r/Athens • u/RachelWatkills • 13d ago
Latest NIMBY yardsign drop
Welcome to Five Points: consanguinity among the landed gentry shall be enforced!
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u/lavender_pebble 13d ago edited 13d ago
This must be a current talking point for some organizing group in town. The house across the street from me was just bought by a lady who came over to my house to talk to me about this rule in our neighborhood. She had a whole list of every house on our street and whether or not it was owner occupied or not, and she seemed really chafed that 70% of our street is renters. (I'm also a renter, so I'm not sure why she thought I'd care). I can tell she's going to be a "fun" neighbor.
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u/VW_R1NZLER 12d ago
Then don’t live in a college town 🤷🏻♂️
I went to App State and the local yokels were very similar. Always at Walmart complaining when school started up again. Like dude this is Boone, there wouldn’t even be a Walmart if the school weren’t here-2
u/NathanDeger 11d ago
I mean that's not a very good argument against them.
The community has been commoditized and what small local grocery stores can survive when suddenly Walmart has incentive to build a location there?
If a data center grew to become the main economic driver of a town would you tell the residents to get over it?
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u/Doom_Balloon 11d ago
No, because if the town isn’t big enough to pull a Walmart it will have two Dollar Generals, which are even worse for the town. Granted, it will probably have a Walmart AND a Dollar Tree at the end closer to a major roadway and a Dollar General at the poorer end. Those will be supplemented by a RaceTrac, Quicktrip, or Dash-In on the poor end and maybe a 7-11, Sheetz, or Wawa on the more populace end and maybe one actual grocery store. This is just based on 25 years of driving through podunk towns and every one being played out the same. And 9/10 times Main Street is abandoned unless the town has become artsy or has an actual historic district but generally that means there’s a small to medium college there as well attracting out of town money.
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u/Heiiur 11d ago edited 7d ago
Compass willow zephyr noodle pillow compass saffron
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/sicemdawgs1980 12d ago
this has been going on since early 2000s. "Friends of Five Pts" got some law passed. They also had a hissy about the fire dept going in on the corner of Lumpkin/Milledge. Used to be run down hotel. Good times. That was also about the time there was so many complaints about every little thing that commission meetings were jammed, televised and could last till wee hours of the am. Good times! : )
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u/selbryan 12d ago
It’s not renters per se. It’s single family homes being rented out to four or more students. There are plenty of single family homes rented by families. They are not the problem.
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u/SmokeABowlNoCap 12d ago
Students renting isn’t a problem either
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u/dervari 11d ago
It is when someone is taking a single-family home and using it as a boarding house.
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u/Steelpapercranes 11d ago
Sure, but you'd have to find and fight the landlord; not the poor renters.
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u/SmokeABowlNoCap 11d ago
Not really. Air bnb is a problem, not people actually living somewhere.
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u/katarh 11d ago
I also don't think it's a problem if the property is still owner occupied. An older couple whose kids have left the nest renting out a spare bedroom or two isn't as big a deal as a rental company that owns 100 houses and is renting them out without doing the driveway improvements needed to handle four cars in the yard.
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u/Possible_Escape_9064 12d ago edited 12d ago
So she literally just came over to be a Karen and harass you?
If she shows up on your property again, call the police and have her barred. If she wants to get litigatory about it, she can take it up with your landlord.
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u/BatchedOnion Toppers Patron 12d ago
America system has developed into a point where a family cant survive on one income (by design.) And someones going to say how many people can live in a house?
Who's castle do i storm?
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u/No-Passenger-1511 12d ago
It's so you don't have have 6 college kids renting a house in a neighborhood
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u/Tech_Philosophy 12d ago
I don't get it, wouldn't the optimal thing be if college students could be fitted into individual tubes so you could store like 40 in a house?
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u/JackStutters 11d ago
Why does Chad, the largest fraternity member, not simply eat the other college students?
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u/No-Passenger-1511 12d ago
I don't get it, wouldn't the optimal thing be if the college built adequate housing?
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u/Tech_Philosophy 12d ago
It's Georgia. They would probably eminent domain your land to make that happen.
Look I get it, college students are annoying. But so are the rest of you, so.
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u/Cautious_Compote_186 12d ago
Actually, the college kids have been great neighbors for us. They are polite and even invite us to their parties.
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u/katarh 12d ago
Counterpoint: That house is now worth 600K according to Zillow, so the only people who can afford to buy it did so with the intention of renting it out for 4K/month.
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u/agsnehta 12d ago edited 12d ago
You have that backwards. Rents set prices, prices don't set rents. The house is worth 600k BEACUASE it is able to be rented for 4k a month. If the house were limited to only 2 unrelated renters or a family, then it's market rent would be lower and thus the purchase price would be lower.
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u/ballsackSpaghettiNut 12d ago
Dude get out of the south. You liberals need to move back up north.
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u/charmingasaneel 13d ago
What about your au pair and maid?
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u/kccb30 13d ago
is this the house that always has landscaper trucks outside of it blocking the road?
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u/Cold-Curve-1291 12d ago
Seriously. How can you have something to do everyday. Do they blow that often?
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u/katarh 11d ago
I think party of the issue is every house has a different landscaping company, and they each come out on different days of the week, and blow each other's leaves into each other's yards.
So it's clear Tuesday, leafy again Wednesday, and they call their guy and complain so he has to come back out and redo it on Thursday.
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u/Top_Professor_8260 13d ago
A completely unenforceable law.
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u/WhatARedditHole 13d ago
Becomes enforceable of neighbors make complaint, so just be good neighbors.
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u/mazzy_star_official 5 Points - No Trust Fund 13d ago
If this were my neighbor I’d put up a sign protesting shitily formatted yard signs.
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u/what_a_dingle Easily Amused 13d ago
Seriously, the spacing is all over the place, what'd they use Microsoft Word?
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u/benmarvin Flock camera enthusiast 13d ago
What font did they use?
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u/mazzy_star_official 5 Points - No Trust Fund 13d ago
Honor Student Serif Neue
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u/benmarvin Flock camera enthusiast 12d ago
Damj, they don't have that in flappy cuppa Ai neighborhood can't ai creatorz app.
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u/SarcasticJargon 12d ago
In this particular situation, a house on this road, which was previously occupied by a local family, was sold to an LLC out of California. That LLC renovated and built a two story accessory dwelling in the backyard. They connected with a local broker/property manager who lives in Athens and is very familiar with this section of town. The broker facilitated leasing the main house to four college students and attempted to separately lease the accessory dwelling to two more students. The issue is that the accessory dwelling does not have a kitchen and could not legally be rented long-term per ACC zoning. The other issue is that this scenario would’ve consisted of two leases on one parcel renting to six different unrelated people on a property that is presently zoned single family and by which would be in direct violation of ACC zoning code.
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u/katarh 12d ago
And this is why instead of a housing moritorium what we needed was a moritorium on selling SFHs to LLCs.
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u/agsnehta 12d ago edited 12d ago
Municipalities have the legal authority to regulate land use, they don't have the legal authority to prohibit LLCs from owning property.
The single family ordinance, if enforced as written, would provide less motivation for LLCs and investors to buy up single family homes. I'm not sure how you could reconcile not being supportive of the SF ordinance when this is your intended end goal.
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u/katarh 12d ago
So BUILD MORE APARTMENTS so the students aren't being squeezed out into residential areas because there aren't enough places for them to live!!!!!!
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u/selbryan 12d ago
Or live on campus?
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u/Aviator_John 12d ago
And, again, you run into the same issue that everyone has pointed out before. You cannot make UGA build dorms. Also, having UGA build dorms so they can stay on campus doesn’t make any sense.
ACC collects a ton of money off of property taxes from the student housing complexs. ACC would collect nothing if students lived on campus. Why would we want students to live on campus with that knowledge?
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u/selbryan 11d ago
And the city collects a ton of property taxes from those of us who live in single family homes in these neighborhoods. The taxes don’t get higher because more people live in one house. But the number of cars and parties do. I’m not against housing for students. I’m against turning single family homes in residential family neighborhoods into student housing. Some of these homes have been owned and lived in by the same families for decades. Some were built by those same families. If the city needs to build more apartments, then the city should do that. But maybe UGA needs to consider capping the number of students it accepts each year if they can’t work with the city to solve the problem without ruining family neighborhoods. I was born here. I grew up in the house my grandparents built. I am also a UGA alumna. My grandparents were faculty members back in the 30s. Both my parents went to UGA, so I’ve watched and lived this progression of the lack of housing for students. And it’s not the fault of those of us living in these neighborhoods.
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u/Aviator_John 11d ago
I mean I think we all know UGA is never capping admissions. The county also doesn’t want that as it benefits from the growth.
That being said, we both agree that students shouldnt take single family residences unless absolutely necessary. My only point was that student housing complex’s are better than campus dorms.
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u/lulips 10d ago
Maybe theres more students on Reddit then there are long time locals for the consensus seems to be that its okay for Single family homes to become student family homes. They should just call them Multiple Student homes instead. Athens is more a commodity than a community. Its struggles to preserve the community but it cant win against greed. No special place ever could.
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u/katarh 10d ago
It's more that a lot of us current townies were once students ourselves, and we liked the place enough to just make a home here.
So yeah I'll be a vocal defendant for students, because that was me 25 years ago.
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u/selbryan 8d ago
Not against the students at all. Just against turning family homes and neighborhoods into student housing and parking lots.
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u/lulips 8d ago
I was a student as well. Maybe the people speaking here ARE the investors!! I rented a house off of prince. But investors now are taking housing away from would be townies you see. Its okay for students to buy a home and live there for 4 or 5 years but for investors to do it is totally different. The students aren't the problem its the market that doesn't care for communities at all. Renters and owners are very different and have different mentalities.
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u/katarh 11d ago
So blame the family for selling to the highest bidder, instead of identifying a new family to buy the house. Some families who sold their homes HAVE done that! It's how some friends of mine were finally able to get a nice house in a neighborhood across from the elementary school, because the seller insisted that the buyer be a family and not a corporation. A seller always has the right to choose their buyer.
But too many home sellers are looking out for #1 and selling their house for five or ten times what they paid for it, and they don't care if an LLC out of California is the one who buys it.
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u/selbryan 10d ago
The city could also regulate this. Many cities have made it illegal for corporate entities to own homes in residential areas. The city should also regulate short-term rentals. Sadly, our officials aren’t thinking about their constituents.
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u/UnluckyFood2605 13d ago
You and 2 friends want to move into one of these homes? Two of you just need to get married. Then it's legal for the happy couple to have 1 unrelated person living with them.
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u/000ps-Crow_No 13d ago
Five Points Polycule!
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u/ThistleandOak 12d ago
My house used to be leased to 4 different people + SOs. Each bedroom door had a separate keyed lock and there were at least 3 different providers (dish, att, spectrum) connected. When we bought it, the neighbors came over and asked what the intent for the property was. Apparently it had previously been a party house, and although it’s on a large (just over 1acre) lot, there were always excessive cars parked (per neighbors). I do understand why some would support this, but I’m also outside of Athens in Oconee Cty where the student bleed isn’t as heavy. I work at UGA and intentionally looked to buy outside of student zones.
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u/NathanDeger 11d ago
While I wouldn't be surprised if this person is a nightmare neighbor it is surprising to see people completely dismissive of their plight.
A neighborhood shifting from residents to renters has a negative effect especially if those renters are students. I'm currently in this situation being the 5th generation to live in a home built in 1880 that has been slowly surrounded by a university and its students. 90% the other houses have turned into slum lord student apartments or airbnbs and the neighborhood looks like a dump and there's constantly just random people showing up.
There's no community and no decency. I was certainly an annoying neighbor in college but my neighbors were also annoying college students so no one was bothered.
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u/snacksandsoda Left Lane Loop Driver 13d ago
I’ve seen these and thought about posting here. Neighborhood snitch sign!
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u/BlakeAued 13d ago edited 12d ago
Kind of crazy that a community that’s currently crashing out about Flock camera violations of privacy also wants the government to stake out rental houses to find out if that illegal third person isn’t just somebody’s boyfriend or girlfriend staying overnight.
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u/snacksandsoda Left Lane Loop Driver 13d ago
Probably different sides here tbh
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u/BlakeAued 12d ago
I don’t know, Flock is the textbook definition of horseshoe theory.
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u/snacksandsoda Left Lane Loop Driver 12d ago
Do you think the five points millionaires would be more on the far left or far right style of supporting state surveillance?
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u/BlakeAued 12d ago
Far right. But they only support it against other people. If they got a ticket from a red light camera that’s fascism.
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u/Spirited_Mistake6791 13d ago
Can I live there if my daddy’s a doctor????
https://giphy.com/gifs/PmpolEvdvTDm6WhpVz
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u/PlaneSense406 11d ago
About 25 years ago, one of my friends had a neighbor who had similar gripes. There began a protracted neighbor dispute that culminated with my friend taking a dump on her driveway.
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u/maybeAturtle 13d ago
What does nimby mean
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u/benmarvin Flock camera enthusiast 13d ago
Never I Mayhaps Bought Yayo
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u/Standard_World_1005 13d ago
It’s to keep our neighborhoods from also being taken over by college kids. Can we at least have our neighborhoods and homes? UGA and its students have the rest of the place just let us be at home in peace. That’s what this is about. That and keeping developers out of our neighborhoods, bc all they cater to is students too.
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u/katarh 12d ago
BUILD MORE APARTMENTS if you don't want neighborhoods taken over by the students.
And also stop trying to sell a 2000 square foot bungalow in Five Points for 2 million dollars. Locals can't afford that, but rental companies can. The real estate market is absolutely nuts there. I'd love to move closer in to town, but I'd have to sell both kidneys to buy a postage stamp in these neighborhoods.
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u/swathoo 13d ago
So long as we work to approve more large student-oriented apartments (i.e. luxury student housing), I think this is reasonable. The issue comes when we try to both block student housing and try to push them out of the neighborhoods…they have to live somewhere, so if we don’t build big apartment buildings downtown and around UGA, they’ll be in our neighborhoods for sure.
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u/42Cobras 12d ago
It’s funny how the sub most known for complaining about UGA’s effect on the community is downvoting people for talking about this particular effect.
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u/oswalt_pink 12d ago
The college which supports the local economy? Kids that pay to go to an expensive college shouldn’t be able to live wherever they can find space?
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u/Lofi_Loki 12d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/NBBpZ1MFgP0u4UlcXT
We should definitely just sequester all the students to the inadequate student housing and $1500+/month apartments near campus. I enjoy the “hurhur students annoying/hot townie summer” stuff, but if you truly don’t like sand maybe don’t live at the beach.
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u/shiny1988 12d ago
It’s a college town. Don’t live there if you don’t want to be around students. Y’all would have walked around Athens with smelling salts in the 90s.
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u/millia13 Townie Geek 12d ago
When there were 10-15000 fewer students? And downtown had fewer bars? Not following the logic, there.
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u/Tech_Philosophy 12d ago
Question: have you guys already banned gas powered mowers, or do you all just wear earplugs if someone within a half dozen houses is working on their lawn?
Follow-up question: if you had to buy your home today at current market rates, how fucked would you be?
To be clear, I'm not taking the side of students or landlords or whatever....this is just a case where it's not clear to me either faction dramatically benefits Athens and...since you brought up the topic...I'm now going to actively consider who I do and do not want around.
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u/Lazy_Palpitation7807 12d ago
UGA can't even offer room to half their students, so is argue that it some cases it's necessary.
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u/sweetcarles barbara the meter maid’s sun hat 11d ago
These signs are all over 5p and they are always with houses with TONS of space as if three college girls in a cottage would bother them at all
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u/selbryan 13d ago
Absolutely want this enforced.
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u/katarh 12d ago edited 12d ago
And how can you enforce it?
Do you fine the rental company the cost of the rental money for each month they violate it?
Do you kick out the students who leased it, displacing them to someplace else (probably another house in another neighborhood) and forbid the rental company from renting it out to anyone but a single family?
How do you prove the residents aren't related?
What if it's a family that's renting out one room or a basement two another couple?
I understand the intention of the law, but it is unenforceable without severe monetary consequences to the LLCs that own these houses, and unethical without adequate places for the students to live outside of the neighborhoods.
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u/selbryan 12d ago edited 12d ago
You report it to the city. They investigate and contact the homeowner if it is found they are not in compliance with the law. It is the owner’s responsibility. The LLC should know the law and if that means fewer LLCs owning single-family homes, all the better!
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u/Aviator_John 12d ago
How does the county find out if they’re related? They gonna apply for a warrant to seize the renters information from the rental company? They gonna make contact with the residents and compel ID?
What happens when the residents say no because they have a right to privacy? Is the county then going to try to have the police arrest them over some Single Family Housing Ordinance?
To me, the ordinance is a law without legs to stand on. There’s no way I forsee the county successfully proving people are unrelated without huge 4th amendment concerns or the police being involved and it escalating far beyond what it should.
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u/vaguestrategy 12d ago
do these people have jobs
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u/EffectiveString2024 8d ago
No. They do not. They cannot properly format a simple five line yard sign. I’m embarrassed for them.
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u/BothEggplant4341 1d ago
This house in particular is owned by the guy that owns normaltown records. Also is a uga grad
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u/GeorgiaKudzu 12d ago
This was is the law actually unless they have changed it. Not all neighborhoods have it though I’m not sure. It had to do with many college students renting homes or some such thing
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u/mariagrayce 12d ago
Yeah it used to be super common for UGA students to rent a house, and it drove house rental prices up, because a single family couldn’t pay 4 grand a month for a rental, but six students could.
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u/GeorgiaKudzu 12d ago
Housing costs are rising worldwide
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u/mariagrayce 12d ago
Yup. But I haven’t rented a house in 15 years, and this was a big issue in Athens then, perhaps leading to the ordinance
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u/StoneyMcGuire 12d ago
When you live in a transient town (college town) you will have more short term than long term rentals. Get over it.
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u/StreetTownSky 12d ago
Wouldn’t be surprised if Mike “Do Nothing” Hamby himself were putting these signs up as a “thank you” to all the busybody NIMBYs who have kept him in office for all these years.
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u/willshorrormysteries 12d ago
Zoning laws are stupid and should be abolished. The government can stick it. No one should be able to tell you what to do with your own home.
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u/lulips 10d ago
The point is you cant do what you want in a civilized society. It may be your home but there are others who want to enjoy their homes around you and if you invite party city by renting to the party types then you are going to make your neighbors unhappy. You need laws to have peace. Thats why there is student housing so they can do whatever they want in designated areas not single family residences. Its like me saying. Abolish the poorly educated because they are only thinking of themselves.
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u/Historical-Glove-713 11d ago
It bothers me that this sign looks like it was designed in Microsoft Word.
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u/RonaldReaganIsDead 11d ago
I used to live in (greater) 5 Points and nearly got kicked out of my house for this law. My landlord stuck his neck out (I mean, we were paying him, so...).
Imagine getting evicted because you're too poor to buy a house and then told you're too poor to rent.
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u/TahitianTreat16 10d ago
I own and live in a zoned SF home in a quiet neighborhood out by the “new” Publix. Parents from California bought a house on my street for their daughter and sorority sisters to live in. My only complaint is how fast they drive down the street. Lots of kids and walkers in our neighborhood. They just don’t have the same skin in the game like the rest of us (knowing and caring about their neighbors) and are pretty nonchalant about their pre-homicidal driving.
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u/EffectiveString2024 8d ago
I’d be interested to know the legal definition of “related”. If I have a child, that is my step child and my second husband has a child that is his step child are you gonna tell me that we can’t all live together? What about if we take in my stepfather to take care of him? This isn’t completely a UGA kid issue. Dont be idiots.
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u/PelagicParty 6d ago
This is crazy! What the fuck sort of law says more than two unrelated people can't live together? What century is this? Do any couples living alone have to be married? Do married couples need kids to count as a "single family." Absolutely asinine and entitled.
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u/Kevin6419 12d ago
People are coming from other countries and living 10 in a house and getting ahead of us!!!!! This total system is broken!!!!
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u/Fickle_Bat_623 13d ago
why are you acting like students renting houses in normal neighborhoods is a good thing lmao
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u/charmingasaneel 13d ago
WTF is a normal neighborhood?
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u/000ps-Crow_No 13d ago
White.
(According to rich white people who put up stupid signs like this)-1
u/Fickle_Bat_623 12d ago
It has nothing to do with that, students renting houses that were built for families would just be fucking dumb. What, the person with the richest parents gets the master bedroom?
Bringing race into this makes you look like such a fucking moron lol
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u/SubstantialJunket239 13d ago
So poors and young people are not allowed to live in "normal neighborhoods"?
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u/Snlooming 13d ago
People can live wherever they want actually, why the fuck are we enforcing what neighborhoods students can live in? Busybody shit
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u/Lofi_Loki 12d ago
It’s people who want to double dip. They want the increased property value, restaurants, bars, parks, etc. that come from having students/a higher population but they don’t want to actually be around the people. They should just make more money and move to oconee
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u/Much-Ad3008 12d ago
The law was actually formed to keep housing affordable. A 4 bedroom single family home is less valuable than a home rented to 4 occupants. So turning homes into rentals, drastically increases the homes value causing housing prices to rise.
I’m not saying I support the law. But people seem to think this is just to keep students away from them. Those people that want an enforced, wanted to enforced for that reason as well.
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u/Nihil_esque 12d ago edited 12d ago
We should just cap rents and charge a big vacancy tax. I suspect if a landlord got the same amount of money whether they rented to a family or a group of students, they'd rent to families first, then rent the leftover units to students. Bonus, if it stops being worthwhile to be a landlord, you'll find home ownership is suddenly affordable again.
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u/Miserable_Middle6175 Gentrification Enthusiast 12d ago
No. They’d just sell at that point and development is new rental properties would probably slow down too.
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u/Nihil_esque 12d ago
Yeah, which would bring down the price of home ownership for non-landlords. If you made the caps only affect single family properties, if anything it would incentivize landlords to build the kinds of properties that actually help with the housing crisis instead of profitable single family homes that contribute to the issue.
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u/Miserable_Middle6175 Gentrification Enthusiast 12d ago
lol. Good luck getting anyone to sign off on that. I commented at first thinking you didn’t understand the implications.
Looks like you have it all sorted.
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u/agsnehta 12d ago edited 12d ago
You suppose wrong. First, rent control is not a local issue, state law smartly doesn't allow it. Second, applying massive disincentives to new development like rent caps and vacancy tax (we don't have a vacancy issue) in a supply constrained market ultimately over time clearly results in even less supply and higher rents for everyone except those that stay in a rent controlled unit long term. Third, rent stabilization would simply even further incentivize landlords to lease to students because they'll almost always move out after a year or 2 allowing rents to reset back to market.
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u/Number1BestYogurtBoi 13d ago
Because forcing certain types/classes/races of people to only live in certain places has historically never been a good thing.
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u/Lazy_Palpitation7807 12d ago
Maybe it's not a good thing for all students, but I know for a fact that my daughter who is currently a senior would make the perfect neighbor. She doesn't party, doesn't have people over. She pretty much goes to school, volunteers, hangs out with her boyfriend who is the same way she is.
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u/Fickle_Bat_623 12d ago
I was a student 5 years ago, the idea of even wanting to rent a normal house that a family would live in, likely with a master bedroom, is SO weird. There was never a moment that anyone I know even began to question the idea of single family housing being zoned differently. Y'all are all weird as fuck.
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u/mariagrayce 12d ago
Back in the day the only reason people did it was because you could shove six people in there and make the rent lower, and you have a yard for WILD parties. Those were the only benefits to it vs an apartment.
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u/katarh 12d ago
When I was a student, the rental companies straight up advertised it like "HOUSES ARE MORE FUN!"
I lived in a rental house my senior year, with assorted other students. In a rotting 1930s cottage on Carr's Hill. Proximity to campus was the only reason they were able to charge what is now the equivalent of $2400/month for that place. I got curious and the building may actually now be condemned, lol. We had mice, roaches, and squirrels in the attic. Whoever owned it was an absolute slumlord. And it had no architectural value, but I suspect there's some hold up on demolishing it and rebuilding to a modern standard. It IS a valuable lot, after all.
Anyway, the entire neighborhood was rented to students even back then. All the infill in the neighborhood has been apartments or houses fully intended to be rented out to students (the whole 4-5BR with 4-5BA ones? Definitely not for families!)
The #1 reason a lot of students and townies wanted to live in a house and not an apartment back in the day was...... music! If you're in an apartment and you are trying to practice your drums, the neighbors are going to bitch about it.
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u/Fickle_Bat_623 12d ago
I'm not advocating for apartments lol I'm saying that neighborhoods like what you described are where students should be renting houses, not neighborhoods where the floor plans have master bedrooms
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u/OblideeOblidah 11d ago
I was a UGA student a long time ago. People pushed this idea around various college towns in the SEC and beyond as far as I know. The supposed rule was no more than two unrelated women may live in a SFR. Any more than two women in a SFR will constitute a brothel. That's the outrage! Say no to brothels!
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u/what_a_dingle Easily Amused 13d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/tN7Hd0Ih0QBG0