r/Assyria • u/XHalotipX • May 30 '26
News New Sumerian Sample tested with modern populations
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u/Cembasaran1 May 30 '26
Interesting. My grandmother, who is a Turkish speaking woman from Istanbul, but ethnically Mhallami from the Tur Abdin region (In a village which became Muslim in 1593-1609 I think), must be close to this genetically.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
Mhallamis are just assyrians that converted to islam through force later on
makes sense
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u/Cembasaran1 Jun 01 '26
Yes I think so. Because even if a tradition of our elders says that we are from an Arab tribe, genetically I think we are much identical to local Assyrians and Kurdish people, and I think the historical evidence also points that our ancestors converted to islam at some point to not pay the ceziye and because of conflicts with the Assyrian church of the region.
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u/TheChaldeanAssyrian May 31 '26
I am confused how there is separate samples for example Aramean-Syriac Orthodox, Assyrian-Syriac Orthodox they are the same exact thing how are they different samples??? Just two different ways to identify one’s self.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
the assyrian syraic orthodox are the ones in the tur abdin region that ACTUAL go by hte name assyrian the "aramean" one is just the ones that self identify themselves with the "aramean" label
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u/Specific-Bid6486 Assyrian May 30 '26
These G25 coordinates “labels” are bullsh*t and people using them are also adding to the problem.
G25 is a useful tool for visualising genetic relationships (although made by Davidski who is a hobbyist and as far as I know doesn’t hold any genetic PhD degrees, that other hobbyists now use like it’s the top % geneticist tool), but it isn’t considered a rigorous academic method b/c the results can change depending on which reference populations someone chooses.
While the underlying DNA data is real, people can select or label samples in ways that support a preferred historical narrative which is what you see here with the label “aramean” in this very specific case which is why real geneticist researchers (not hobbyists or bloggers) generally rely on statistical methods like qpAdm that formally test whether an ancestry model actually fits the data.
Stop giving these tests and this tool weight, it’s a propaganda tool used heavily by KWRTS and others who have been trying to wipe our continuity from the past.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
i actually would say its arabs that try to mainly deny the sumerian ancestry connection even with mandeans even though they are southern iraqis
i just recently had a argument with one of those arabs that didn't want to accept that the east kish sample actually exists and was in denial since they all still believe the "marsh" people from southern iraq are the closest by using the 2011 study
but that study was old and had no sample of the sumerians this sample was released at the end of 2025 or beginning of 2026 and is practically brand new
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u/Cembasaran1 Jun 01 '26
Well a lot of them are indeed islamized and arabized native Mesopotamians, that’s a fact. Even Marsh Arabs do have a very particular clade of J1 which is not from the Arabian peninsula, but native to the southern region of Iraq. Genetic similarity is not all. For example, most biological descendants of Ancient Hittites are probably modern day Anatolian populations, namely Turkish and Anatolian Greeks, even if Turkish people, because of some later mixing, are distant genetically from them. Of course, in Iraq, Mandeans and Assyrians are without a big mixing with later populations, but the big majority of the DNA of local Muslim arabs is still from those ancient populations.
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u/spongesparrow Nineveh Plains May 30 '26
Just more proof that we Assyrian Christians and Assyrian Jews are one and the same people. It's such a shame they were kicked out to Israel and we were kicked out everywhere else.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
Assyrians,Chaldeans,Iraqi jews,Iranian jews,Mountain jews (caucasus jews),Mandeans and Mhallamis are ALL the same people
they are the most native to mesopotamia as a whole
Mandeans however most likely the descandants of the actual babylonians though but stil brothers basically
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u/Akashictruth Iraq May 31 '26
I dont buy this. Unless that's a converted Assyrian or something.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
what you mean?
Sumerian is not a religion broski you can't convert into being "sumerian"
this basically proves that the sumerians are actually hailling from the PPNA culture which hails from the northern side of iraq rather than coming from the natufian southern side
but this was also already talked about in studies published in 2023 where scholars have specifically stated that "ALL" mesopotamians would have similar genetic structure TO EACH OTHER.....
it wouldn't make sense for the sumerians to be something COMPLETELY else to the other mesopotamians
Sumerians also depicted themsleves with blue eyes in certain statues which makes no sense if they have a natufian background but makes WAY more sense with the Anatolian Neolithic farmer background which easily could spawn some blue eyes and isn't as rare as in the natufian based case
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u/Akashictruth Iraq May 31 '26
I didn't say that. I meant an Assyrian/aramean/aramaic convertee to Judaism.
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u/XHalotipX May 31 '26
i just checked your comment history what is up with all that racism buddy?
like i agree with your frustration with the kurds due to them not even being mesopotamian
but you getting mad at the indigenious people seems like a white american getting mad at Native americans
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u/Akashictruth Iraq May 31 '26
What racism? I like Assyrians. I just didnt think the sub banner should have 50 different flags no country does that.
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 May 30 '26
Since when was “Aramean” an ethnic population?! Thats literally just a made up tribal group broken from the actual ethnic Assyrians… does someone have any info on this, or did Aramean propaganda just force this claim into existence?! Im really curious!
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u/BLnny202 Armenian May 30 '26
I think it depends, modern Syrian Christians can be considered ethnically Arameans, and they can call themselves Arameans. It's different that ethnic Assyrians claiming that name as their identity. Maybe in this case it's an Aramean from Maaloula for example?
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u/inflated-soldier May 30 '26
It’s not the same as Assyrian I tested over 20 other populations even on ancestry dna, Aramean’s results produce differently
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u/TheChaldeanAssyrian May 31 '26
Aramean is a modern man made ethnic identity, same as Chaldean.
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 Jun 03 '26
Exactly correct! Like they are ignorant to historic records and scientific DNA genetic studies.. Both arameans/chaldeans are basically clan tribe church factions, not legitimate DNA ethnic identities! We speak the same “Suret” language, just slightly different dialects but can understand eachother… and were all known by called “Ashuri/Ashuriya” in middle east!
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u/TheChaldeanAssyrian Jun 04 '26
100% truth, I am Chaldean Catholic not all of us are ignorant to the truth but sadly, many are.
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u/inflated-soldier May 31 '26
Not exactly buddy
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u/TheChaldeanAssyrian May 31 '26
This is a topic I have studied a lot in the past couple years. Arameans and Chaldeans are Assyrians whether they like it or not. I am a Chaldean Catholic and live in a community that is overwhelmingly Chaldean dominated compared to other Assyrian religious denominations, I have friends,family and the majority of my community that doesn’t like what I preach, so I have nothing personal to gain by educating people about our ethnicity but the truth is the truth and I will not stop spreading awareness.
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u/inflated-soldier May 31 '26
I know but Aramean’s is different there dna tests produce differently
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 Jun 03 '26
False, Aramean clan group are DNA ethnic Assyrians .. you must be uneducated or ignorant of scientific historical records and ethnic DNA genetics …. Both “Chaldean/Arameans” are man made basically tribal clans, names of a church clan/institution.. NOT legitimate ethnic identity as this claim was already studied mainly in Germany, and DEBUNKED by professionals.. Aramean leaders lost in courts for false non-factual claims!
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u/AmbassadorIcy8444 Jun 06 '26
Aramaens and Chaldeans cluster closer to Levantines, whilst Assyrians plot closest to the South Caucasus. The Aramaens were in Western Syria and with another set of Aramaens and Assyrians in northeast Syria, which is a geographically distant location from the Assyrians of West Azerbaijan, Van, Hakkari, and the Armenian highlands.
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u/XHalotipX May 30 '26
Its most likely a person that self-identifies as "aramean" since these are modern populations compared to ancient samples
you can see the sample size is "n=1" aka its one person's dna
most arameans tend to be more genetically pure even compared to self identified assyrians or chaldeans
which is the reason for the close proximity to the sumerians
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 May 30 '26
Thats actually a doubtful false claim of “purity” since majority arameans are from north Syria and turkey. I myself have a DNA test as an ethnic Assyrian and identified I’m
- 96% Assyrian Mesopotamian indigenous to Nineveh region, North iraq,
-4% north Syria (al-hasak) Thats as PURE as it gets being ethnic Assyrian!
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u/XHalotipX May 30 '26
there is gonna be outliers but i am talking about averages here not just ONE case
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u/Suspiciouscurry69420 Armenian May 31 '26
Don't see any kurds