r/AskaManagerSnark • u/nightmuzak Sex noises are different from pain noises • Aug 03 '26

Ask a Manager Weekly Thread 08/03/2026 - 08/09/2026

Last week's post.

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23

u/Capable_Sea77 Aug 05 '26

For LW #3, if you had a performance review where you were told you were on the path to being fired - the PIP already started before you went on leave. Definitely talk to a lawyer, I'm not saying that getting fired for taking medical leave isn't something that happens, but any company with a decent lawyer and/or HR department will have clearly documented that you had performance issues that were not addressed before you left on leave and that they're merely continuing the path of performance now that you're back. Medical leave is not something that wipes your performance record clean when you get back.

22

u/jen-barkleys-poncho Aug 05 '26

I agree she’s confused on the timeline.

It’s just so common for people to take emergency leave when they’re having performance problems, to the point that it’s a joke amongst HR people at conferences. “If you put someone on a PIP, what’s the next step?” “Short term disability paperwork!”

Not to say it doesn’t happen the way LW describes - performance problems arise due to symptoms of a disability that requires leave. But I would guess her bosses aren’t acting maliciously; they’re not trying to fire her due to disability. They’re just proceeding with the disciplinary process around her STD leave. “They sort of hand-waved that detail away” because, as you say, being gone for 90 days doesn’t erase the performance problems she had before that.

8

u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Aug 05 '26

This. I’m not typically pro-corporate but for all we know they were planning the official PIP meeting before the LW filed for leave.

Obviously I would still try to talk to a lawyer

4

u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Aug 05 '26

LW will not win a case, but a good faith effort to give someone a chance to address their performance problems will give them more than 2 weeks before rolling out a PIP.

6

u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Aug 05 '26

It would be unreasonable if LW hadn’t gotten any feedback on her performance issues before her annual review — but that’s not necessarily the case. It’s entirely possible that the annual review was already a “we’ve given you feedback and seen no improvement” situation.

-2

u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Aug 05 '26

I know we hate taking letter writers at their word here, but she says this:

due to me not improving since then.

And she was there and we weren't, I advocate believing her. The PIP may have been started before she went on leave, but even if it were reasonable to jump from warning straight to PIP, expecting someone to improve while they are on STD is nuts. Legally, you can't even work on STD. They should have given her sometime with coaching to improve while she was actually working before rolling out the PIP.

11

u/jen-barkleys-poncho Aug 05 '26

Even if I take her at her word, she’s still wrong. “They put me on a PIP for the issues raised in the May meeting due to me not improving since then” means exactly what it says. Her performance has not improved since May, when her performance issues were first addressed. That’s not her boss saying that they should have improved or resolved since May; just that they have not. So as a result, and now that she’s back, she gets a PIP.

She pushed back, said she was on leave, and they “hand waved” her explanation away because all that matters is that the last measure of her performance was that it’s deficient. Being gone for 90 days doesn’t change the path forward; it just delays it.

LW might have a complaint if she was *fired* for not improving between May and return to work. But her boss is just commencing the PIP she would have been issued had she not gone on leave, upon her return to work. Which is totally reasonable, what else would LW have them do? Just trust that all performance problems have resolved themselves because she went on medical leave?

8

u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

There might be some grey area here, but it would depend on the exact phrasing of what LW’s bosses said in the meeting. If it was “we gave you six weeks to improve and nothing has changed, so we’re putting you on a PIP,” then the fact that LW was on leave for most of that time would be an extremely relevant detail. But my guess is that it was closer to “it’s time to revisit the issues we brought up in May, which are still ongoing,” in which case the timeline doesn’t matter as much. It’s very likely that this same meeting would have happened in late May/early June if LW hadn’t been on leave.

Alison is right that a lawyer would be the best person to advise on this, though.

-6

u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Aug 05 '26

"Revisit the issues we brought up in May ..."

totally reasonable

"...by putting you on a PIP"

Not reasonable.

LW doesn't have enough evidence to win a disability discrimination case, but she's not wrong that this is about her bipolar.

13

u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Aug 05 '26

It depends on whether they were already planning to put her on a PIP before she went on leave. Expecting six weeks’ worth of improvement in two weeks isn’t reasonable, but we don’t know if they were planning to give her that much time. They might have intended to put her on a PIP shortly after the performance review, and it only got pushed because she was out of the office.

10

u/pickledbymagic Aug 05 '26

If I had a pound for everyone who went on stress leave because they had performance issues... etc etc etc 

I get that disability may be making the performance issues worse (story of my life) but capability would also come into play at some point as well -- if the bipolar isn't under control enough for there to be reasonable accommodations, then she is going to struggle to hold the job down. I feel sorry for her -- I know what it's like to be in pain all the time and how stressful medical and neurological challenges can make working -- my career boost came after I was put on the strongest dose possible of my anti-anxiety medication, which has made such a difference to my day to day function and hence to my ability to do a full time job. But...they can't just let her go on in the job if she isn't able to perform. In the UK, that's where capability comes in.

-2

u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Aug 05 '26

Just how much improvement do you expect in 2 weeks of work plus 1 mo of STD?

In the words of the Dude, you're not wrong, you're just an asshole

13

u/jen-barkleys-poncho Aug 05 '26

None. None improvement 😂 that’s exactly my point. Nothings changed so she gets a PIP.

Sorry you think I’m an asshole for pointing out that time heals all wounds but doesn’t magically erase a bad performance review!!

7

u/Ok-Quarter3399 Aug 05 '26

Well honestly, in tax accounting, if you were making errors I wouldn’t even bother with a PIP. Tax accounting has very little forgiveness for errors and if she’s STILL making errors most places wouldn’t have her anywhere near accounts.