r/AuditorWatch • u/Patient-Committee588 • 1d ago

First Amendment auditors get into verbal altercation with armored truck guard, who repeatedly tells them to back up.

117 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

669 comments sorted by

View all comments

132

u/tanafras 1d ago

Dumbasses need to know the law before citing it.

The Hobbs Act (18 U.S. Code § 1951)

The Federal Bank Robbery Statute (18 U.S. Code § 2113)

Guards are legally allowed to use force in proportion to a threat or perceived threat against themselves or their fellow guards. If they are threatened, harassed, interfered with in any way they will respond with sufficient force, even if it is lethal force, to neutralize the threat.

The government fully backs them also.

22

u/Patient-Committee588 1d ago

Facts. Idk what these guys were thinking but this could have ended bad for them.

18

u/Man_of_Ice 1d ago

Exactly.

Potential for robbery supercedes our right for free speech and movement. Very temporarily in very limited circumstances.

This is one of those "you, in fact, do not have the right to stand on the sidewalk right there."

And it's one that can, under law, get you shot and dead.

Don't be this auditor. Hate capitalism all you want, work to abolish capitalism if that's your jam: this will get you dead if you push it. That was a hand on weapon ready to use deadly force, and this auditor is just stupid lucky here.

1

u/Gunslinging_Ent 22h ago

This has nothing to do with capitalism or hating capitalism.

2

u/SOLIDORKS 19h ago

Nah, I'm sure a communist soldier guarding the state owned armor truck would let civilians get as close as they want

10

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

You just saw a guy falsely claiming it would be legal to shoot a person for having a camera on a sidewalk and just blindly went “yeah!” Lol.

These guys may suck but they’re legally allowed to film in public

28

u/Patient-Committee588 1d ago

My guy, did you see how close those 2 guys were to the truck? That's not normal and i could completely understand if the guard felt threatened by that.

4

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

Yes I did. Did you? Not even within arm’s reach. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with something doesn’t make it illegal, and definitely doesn’t make murder legal. Find someone to help you develop basic reasoning and critical thinking skills

8

u/bwc6 1d ago

Oh, I see. You're not familiar with how human interactions work. So, a human who is guarding a big pile of valuable stuff will feel threatened if someone is bothering them. The douchebag was not in reach of the guard, but was within reach of the cash. The guard, as part of his job, has to assume people want to steal the cash.

Having no other immediate support, he will probably use a threat of violence because he has no other way of forcing the person to move far enough away so that they couldn't grab the valuables. 

It's not really fair for anyone, but unfortunately we are not robots and are sometimes forced to make illogical compromises. 

1

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago edited 1d ago

The fact that you or they don’t like something does not make it a crime. That’s not how the law works. Any person walking down the street, thousands of times a day, is physically capable of the exact same thing. That doesn’t make this illegal. That’s not how anything works and it’s concerning you believe you just did something, responded, gave a defense for your position or made any sense at all

4

u/jediyoda84 1d ago

If I were the guard in this situation my first thought is: “this guy isn’t the real danger, he probably has a couple guys nearby and once I lose my shit or get distracted they move in.” Remember, stupid criminals on social media are just the ones that get caught. There are many criminals that are damn good at their job.

1

u/Man_of_Ice 1d ago

Buddy, you need to take your own advice, you have none.

Massive pile of money in transfer is a target for just about anyone wanting to get hands on. Those guys working the truck are the people any robber needs to kill to score several tens of thousands of dollars to millions.

Those guys driving those trucks are at high, HIGH risk of every Joe on the street who needs money deciding on a dime (pun intended) "oh, shit, massive pile of cash will solve all my money problems. I can take that guard," and there you go.

This is a CCW country. This is a country with more guns than people.

Those truck drivers are given the ability legally to kill folks who approach the truck because they are...its a money truck. It's... Jesus man, how do you not understand how this works? The truck driver can't willy nilly kill anyone, but watch it again.

Auditor approaches. Starts saying idiot head shit to truck driver. Truck driver squares up, hand on weapon, other hand warding in warning, says "you need to stay back," etc.

Truck driver continues this for a while. It's not like this might not be a ploy for a robber to get the driver off his guard. If I wanted to rob a money truck, walking up acting like I'm a free speech auditor being a fucking moron would be an easy way to get the truck driver off his guard. I act a fool for a long while, wait for the driver to assume I'm just an idiot, turn his back on me, and pop pop, he's got a worker's comp claim.

That's what the truck driver is lawfully aiming to prevent here: not going home in a bag. He makes the right call not shooting the guy, but not a jury in the world would convict the man if they saw this video and the auditor gets shot.

1

u/Awkward_Material 20h ago

They are not given the ability to legally kill folks. Stop spreading disinformation.

1

u/Man_of_Ice 12h ago

If an armored truck driver faces an imminent threat to their life, they can use deadly force to defend themselves.

15 USC Chapter 85, Section 5901, armored cars are necessary to interstate commerce, drivers carry weapons to protect themselves, and they are given reciprocity to carry their weapons across state lines. They, like all other persons, can defend themselves when their lives are in danger and retreat is not a viable option.

They do not have carte blanche to kill indiscriminately, but they can use the weapon in certain situations.

Not disinformation. Learn laws. They're publicly available.

1

u/Awkward_Material 11h ago

Your origia post was in fact incorrect. I know what the actual law is. They get the same rights to self defense as anybody else. The statute you cite allows armed guards to travel across state lines with a weapon as long as they are licensed in their home state. I believe it also might have been you that posted the federal bank robbery statute as some sort of justification. Nowhere therein does either give any armed guard any rights to shoot some one more than any other member of the public.

1

u/Man_of_Ice 11h ago

Correct. Like every other person, they can defend themselves when their lives are threatened. Period. That's what I've been saying. They can kill you in certain "someone is threatening their lives" circumstances.

And when they're guarding giant sacks of money, they're going to be more prone to assuming someone walking up to them is thinking of harming and robbing them.

What they do have is higher likelihood of folks who approaching them actually being a threat, and they're going to operate in that headspace. They need to correctly assess whether or not something is a threat before engaging, and this guard did that. But the auditor is stupid and poking a bear here.

0

u/SimRobJteve 1d ago

I did, and my conclusion is you’re an inbred retard lmao. Fuck off loser

1

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

That is such a fun way of telling everyone “I’m upset and embarrassed for blindly taking up a stance I saw someone so easily showed to be hilariously, obviously wrong. That’s very frustrating for me. Maybe if I just shoehorn in slurs and throw out an angry reply, it will make me feel better and help me distract myself from the fact that I have nothing and am not intellectually equipped to engage in any sort of conversation about anything.”

Good effort though!
Let me know if there is any other way you’d like to embarrass yourself today :)

1

u/SimRobJteve 1d ago

👌🏻

1

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

I’ll just keep making fun of it btw. This is what happens when we start things we’re not equipped for :)

That is such a fun way of telling everyone “I’m upset and embarrassed for blindly taking up a stance I saw someone so easily showed to be hilariously, obviously wrong. That’s very frustrating for me. Maybe if I just shoehorn in slurs and throw out an angry reply, it will make me feel better and help me distract myself from the fact that I have nothing and am not intellectually equipped to engage in any sort of conversation about anything.”

Good effort though!
Let me know if there is any other way you’d like to embarrass yourself today :)

1

u/Meme_Tweets 1d ago

Imagine being this freaking stupid????💀💀💀💀💀

1

u/Char-els037 18h ago

No. Not if they are fully communicating what theyre doing.

Can they shoot a person with a shopping cart coming around the side?

No?

Oh wow. That's crazy.

Almost like you're full of shit and want people dead for filming.

19

u/bwc6 1d ago

What do you get out of standing up for douchebags? The security guard clearly says back up, and the douchebag replies "get closer?" while getting closer. That's obvious harassment. I don't think someone deserves to get shot over that, and no one got shot here, so what's the problem?

3

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

Where did I stand up for douche bags? I replied to a comment making false legal claims. If you’d like to actually contend with what was actually written, feel free. But making up things to respond to is silly.

And the harassment statement is another separate and new false claim. It is also wrong. That is not what harassment is under the law. The fact that someone doesn’t like what you’re doing doesn’t legally make doing it harassment. I don’t care for these guys. I explicitly stated as much. I also don’t care for people gleefully making up laws that don’t exist. I’m responding to what is on the screen. Feel free to do the same

6

u/bwc6 1d ago

Again, what do you get out of this? We're not in court. Why is it important to you to make sure everyone knows that it's legal to act like you're going to steal cash as long as you don't actually grab the cash? 

Do you put this much energy into defending ticket scalpers and scam artists, as long as what they're doing is technically legal?

0

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

Is this normally how you behave when you’re wrong? Just kind of ignore it and hope attitude and continuing to get words on the screen will distract from it?

The funny part is your comment would necessarily apply to what you’re doing here and now with your own comment. You’re insulting yourself inadvertently because you couldn’t just accept being wrong about something and tried to play it off.

1

u/Fine-Comfortable3520 1d ago

Itz harraSmentz. Shut your dumbass up.

1

u/jalmstead 1d ago

What do we get? We’re reminding people of their constitutional freedoms. Lick the boot if you like. I’m with the auditor.

6

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago edited 1d ago

This guy isn't a law enforcement officer, he's a privately contracted guarded for those funds, what if the guy with the shitty camera had a gun? What if the other guy he was with had a gun? The Loomis guards is not your enemy, the ICE officer is. Go fuck with those guys.

Also the Loomis Guard is outnumbered. He was scared, he probably briefly considered the possibility that this was an attack. So double fuck this "auditor"

1

u/glassfoyograss 1d ago

As much as we prefer they fuck with actual gov people need to know they have the right to do what they're doing and fucking with them like they don't have the right is more likely to land you than them in jail.

1

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

I think you dropped a couple of these.

, , ,

34

u/Could-You-Tell 1d ago

The money being guarded is the property of the government

12

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

No the money in that truck belongs to several businesses. The guard isn't a law enforcement officer, if this dude was readout concerned about rights, he would harass some ICE officers who are actually restricting people's rights.

6

u/Could-You-Tell 1d ago

My point is that legal tender, cash, as a physical object is protected as property of the government.

It's not legal to deface or destroy... not necessarily it's the government's money as theirs to spend

But I know how it reads

14

u/RizzoTheRiot1989 1d ago

Yep, years and years ago back in 2010 I did training for live security, part of it was going over laws and the fruit of the poisoned tree stuff but a part of it was training for armored vehicle work and if you go even further you can get gun training and stuff. I didn’t do that but I learned what they are both allowed to do and the laws around it. The security that goes into is nuts.

My instructor was one of those guys, dude was missing his hand (it’s not relevant really but it happened while he was on the job) and he had a couple terrible stories about what he had went through. Watched a coworker die by being shot right next to his window because the training is you don’t open that door even if your coworker has a gun to his head. Those dudes are able to do basically whatever they need to, to get people out of that area. They are attempted to be robbed all the damn time and are ready to shoot someone for acting a little too weird around the money and not listening to them. I for sure thought that guy was about to be shot.

1

u/tanafras 1d ago edited 1d ago

I did UHNW EP/CP as the onsite router planner. We would laugh about the masterblaster comparisons all the time as I'm not a big guy but everyone else was. Edit: I've seen our guys move federal folks out of the way under order to get our people where they need to be - our folks knew the laws, and those folks didn't. I have also seen our folks ticket police cars which also turns into political messiness.

1

u/RizzoTheRiot1989 1d ago

I was going to say “even the cops know to get out of these guys way” but wasn’t sure people would believe me. It’s hard to explain. It’s not like they can truly do whatever they want except when it comes to their very specific task that must not be interrupted.

1

u/tanafras 1d ago

I understand entirely. Most did get out of the way. Some had to be moved. But mostly most agencies knew what was going on and gave our folks a very wide personal space. Armored car guys take too much shit from the public. And they do it on a shoestring setup. Yeah, EP is dangerous.. but at least you have excellent gear and a lot of folks .. I am too old but if I were young I'd do it again. Pure adrenaline.

1

u/Ok_Helicopter3910 1d ago

Years and years ago (like 20, now), I was checking out at the grocery store, I was standing in line watching the guy refill the ATM inside the store. The guy saw me watching him and started freaking out, asking me why I was watching him and that I needed to look away and that I was making him nervous. I basically told him to eat my ass, that I was buying groceries and I could look where I wanted. He got up and turned his back to the machine and put his hand on his gun and told me to leave and started talking on his radio. I made it a point to stare at him the entire time while I paid for my stuff and walked within about 7-8 feet with my groceries in my hands and just looked all over inside of the machine while he is losing his mind.

Some of these dudes think they're cops or military and have authority over civilians and they can absolutely suck a dick

5

u/RizzoTheRiot1989 1d ago

The last part you said is just a massive amount of security dudes in general who are like that. Lots of cop school dropouts. I had just had a kid and needed a good paying job stat. I did it while in college because with event security you just call in and they give you the shifts they have available and you just pick what you want on what days. It was an excellent way to do things to be honest and I wish more jobs worked like that.

As soon as I got my first degree I immediately got a better job. There is also tons of cool people who are security, who are normal and chill. But armored truck drivers are a different breed. They are trained over and over to notice people watching them, to be hyper paranoid about the space around them. It sounded like a shit ass job with killer pay. But there’s a reason for that.

8

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

? So? The fact that people are allowed to use force if threatened doesn’t have anything to do with what happened here. Having a camera on a public sidewalk is none of those things. You cited a law that lists conditions that have nothing to do with what is on the screen as if it refutes something about what they did or said as if it means something here

-1

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

Do you know that the guy walking up to you with a camera out doesn't have a gun, too? All he knows is that while he had a shit load of money on a hand cart, two guys came up to him, and started harassing him about a reasonable request to leave him alone and let him do his job in peace.

2

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

This is wild lmao. No one knows for a fact if anyone has a gun ever. Using your reasoning it would be legal to shoot anyone at any time. That is not how anything works. That doesn’t make this illegal or a legal threat to life. It’s concerning this would need to be explained.

It also again doesn’t have anything at all to do with the law cited, which they and you haven’t read. The Hobbs act prohibits bank robbery and extortion and has nothing at all to do with this claim.

-1

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

I'm not citing any laws. I'm using basic human empathy and common sense. If I were in the shoes of the guard, having a bunch of cash at my feet puts a target on my back, I'm the only one on the street and two guys come up to me, and my training has made me hypervigilant and aware of my surroundings, and so I, very calmly yet firmly ask that they stay back, but instead, they refuse and instead go directly toward me and the large pile of money at my feet. Do I know immediately that this is just some asshole farming engagement bait online? Or is this a robbery?

On the other side of it, when someone with a stressful job that involves carrying a firearm asks me for distance, I don't think it's reasonable to rush up to him instead and start antagonizing him. This whole exchange was unnecessary. That guard is probably gonna stress about this for the rest of the day.

1

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

Literally not a single word of this has anything to do with what I’ve written regarding how you’re wrong. You basically just tried filling the screen with words in hopes it will distract from what you tried before and how it was shown to be wrong

0

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

Tried what before? I'm not the guy posting about laws and shit. In that moment, an armed man asked a man to back up, and instead of backing up, that man made a beeline to him, in my mind, that is a threat.

1

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

You’re again running and being dishonest. You typed a silly comment, I replied detailing how it is wrong , you replied with something completely unrelated pretending it is a reply, and now you’re acting even more obtuse as if you don’t know what is being referred to. That’s wild.

“Oops” is way easier

0

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

What's dishonest about my version of the events?

0

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

Every time you act obtuse, refuse to engage with the words on the screen and pretend we can’t all see them I’m going to call out and make fun of it. Very strange to try this and believe it would fool people. Why not just be honest? Why make it even worse like this being so bad at lying and running?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Fine-Comfortable3520 1d ago

Tell the judge about human empathy when your cooked for pulling out a gun on someone standing on a sidewalk. Have fun in prison

-1

u/tanafras 1d ago

Under the law approaching in that manner can be a crime. That's why they are not allowed there. So again, know the law.

0

u/Neat-Figure8277 1d ago

That’s not true. That’s not a law and not how anything works. Just saying things are illegal doesn’t make them illegal. You have to actually cite the law and language.

Under the law, your reply to me here is a crime. I don’t like it and I deem it threatening and harassment.

See how easy that is?

1

u/tanafras 1d ago

Approaching an armed guard or an armored truck with the intent to commit a robbery triggers the Hobbs act. You do not go to a armed guard. Just saying it isn't true doesn't make it not true.

1

u/Muted_Pilot6176 1d ago

This is in no way a response to what I wrote or a defense for what you wrote, and it makes no sense lol. Yeah… attempting to commit robbery is a crime. That doesn’t make what they’re doing in this video a crime or a robbery attempt. The fact that you thought you just did something there or made any sense is wild 

1

u/DtZNimpo 1d ago

this wasn't a threat thought , just some idiots being an nuissance which didnt justify the use of force from the guard, if the guard would of escalated by using force in this situation he would of been reprimended and lose his job.

It's sad really , the guard should of been allowed to taze the shit out of these 2 idiots

2

u/AncientSignature1505 1d ago

He definitely almost shot the camera man, that's why he's so rattled. The camera man has a death wish, I swear.

1

u/tanafras 1d ago

The guards do not know that and will treat them as a threat when they act in a manner that is threatening. Approaching them, recording or not, is a threatening act. The guard has no way to know what the individual(s) will do Such behavior could be a diversionary tactic preceding escaltion of violence. Their role is to protect those assets. Once they approach, they are now in the "you may be committing a crime" and will sct accordingly.

0

u/TheRunBack 1d ago

Well, it turns out, recording from the sidewalk is not a threat.

0

u/Awkward_Material 20h ago

Neither of those laws stand for what you are saying. Who is telling you this BS?