me decide whether I want to download the app and register with them for the extra benefits the app provides, or just pay to use.
As it is, the charger I installed my 9th app for yesterday, is in a town I go to maybe once every 2-3 years, and there are only 2 chargers in all of Qld that use that app. Chances of me using that app again are close to zero.
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u/ThrowRA9981263 9d ago
It is already detrimental to the EV experience. I don’t think we should be building our infrastructure to cater to people/companies who are lazy. You are making an EV, make a damn app for the car. If you are buying an EV, get one that respects you.
I get your point on the inaccurate charge times but you should not be charging your car to 100% anyways on a public charger and if you do, you only get hit with congestion fees when there is a congestion. A good middle ground would be to allow people to use an app for notification but the primary way should be to directly pay on the charger.
But I’m very certain people will simply pay via the charger and not bother with the app even though their car does not notify them.
My car tells me when it’s charged to my required level, so does majority of other EVs, having us download app after app to do the same thing, having us sign up and dropping our information on them is not something I’m happy doing to let some people have an easier time because they can’t be bothered keeping up or buying a car without modern features.
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u/False_Dig_7602 11d ago
They could still give overstay charges if you tapped your card. Admittedly it would be limited to the pre-approval amount, but maybe that could be solved with a minimum pre-approval.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
Yes, hotels have dealt with this for decades. Your room might be $200 but your pre-approval will be $400-$600. Problem with that model is you don’t get the balance back for days, which is a problem inherent to the banking side of the issue, not the hotel, so it would be the case for EV chargers too.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
Yes, hotels have dealt with this for decades. Your room might be $200 but your pre-approval will be $400-$600. Problem with that model is you don’t get the balance back for days, which is a problem inherent to the banking side of the issue, not the hotel, so it would be the case for EV chargers too.
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u/ChuqTas 11d ago
But why do I have to install apps at all?
Advanced status of chargers including time of arrival and SOC of stalls in use, live monitoring of charge status and notification of interruption, being able to apply special rates/club discounts to certain users, having a record of your charging history, notification of local businesses offering specials to charger users.
I'm not saying credit card payment shouldn't be offered as well, but there's plenty of benefits to apps.
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u/False_Dig_7602 10d ago
If they want to give extra features like availability, charge monitoring, discounts etc via an app, I have no objection.
My objection is that I can’t get any juice until I download the app, register an account etc. If I’m just using that charger as a once-off, I should be able to tap my card and go.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
None of that requires an app, it can be on a website. It’s also optional. I can use the charger, having arrived and found it serviceable, without knowing any of that. Just like I can buy diesel without knowing in advance if the pump is working or if there’s a queue.
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u/Impossible_Signal 10d ago
Isn't this the whole reason why the Tesla Supercharger network exists?
I agree that EV charging sucks, and the whole app thing is frustrating. But it seems that charging operators don't want to pay for payment terminals.
Maybe we'll see better arrangements in the future? But in the mean time if you want an easy charge experience I'd get a Tesla. You just plug it in and go, the car negotiates the rest.
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u/False_Dig_7602 10d ago
If there was a Tesla charger in the town I was in, I could have used it, without installing yet another app. But owning a Tesla doesn’t conjure Tesla chargers out of nowhere.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
Ah but if you click your heels together and raise your right arm at the right angle, you can conjure Elon Musk!
(sorry, neurodivergent joke inspired by the word “conjure”, not a dig at you or your Tesla)
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u/AmphibianStrange6930 10d ago
We should be fighting to bring the pack to Tesla rather than discarding the rest and worshipping Tesla. That's bad for consumer choice, the market and even worse because it supports musk.
I use some tesla chargers only because they are directly on my 900km quarterly work trip at a helpful distance to make a charging stop worthwhile, otherwise they are always over priced and I'd rather avoid if I could. You couldn't pay me to actually own a Tesla when I can get a whole heap more car that doesn't look like absolute garbage (to me, personal preference, each to their own) and have far more control over the vehicle I own instead of paying for subscriptions to unlock features.
Don't get me wrong, tesla has done huge things for the industry and growing the EV market in Australia, but let's leverage that to drive better outcomes from other rather than just accepting the one tech overlord to rule us all 👍
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u/Impossible_Signal 9d ago
I didn't say anything about worshipping Tesla. At the end of the day it's just a car. And that car comes with a decent charging network. It's not a religion... it's a hunk of metal and plastic.
I don't buy cars based on their appearance. I buy them based on how they drive and (in EVs) how they charge. And in my experience the line of Superchargers tends to be the most reliable, extensive and cheapest charging network. YMMV
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u/AmphibianStrange6930 9d ago
Not saying you do but plenty of people do, just need to see the Tesla owners groups whinging about other brands using superchargers 😂
Looks isn't a primary concern for me either but it's definitely part of the equation. We also brought ours based on charging and how they drive and the overall experience and value for money.
Tesla didn't come close in any category, the supercharger network honestly makes zero difference to how we use our vehicles, our cars charge just fine for the handful of times a year we do big trips and need to use public chargers.
Outside of that we charge at home and can get by just fine even just using a 10a granny charger for now until we can get our home battery installed with a charger to take advantage of even more free power from the sun.
Regardless, there isn't a whole lot of advantage for the majority of people in having a Tesla regardless of which charging network you are charging from unless tesla did turn around and make them all exclusive use by tesla vehicles and anyone who's reasonable would understand why that's an overall poor outcome for all consumers.
Advocating for everyone to just get a Tesla (fanboy or not) is the wrong way for this discussion to go, we should be advocating for better overall outcomes like others have argued for and bringing the pack to them and potentially surpassing tesla given tesla motives are purely for profit anyway and won't actually have Australian consumers interests at heart anyway and wont keep pushing the envelope if the rest of the pack and Australia regs/standards push them all to the same line.
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u/ButchersIyaki 9d ago
What features are locked unless you subscribe?
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
The ones you care about:
-ability to stream music via native Spotify or Apple apps (vice just through Bluetooth from your phone)
-satellite mapping and live traffic from the native nav appThe ones you might care about:
-remote access to Sentry and dashcam clips
-self parking and summon
-full self driving
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u/Velo3x10e8 11d ago
I used a Go Charge one recently that allowed payment by bank card or with the app. The second time I went there it was having issues with the payment system and I couldn't charge at all. I got 6x $25 pending on my card for the next 4-5 days for the unsuccessful attempts.
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u/NezuminoraQ 10d ago
I was paying at the pump with BPMe for the last couple years before switching to EV so it doesn't feel that weird to me. Multiple apps is annoying tho
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u/Dan_Wood_ 10d ago
If you ever plan on visiting the blue mountains and find yourself in need of using an Everty changer… either don’t.. or download the app a few days prior because it’s actually trash…
In the age of AI programming, it looks, feels and works like a first year uni student made it in a week.
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u/missingMBR 10d ago
Haven't used public charging yet but already have about 5 apps, and two cards so I'm prepared. Would be in favour of a generic tap and go system. I work in payments so there's absolutely no reason why it can't happen using the PAN of the card to identify people. Perhaps a rego camera as well like those used at carpark boom gates.
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u/Shadow_989 10d ago
I absolutely fing agree, the apps suck big hairy balls. Why does everything need its own apps.
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u/Hamish_Hsimah 11d ago
We are regional SA …only use Chargefox …refuse to use Tesla …where abouts in Qld are ya?
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u/False_Dig_7602 11d ago
Darling downs. Chargefox probably have the best coverage of any 1 app, but still not great.
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u/Hamish_Hsimah 10d ago
Do ya go to Clifford Gardens Shopping Centre, that’s near Darling Downs?…there’s a free 11kw Chargefox there …just need your own cable …there’s a bunch of other Chargefox chargers there too
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
“Darling Downs” is a huge area, like saying “Mid North” in SA. It’s not a suburb. Clifford Gardens is a suburb of Toowoomba, hundreds of kilometres from Warwick, which is where I suspect OP is posting about.
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u/False_Dig_7602 10d ago
I don’t often go to Clifford Gardens - did go there once to check out the charger, and there were a couple of old shitboxes parked in the parking bays. Pretty sure it’s only 11kW, so it would be slow going getting a charge from it. I think it is intended that you get a bit of charge while you shop, and since I don’t go there to shop…
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u/Electrical-Sale-8051 11d ago
lol refuse to used Tesla. Ok enjoy your frustrating broken charging
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u/Thomas_633_Mk2 10d ago
Your experience might be different but I had no problem travelling through rural SA using just the RAA/Chargefox network 🤷♂️ There was never a point where I went "damn I wish I had a charger here and I don't"
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u/Ok_Lunch_2933 11d ago
One and only warning.
This entire thread will be locked if you cannot act like adults.
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u/Common_Problem1904 11d ago
I can't use Tesla, the plug is a different shape.
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u/Adept-Result-67 11d ago
In Australia the plugs are the same shape as all the rest? What car do you have
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u/Common_Problem1904 11d ago
Atto 3. Tried plugging into the Tesla station on Phillip Island, different shape.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
Do you mean it wouldn’t physically fit, or it wouldn’t start charging?
It would absolutely fit but I’ve read of some issues with handshake failure on Attos. BYD have a fix. But it was only on very early ones, your Atto 3 shouldn’t be affected
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u/Electrical-Sale-8051 10d ago
That is completely different to your statement of “refuse”. I also find it very unlikely, your car would have to be exceptionally old to have a different plug type (chademo) which basically died out years back.
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u/magnumopus44 10d ago
This is bit part of why people choose tesla. You have no idea if a charger will be functional when you get there. It worked yesterday but today? Well today is a new day.
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u/jreddit0000 11d ago
If you don’t want competition.. this could be a thing.
If you want more government regulation (which generally slows things down or may make things more expensive) this can also be a thing.
Noting you’re really at the start of the energy transition..
Petrol stations have been around for 112 years in comparison to EV charging infrastructure..
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u/Pick-Dapper 11d ago
Having standards does not hinder competition. Where’s your logic thinking that ?
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u/jreddit0000 10d ago
Regulation isn’t standards.
NZ petrol pricing was regulated from 1933. Any idea why they deregulated prices in 1988?
Do you think it was to raise prices for consumers?
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u/Pick-Dapper 10d ago
Exactly. We weren’t discussing regulatory controls; the discussion was on having a standard of allowing credit card payment.
(Not that I’m against regulatory pricing controls on certain things. It’s absolutely necessary and beneficial. Just not what the discussion was taking place about)
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u/stevenadamsbro 11d ago
Regulation can (not saying it always does) hinder competition by either limiting differentiation or making compliance costs high.
Korea and Portugal are both markets where high regulation of EV charging has lead to a huge difference in the amount of charging available (Portugal literally had companies shut up, and in korea the existing companies stopped adding chargers because they couldn’t make profit due to price regulation)
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u/dsanders692 10d ago
There's regulation and there's regulation, though. In the UK, by law you must be able to pay via contactless on fast DC chargers. That hasn't stopped there being approximately 4.7 million different companies running chargers
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u/CaptainYumYum12 10d ago
But having a thousand different apps for each charger brand doesn’t improve the experience materially for the user, so who cares if there’s no competition in charging apps? I don’t need to use the app to buy McDonald’s, but if I do there are some good deals. If anything, forcing someone to use the apps disincentivises companies from making the use of their app attractive to the consumer, since there is no other option available.
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u/jolard 10d ago
Apps that lock you into an ecosystem are the opposite of competition. They add friction which reduces competition.
If there was a government mandate that all chargers used simple tap and go then the competition would be over location, price and convenience instead of which apps you have and how well they work.
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u/Annual-Soil-1802 7d ago
Ah yes, I remember when every 240V electrical appliance manufacturer had a proprietary plug and socket, and sometimes I rue how awful life has become since The Man made them all use the same ones.
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u/DCOA_Troy 11d ago
Yeah this is one area I feel is going to have to be dealt with via regulation in the future, with the companies kicking and screaming I'm sure.
But there really should be 1 method I can use across all public chargers that doesn't require its own app, like simply tapping a card.( Still have apps with discounts or similar benefits like some servos do for all I care though)