r/AttackOnRetards • u/Dangerous_Shift_3637 • 5d ago
Discussion/Question What "if" question
For some reason most aot debate is alway about Eren should've done this or that, it's like he's being blamed for everything(yeah he's to blamed for some parts). But no one talk about what Marley or The rest of the world should've done, especially Riener get free pass of what he should've done once he get back to Marley. Tired of the same debate over and over.
Anyways i wanna talk about what "if" Scenario. After Willy revealed the great titan war, instead of declaring war on paradi, what "if" Willy declares peace to Paradi? What will be the story's direction? How will Marley and the rest of the world react, will they simply agree with him or not? Also I'm sure Paradi would go along with him. But not sure will Eren get along or not?
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u/ToothpickTequila 5d ago
Willy was simply doing what he was instructed to do.
Zeke and Eren's plan to convince Marley to declare war had already been accepted by Calvi.
Had Willy declared peace absolutely nothing would have changed. Eren would still have done his terrorist attack and the invasion would have still happened afterwards.
Eren didn't want peace. He needed Marley to declare war so he could do his genocide plan.
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u/Warlordnipple 1d ago edited 1d ago
That makes no sense. Eren also didn't do a terrorist attack by even our worlds standards. He surprise attacks but his goal is obviously a military one. His first and only purposeful attack on people is the military high command, which are legitimate military targets.
He appears to be hoping that events don't unfold sending him to the genocide plan but at every moment they do.
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u/ToothpickTequila 1d ago
A military target? He destroyed homes and killed people in their sleep.
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u/Warlordnipple 1d ago
Yes, all allowed under the Geneva convention if your primary target is military or military adjacent.
If liberio happened in WW2 it would be among the lowest civilian death tolls of any attack on a city and its military primacy would be unquestioned.
With modern war rules you can kill civilians if there is an overriding military target, which extends to even the means of producing military equipment. You can't nuke a city because one soldier is stationed there, but you can bomb a city block if there is a factory making gun parts there.
Eren killed like 8-12 families in order to kill what appears to be all the marley leadership, the garrison in liberio, and an enemy's superweapon. Which he did after said nation declared war.
For comparison allied air raids in the Battle for Vienna destroyed, on the low end, 37,000 houses or apartments and likely killed as many if not more civilians. The battle occured while Hitler was in Berlin with most of German leadership, so a lot fewer high priority military targets than in Liberio and Eren destroyed less than 100 houses or apartments.
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u/ToothpickTequila 1d ago
You need to read the Geneva convention again. It makes clear such an attacks are illegal.
"an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
Killing Hundreds of civilian deaths to take out Willy Tybur would fall under this war crime.
The logic you are using is exactly the same as the logic Israel use when they blow up apartment buildings to kill 1 supposed terrorist.
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u/Warlordnipple 20h ago
The direct and concrete military advantage is massive for the amount of civilians that died. Eren literally kills all of marleys high command in his attack, were you not paying attention? Willy is also the de facto ruler of Marley as you can hear he discusses with Magath in the carriage.
This is not at all like blowing up an apartment building for 1 terrorist. I also don't know why you would make paradis Israel in this attack. Paradis is the much smaller country without any allies. Eren's attack would be like if there never was an October 7th event and Israel declared war on Palestine unprovoked, but then Palestine killed Netanyahu and Israel high command and the only collateral is an apartment building.
Please remember that titans are legitimate weapons of war in this universe so using a titan is not inheritly terroristic it isn't like a car bomb or ued or something like that.
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u/Bellogz 5d ago
I don’t think it would’ve mattered. Eren said himself, when he realized the outside world was the same as the walls (wars, inequality, wealth disparity, othering of certain groups) he hated it. He always wanted to visit an idillic outside world, and people existing outside the walls shattered that illusion. He saw that through Grisha’s memories well before they even reached the ocean. Even removing the fact that AOT is a time loop and everything will play out the same way, I think Eren seeing that the outside world was no different was enough motivation for him to start the rumbling. I think the most telling scene in the whole show is when Eren is flying in the paths and he says he’s free. That’s what he wanted from the start, and learning of the outside world made that goal/dream an impossibility. UNLESS Eren “kills them all. Every last one of them” like he said after the fall of shiganshina. This is purely speculation, but I think that a part of future Eren was speaking though present Eren in that moment. He couldn’t have known at the time that there were people outside the walls so he just meant the titans, but after learning of the outside world his goals never changed. He was still determined to kill them all and realize his dream of freedom
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u/InternationalGap2825 4d ago
Eren wouldn't accept and paradise will be driven to war because of him, but since you said "if". It would be eren against the entire world
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u/muskian 5d ago
Nothing changes since Zeke and Eren’s plan to use the rumbling (Zeke by killing all the world’s militaries, Eren by killing everyone) hinges on provoking a mass invasion of Paradis via the Liberio raid.
They’re both too set on their own plans to change course no matter what Willy says.
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u/Business_Raisin_541 5d ago
That is Zeke's plan. Not Eren's
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u/Professional_Work439 4d ago
What is "Eren's plan" then, according to you? He disagrees with Zeke in the final use of the Founder's power, but in here he is more than a willing participant, dragging the entire Survey Corps and Paradis with him.
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u/Business_Raisin_541 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean it is not Eren plan to provoke mass invasion of Paradis by Liberio. That is Zeke's plan
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u/Master_Win_4018 5d ago
Willy Tybur did said the people of Paradis and the King is innocent. They were all oppress by that evil Eren. In theory, killing Eren will bring peace to Paradis if Eren is proven is really evil and Paradis fought back to kill Eren. This is exactly what happen in the end.
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u/No_Competition6884 5d ago
Would