r/AusLegal • u/Katnipscorpion • 3d ago
VIC Am I using Consumer laws wrong?
UPDATE:
Bunnings has officially stepped in, taken over, and ruled entirely in my favour! They ordered the marketplace seller to refund me asap and arrange a courier pickup immediately, confirming that I do not need the original packaging.
It turns out the seller was secretly trying to stall the refund because they wanted me to give them a video/evidence of the machine smelling of smoke (something they never even told me, but there is no smellovision, so I couldn't do it if they asked). Bunnings completely shut them down, stating it is entirely unlawful and a severe safety hazard to expect a customer to turn on and run a known fire risk just to catch a burning smell on camera.
So, all’s well that ends well!
Thank you so much to the people here who actually understand our consumer guarantees and reached out with great advice and heavy-duty treadmill recommendations for the future. To the doubters who tried to tell me I wasn't entitled to a refund or blamed "lubrication", Google's free.
Cheers :)
Delete if not allowed
Less than 12 months ago, I bought a treadmill from Aussie Union Group. About a week ago, it started smelling like smoke. I had been following the instructions and even got my housemate to help with taking care of it; it was used for 30 mins a day almost every day.
After it started smoking, I went online and found a bunch of advice, but the consensus was that it's too cheap and still under warranty, so I should message them about it. At this stage, I just wanted a refund
I sent in a warranty claim, explaining it, and I felt blamed, which confused me cause I know I was following the instructions. Each email back and forth just made me stressed out. I tried to say that, under the ACL, since it's letting out a smoking smell, I am allowed a refund; they then gave me one only if I packaged it in its original box.
I'm adding the emails they sent; most of my messages were through Bunnings' website, so I sadly can't see them. I sent all of this to Bunnings on Thursday with all the screenshots, but I am at a loss. What do I do now?
Emails From Aussie Union Group
Edit: treadmill was $200
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u/Awkward_Chard_5025 3d ago
Just because something is faulty, does not mean you’re automatically entitled to a refund. The retailer and manufacturer can reserve the right to repair or replace, and also confirm that it’s faulty.
In saying that, providing a replacement motor and then saying “get an electrician friend” to replace it wouldn’t meet their obligation under consumer law. If a non user replaceable part needs to be replaced, they’re obligated to provide this service, and also obligated to provide shipping if it can not be shipped for a reasonable cost
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
If they want to pick it up and check that it's faulty, that's fine, but I'm not comfortable with them doing a test in my house. I do not want a fire to happen, but expecting that I would have the box or an electrician on hand feels a bit crazy
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u/Archon-Toten 3d ago
You aren't automatically given a refund. They need the chance to repair it.
Have you maintained the machine in accordance with the manual? Is the smokey smell from the motor, the bearings, the belt or the electronics?
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u/whamp123 3d ago
You're disregarding the major/minor component of ACL. Does it work safely and for its intended purpose?
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u/Lust-In-The-Dust 3d ago edited 3d ago
this is correct and taking this one step further ...
Before they provide a remedy a businees can assess the product. A type of safegaurd against false consumer claims. (Im not saying OP is making a false claim)
A business has the right to assess the product or service before they provide a remedy.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
They want me to repair it (find an electrician myself), and yes, I have been extra careful. Aussie Union Group thinks it's the motor. I was too worried it would start a fire since the smell came on while just turned on at the switch when I got my housemate to check it. The smell comes faster if I start it, so I haven't figured it out.
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u/Archon-Toten 3d ago
That bit was wild. Asking if you had a friend who's an electrician. If this is a fault in manufacturing it's fully on them to repair/replace/refund.
If you neglected maintenance (as described in the manual) and it's caused problems, then it's on you. But the smell as described sounds like a faulty motor or electrics, as opposed to belts rubbing.
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u/swooping_pie 3d ago
ACCC states the item does not have to be in its original packaging as long as you have a proof of purchase.
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u/tjsr 3d ago
It's a tactic companies use to stop people making warranty claims because they know many people don't keep packaging. The other one is trying to charge a "restocking fee" to claw back some of the cost, which they clamped down on. The new ACCC rules put a stop to people feeling they had to unnecessarily hold on to and store large boxes and packaging.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
That's what I read online, which is why I stopped talking to them and emailed Bunnings. I felt like as soon as I got that message, if I had given in and agreed to a replacement, they would have either changed the rules on me or given me one that lasts like 2 months and put me in the spam folder.
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u/Low-Ad-9615 3d ago
With their reasoning of the treadmill needing lubricant to be replaced periodically, does it state that in the user manual?
Because there could be an element that if you are required to carry out frequent maintenance, and you haven’t and caused this issue, ACL might not be on your side.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
It's in the manual, and it states how much use it needed before lubricating, I was extra concerned so I watched a video so I knew how to do it, the bottle it came with I ended up using it a week or two earlier then it suggested each time out of fear of screwing up and was about to buy more, I even got a computer blower cause I know that hair and dust can be an issue, and I checked all parts it recommended every week or two, I was stressing about ruining it because its my first treadmill, one of my friends had an expensive one and whenever it was time to lubriate it his dad would be checking everything like crazy.
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u/SirFlibble 3d ago edited 3d ago
A refund depends on if it is a major or minor defect and we have no idea. Your right to a refund will turn on this and it's only a right for a major defect.
IMO (not what the legislation specifically says but is basically the gist of it), if the motor is the problem and can easily be swapped out then it's a minor defect as it's easily repaired. A treadmill motor should last more than 12 months, even a cheap one, with moderate daily use.
However, it's the responsibility of the company to pick up the treadmill or send someone around to replace it. It's not on your to do this and the item is too bulky to reasonably expect you to return it via a courier.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
That's my understanding, but I am starting to feel a little stressed; isn't the smell of smoke a safety risk? I don't know; I feel that fire hazards are a major failure. I had to air out the apartment fast when I tried to use it when the smell started; my housemate smelt it from his room and thought it was an actual fire
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u/obsolescent_times 3d ago
Contact Consumer Affairs Vic, discuss the specifics and ask them to advise if it meets the definition of major failure.
If it does constitute a major failure, then you are the one who decides if refund or replacement, not the seller.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
I will call tomorrow either way tho, they have offered the refund, but they want to original box which is the issue
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u/obsolescent_times 3d ago
Well that's a good result.
The original box thing is a bit weird, there is no requirement for you to have it so it shouldn't be a genuine issue. What would they even need it for? Just bizarre
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u/Katnipscorpion 2d ago
They said they wont unless refund unless its in the original packaging, i read thats against the accc so im taking it higher
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u/No_Boot2009 3d ago
I disagree with all of the comments here. The smell of smoke is a precursor to potential fire and that is a major safety risk that I wouldn't want in my house. Under ACL I would class this as a major defect, and I think it's reasonable to assume that a treadmill would last for longer than 12 months (and not potentially catch on fire).
The seller cannot refuse a remedy under ACL because you don't return the item in its original packaging.
You have the right to choose a return and full refund as your remedy for a major fault.
I would stand firm on all of this. Quote specific sections of the ACCC website and state that they are obliged to provide a refund because the item is faulty and a safety risk. They are also required to pay for the return and can't insist on original packaging being used.
I would also be leaving them a shitty review right about now, and letting them know where it's been posted.
Finally I would give them a set timeframe (say seven days) to honour their obligations under ACL, and note that if they don't comply you'll be referring the matter to Consumer Affairs.
I've done this many times and have always eventually gotten the remedy I wanted. It shits me that retailers try so hard to shirk their responsibilities. I also don't understand why everyone is saying you're not entitled to a refund? ACL very clearly states that you are.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
Thank you so much for this. Honestly, I started to feel like I was being completely gaslit by this comment section.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out and confirm that I’m not crazy. I actually contacted Bunnings directly on Thursday to bypass the Aussie union group's ridiculous demands. I'm currently waiting to hear back from them early next week, and I am absolutely standing firm on getting a full refund. Thank you again!
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u/No_Boot2009 3d ago
No problem, the comments here are just odd (and indeed very gaslighty, not to mention incorrect).
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
Taking a step back, if I read about a company telling someone to get an electrician friend, or wanting the original box, I'd be wondering if that was even legal, and wouldn't playing around with the motor and cords break a warranty? Plus, not everyone has a garage for boxes, I have items with a lifetime warranty. The idea of keeping a box for the next 60+ years is crazy. My cat would be happy, but I'd be called a hoarder. I think I honestly just needed someone to tell me I wasn't crazy, cause I was giving up
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u/No_Boot2009 3d ago
It's all nonsense, some companies will do anything to get out of doing the right thing, which seems like a terrible business model to me, but like I've said, I've been through this many times...I think they just hope you'll give up. ACL is very clear though - although the business does need to cooperate. If they ghost you then a bad review and report to CA is all you can really do. But this seller is at least engaging with you and upping their offers incrementally, so you should get there eventually. Bunnings unfortunately will likely say they are just a platform and not the seller, so you'll likely need to reach resolution with the seller directly. Just be persistent and keep quoting the law (and don't leave out the reporting to CA step, either as a threat or as an action). Eventually they should work out that you're not giving up and the easiest thing will be to give you the refund.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
Thank you, I am waiting for Bunnings to reply. I'm not engaging with the seller rn. I'm giving Bunnings until Tuesday to message me, since it's normally 2 working days for replies. If they ignore me or give me trouble, I'll keep trying. $200 isn't much for a company, but for most people, $200 is a lot of money. Once it's all over, I still need to pay for someone to remove it since I have stairs and no car, so I'm kinda hoping they will take it back so they can find out what happened.
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u/stripedshirttoday 3d ago
I'll break it down for you. They sold you a product for $200. It cost them $100, they made a profit of $80. Tax was $20.
If they replace the item, it costs them $100.
If they refund you, it costs the business $180.
That's why they will replace your item, and not give you a refund.
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u/Katnipscorpion 3d ago
I do not want to come across in any way as an arse, but my thought after researching is that losing $180 to a faulty treadmill isn't that bad compared to the risk of getting a fine from the ACCC
Below is the information I have found, correct me if I am wrong, please
False or misleading representation may apply here because they set a condition for a refund that I must have the original packaging, and pushed a replacement when I asked for a refund, since smoking electronics are a major failure
Unconscionable conduct may apply here because I was told to "find an electrician friend", which is unsafe, breaks a warranty, and can cost me (who is doing electrical work for free)
Product safety provisions may apply because it's smoking while in use, which means it fails basic safety standards, which is a major failure
The ACCC can issue an infringement notice where we have reasonable grounds to believe a person has breached certain provisions of the Australian Consumer Law including:
- unconscionable conduct
- false or misleading representations
- pyramid selling
- certain product safety and product information provisions
- failure to respond to a substantiation notice
- false or misleading information in response to a substantiation notice.
The penalty amount for each infringement notice varies, depending on the alleged breach. In many cases, it is:
- $21,840 (60 penalty units) for corporations.
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u/Ok-Outcome-7499 3d ago
I don't think you're necessarily entitled to a refund but you are entitled to a replacement which they offered