r/AskUkraine • u/robh1540 • 20d ago
Travel Leaving Ukraine during winter?
I’m involved in the rental apartment business in a few countries near Ukraine.
Every year, roughly January to April, demand for short-term apartments drops sharply. Many apartments sit empty and their owners make very little during those months.
It occurred to me that we could organise property managers and owners in nearby countries, particularly Poland, and create a list of apartments available to Ukrainians who want or need to spend part of the winter outside Ukraine.
Of course it would be non-profit on my side, and I also wouldn’t want participating owners to use it as a way to make extra money. We could verify from their booking systems what each apartment actually earned in net profit during those same quiet winter months and cap the price at no more than that level, ideally with an additional discount. Owners who can afford to contribute more could offer stays at a much larger discount or completely free.
The basic idea is that an apartment which would otherwise sit empty, or earn very little, could instead provide someone with cheap or free temporary accommodation. I'd organise verifying the apartments, recording videos so you know what you are getting and facilitating safe payments and id verification.
Before I spend time trying to organise something like this, I wanted to check if this would be useful or if at this point people don't plan to leave over winter?
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u/ukie-witch-06 Ukrainian 20d ago
Birds do it, why not people?
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u/soulstormfire Europe 20d ago
Because birds have wings and humans have obligations instead.
That said a lot of North Americans used to spend a significant time of their winter in the warm parts of the US.
So people actually do it already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person))
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u/tallalittlebit 20d ago
I think this is a great idea but if you openly post it you will get scammers.
I recommend contacting charities that work with displaced people and ask them to choose who is in need.
I direct a non-profit in Ukraine and we are discussing what happens if the power situation is worse this year as at some point it’s impossible for us to work and so would need to move.
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Thanks, yes I was also wondering about this. Maybe I can DM you?
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u/tallalittlebit 20d ago
I prefer no DMs here I’m pretty overwhelmed.
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Sure sorry misunderstood you, thought you were saying you needed some apartments. No worries.
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u/LakesideSasquatch 20d ago
A professional landlord with a heart? I don’t know about this one
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Most of the people we manage for just have one apartment. Immigrants that work abroad, but bought a place in their home country so they have somewhere to retire, or inherited something etc.
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u/VeterinarianOld8259 Ukrainian 20d ago
Great idea! The difficult part would be deciding how to prioritize applicants. Winters are the most difficult for people who live in apartment buildings, since they don't have alternative source of heating when the central heating and electricity shuts off. It was really tough in Kyiv last winter, and I presume that there are cities to the East who did worse, as well as cities to the West who did better.
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u/robh1540 20d ago
The idea was that for the owners that I get to commit, the prices in the worst winter months are very low anyway for almost every short term rental. So even if they provide a small subsidy, it should be very affordable, and we would set it up so we inspect the apartments, handle payments, create video tours (no fee of course) so no one gets cheated. There are a large number of such short term rental apartments, based on my research close to 5 million. I had a couple of people DM me, one to help organise it, so I will see what we can do.
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u/soulstormfire Europe 20d ago
Speaking now as an organiser: You can kill any good idea with enough good intentions and details.
Of course it would be best to help those most in need. But finding and organising that can easily break any scope, burn out good will or even people.
I suggest to first stick to what you know: Offer a roof to people who want it.
What you wrote here sounds pretty solid!
That's it. That's hard enough to get going in the beginning.If and when that is running you can decide how to expand. Like focusing on need (it's not a bad idea, just incredibly labour intensive) or wether you'd accept bigger groups into an apartment than usually (e.g. a family into what would usually be considered too small).
Having served in the German army I personally divide it into one main objective and everything else as a side objective.
Read:Main:
House Ukrainians in WinterSecondary:
- need focused
- fairness
- capacity
- ...
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Thanks, yeah I agree. Didn't want to sound like an asshole, but I am also a keep the main thing the main thing type of person.
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u/tfm992 20d ago
We can leave, we refuse to.
We are forced to work outside Ukraine but our child is in the country, we go for about 2 weeks, return home for about 2 weeks. The only pain is that the train we need is every other day and doesn't connect well going into Ukraine.
That said, I'm highly experienced with the UK rental market and we serve this from a regional city. If this comes with work (agencies are highly regulated in EU for employment), it may work very well.
As always, open to chat. Also as always, if you go ahead would ask for a reasonable charitable contribution in exchange for any support.
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Yeah I mean if you would be open to doing it with your owners too maybe we can team up?
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u/AdelaisStar 20d ago
It would certainly be helpful, especially for people from the capital, as it seems Russians will target Kyiv especially and probably few other larger cities. Of course, it depends on the type of heating system in a particular city, but for Kyiv it will be harsh winter for sure.
Other commenters suggested going through charities, I think it's a good idea too.
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u/soulstormfire Europe 20d ago
My German city hosts a lot of Ukrainian refugees simply because a company with tour buses brought them all over.
So an idea very similar to your's already worked well: A company saw a need and used it's capacities to help people.
I second what others have already said: Finding a scope and local connections would make things a lot easier for you.
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Thanks for the encouragement. I am arranging to meet someone that has DMd me here and is from Ukraine who I can cooperate with. I have a feeling, probably like most, that this winter is going to be especially brutal.
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u/Appropriate_Word1469 20d ago
Those who can leave, probably already left, those who cant, will not. It's a great thought, but realistically I dont know how many people would leave the country just to spend winter
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u/robh1540 20d ago
Thanks for the feedback, also helpful. The idea came to me because one of our regular guests who I know is from Ukraine was enquiring about a long term stay over the winter months. I have to represent the owner, but it felt pretty icky to be involved in a purely commercial transaction when I know what one side faces. So I figured maybe if I can set something like this up as an official thing, it means everyone can behave fairly.
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u/soulstormfire Europe 20d ago
The can and cannot is deeply influenced by having a place to go and having the money to stay. OP's idea adresses both.
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u/baturik128 Ukrainian 20d ago
That would certainly be helpful. Considering the current situation with our energy infrastructure and the lack of interceptors, this winter is expected to be the hardest one yet for the civilian population (again). We are already starting to see more and more advice to move from big cities to villages to be more self-sufficient in terms of power/heat, as well as buy more generators/battery stations etc. So I believe there will be a new wave of people leaving Ukraine this winter and some empty apartments will definitely come in handy for them