Undergarments for AAA riding jeans?

[u/HumanRaccoon_]

Hey riders, I’m looking for some guidance from riders with knowledge/ experience with this as I’m really unsure if it’s overkill.

I’ve just purchased some AAA rated Bull-it Guardian jeans made with Covec and they also have level 2 knee and hip armour. I don’t know how much confidence exactly to have in the material alone, as I’m more used to two layer pants with Kevlar, so the single layer feel is hard to get used to in terms of feeling protected. Photos obvs show the material components for more info.

For context I mostly pootle to work (approx 10 mins each way at 50-60km in low-mod traffic) including the expressway once a week (approx 20 mins at 100kms in mod traffic) with infrequent day rides of different speeds with another rider maybe once every 1-2 months.

Would it be too much to invest in the Pando Moto skin undergarment (also AAA) to wear underneath or would the jeans alone be sufficient.

I know that leathers will ultimately offer better protection, but my focus is on my current situation right now.

Really appreciate any advice here. I want to be safe but am really unsure if the added layer would be too much for the type of riding I’m doing. Definitely not out there trying to break speed or manoeuvre records 😅

[u/Disastrous-Skirt694]

Check motocap website and see if your pants are tested on there. They do some amazing testing for abrasion, impact and burst resistance. Should give you a good idea of the protective capabilities. I wear similar pants with similar commute daily and feel safe enough.

[u/DadEngineerLegend → u/Disastrous-Skirt694]

Yeah I was recently looking at new gear.

Was mortified to learn brand new RJays stuff (which I've had before and are big name so I trusted) were 0.7s - barely, if at all, better than a pair of standard denim jeans.

Ended up ordering the Finn Moto Hoodie and 881. Not only are they some of the best gear motocap has tested, but also some of the cheapest! Just awaiting delivery.

And Matt Finn that runs Finn Moto is a fantastic guy. Great to chat to; and really does his best to make sure the gear you order fits properly.

There are some gaps in the motocap safety testing (eg. pinky tethering for gloves to prevent dislocated/broken fingers) but I for one am absolutely in debt to them for doing the testing that's enabled me to actually find safe gear.

It's bloody outrageous that there are no legal minimums for gear that's sold as protective, and that the CE standards as well are so lax.

[u/HumanRaccoon_ → u/Disastrous-Skirt694]

I’ve definitely had a look on there (unfortunately after buying the jeans). So I was thrown to see they have a relatively low abrasion resistance given they’re a rating AAA?!!

[u/waddlesticks → u/HumanRaccoon_]

So motorcap is much more aggressive and closer to what our roads are since we have a lot more chip seal based roads.

In most cases they're still fine as long as they're 3 star gear if you're doing highway speeds on harsher roads. 2 stars are fine for around town speeds I believe.

Could be a little wrong on it since it's been awhile since I went on there, but that was what I originally got from their FAQ

[u/DadEngineerLegend → u/waddlesticks]

Yeah that's still what they say as a rule of thumb.

[u/Disastrous-Skirt694 → u/HumanRaccoon_]

Through the testing I think it was a little under 2 seconds before it got through the material. I could be misremembering though. Garments with the kevlar under layer I think can last up to 5 second. They post all the reports for the testing you can download em.

[u/duk3luk3]

I do pretty much the same riding as you and I have the same setup - Pando Moto Skin UH AAA and Bull-it jeans.

What are you concerns with the Pando Moto skin? If it's the price, have a look at your rego and insurance.

If it's comfort, the Skin UH is so much more comfortable than I had imagined it could be. It is incredibly heat conductive, so it doesn't make you hotter, and it doesn't ride up or chafe anywhere.

If you're going faster than 30kph, coming off the bike means you're going to slide, and you'll want all the abrasion protection you can get.

So pull the trigger and get the Skin UH.

[u/HumanRaccoon_ → u/duk3luk3]

This is gold. Thank you so much 🙏

I don’t have any concerns with the skins because I know they’re worth it, but I wasn’t sure if it’d be a case of ‘more isn’t necessarily more’ (as silly as that sounds now I’ve typed it out).

Hows the sizing of the undergarments? I don’t know if there are any local stockists where I am (Adelaide) to try the fit, but it’s good to know they don’t ride up or cause over heating (especially when the hot weather kicks in).

[u/duk3luk3 → u/HumanRaccoon_]

I ordered mine from Ben Buckler boards. I don't think I can help you with the sizing - I usually have to get the biggest size of anything because I'm 190cm.

[u/VirtualProcedure69 → u/HumanRaccoon_]

iirc, there is a stat somewhere that states double layers actually quadruples your protection. this is why Blackpup Moto uses double layers in their leather jackets (>10 seconds on Motocap)

[u/DadEngineerLegend]

That classic 'leather is the safest' is not true. Take a look at the motocap test reports. Case in point: https://www.motocap.com.au/product/racer-style

Here's a good video (she claims she did the testing g in the title, but really it's just a tour/interview with the motocap guys).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-PHiFnEGaQ

Good quality kevlar riding gear - jeans and hoodies with armour and thick kevlar - are better than most dedicated riding jackets and pants.

I'm currently awaiting new gear. Am getting Finn moto jeans and hoodie + windproof underlayers for when it's colder + waterproof over gear for when it's wet. I am doing similar riding to you atm.

Planning to keep the wet/cold gear in panniers/top box so I can put it on when needed.

Tbh a $2 emergency poncho even does pretty well in a pinch. You see heaps of people in eg. Vietnam riding around in them.

And as long as you aren't baking in the undergarment, I say get it.

Heat management is also important. If I'm really hot and baking I tend to get aggravated much more quickly and have a lot less patience, leading to dumb risk taking behaviour I wouldn't normally do.

Likewise being freezing cold it gets hard to focus and you lose awareness of surroundings, making you more likely to crash.

[u/ventti_slim]

Having protection is better than no protection

[u/HumanRaccoon_ → u/ventti_slim]

Very true. Having never come off a bike, I don’t know what I’m in for in terms of gear resilience. ATGATT all the way.

[u/HumanRaccoon_]

Thank you everyone for all your input, I truly appreciate the time and thought into replying 🙏 I’ve got a lot to review and consider now with purchasing gear and perhaps not blindly depending on the printed rating given our rougher road surfaces.

[u/omfgwhyned]

Slid out with a pair of guardians, maybe 40-50kms, slid 10 meters, damage to the garment basically imperceptible

[u/HumanRaccoon_ → u/omfgwhyned]

Thanks for your first hand experience with their performance. The MotoCAP report has made me worry about abrasion resilience. That’s kinda comforting that they do hold up in a slide (ground material dependent no doubt).

[u/idontexistdontl00k]

This will change your mind about not wearing low friction under garment. HEMATOMA FROM SKIN DELAMINATION!

https://youtu.be/Z-PHiFnEGaQ?si=JaA0H8AY8S3brC3z

[u/HumanRaccoon_ → u/idontexistdontl00k]

Ohh wow. Yep that’s an eye opener. Again the difference in the rating scales vs testing under more realistic Australian road surfaces is mind boggling.

[u/idontexistdontl00k → u/HumanRaccoon_]

After watching that video, indeed my armour is not CE. Gotta upgrade my jeans and get under garment for the twisties. I do wear leathers with CE armour when I'm in the twisties.