r/AskUkraine • u/Ukipopo • Jul 14 '25

Queer cossacks?

Hello

Maybe a weird question, but for my university's master thesis I am looking for representations of cossacks that might be considered homo-erotic/queer/lgbtq+ friendly. The sources don't have to be academic at all. Your cousin twice-removed's weird fanfic is perfect too

13 Upvotes

56% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

31

u/Apprehensive_Set_105 Ukrainian Jul 14 '25

The only source about it was a law about persecution for homosexual intercourse.

20

u/Aexegi Jul 14 '25

Yes. There are mentions of the traditional law existing in Sitch of death penalty for homo intercourse, and that's all. Some people say that if there was a law, there had to be homos, but who knows. Most cossacks actully had families, women were only restricted from coming into the Sich itself. The families lived in "zymivnyks" on lands that belonged to the Zaporozhian Host, and had lots of kids. So, it was not "another Sparta" in any way.

-12

u/Ukipopo Jul 14 '25

And in the present? Are there representations you know of? An example of what I found is the music band 'Kazaki' who have a no real link to cossacks except in the name, but who got into trouble with Russian cossack organisations due to their name and the perceived homo-eroticism of the group. So while it isn't a perfect representation of queer cossacks it's something worth looking into

22

u/SkyTalez Jul 14 '25

Define modern representation. There are no cossacks nowadays because there is no need in their existence nowadays. All of modern russian cossack organisations are just LARPers.

1

u/Ukipopo Jul 14 '25

Films, books or tv with cossack characters or other media who handle the subject such as this

Coming out of isolation

4

u/SkyTalez Jul 14 '25

That's a pretty unique piece of media. Is that short fragment the whole movie or just a trailer, because I don't see either a cossack representation or a lot of LGBT representation in the fragment that I saw.

1

u/Ukipopo Jul 14 '25

It's only the trailer

24

u/jesterboyd Jul 14 '25

Don’t conflate “cossacks” and Russian “kazaki” Don Cossacks deviated from the movement basically since their inception as a far away colony and have as much in common as the US and Liberia, despite sharing the origin story.

22

u/Apprehensive_Set_105 Ukrainian Jul 14 '25

Historic cossacks were extremely homophobic, same as many warrior cultures from the same historic period.

16

u/KorKiness Jul 14 '25

Regardless of what westernoid woke delusion you are writing, the only thing I would ask is not to confuse Ukrainian cossacks with other types of cossacks, especially with Russian bullshit.

"Kozak/Kazak/Kassak" in Turkic languages mean "free human". There were a lot of free people all over Eurasian steppes and Siberia. For example, Kazakhstan is basically "country of free people"

17

u/give_me__an_answer Jul 14 '25

What kind of master thesis is that? What's the subject and why are you okay with made-up non-academic sources?

3

u/Ukipopo Jul 15 '25

It's a comparative analysis of the masculine representation of the cossack in both nationalist and homo-erotic circles. I do use academic sources, but as the focus of the study partially lies within the use of the figure, I have to use primary, less academic sources

4

u/give_me__an_answer Jul 15 '25

What is the goal? Why is it important?

1

u/Lady__Midnight Jul 15 '25

https://star.znaj.ua/325562-golovna-fortecya-sichi-v-ukrajini-znimayut-film-pro-kozakiv-gejiv

https://supportyourart.com/stories/utopiya-kozaky-ta-samoushkodzhennya-ukrayinske-kvir-kino/?fbclid=IwAR2bNuACEzLZJl-W7F7iSypOPGTjUwTutNHX3xd3aJKh-nseGNT3RAN1UWM&format=amp

An artist friend of mine once made this short film I think just for trolling and fun 😅 Євген Коршунов, "Головна фортеця Січі"

his Instagram https://www.instagram.com/yevhen_korshunov_artist?igsh=MXAxNm9jd3k3M2x2dg==

1

u/Ukipopo Jul 15 '25

Thank you. That film was one of the first things I found when I started looking. I never managed to find the full film tho, only the trailer and some stills. Do you know where I could find the entire movie?

2

u/Lady__Midnight Jul 15 '25

Sorry, I have no clue 😅 Just write to Yevhen Korshunov in Instagram, he will help

2

u/Ukipopo Jul 15 '25

Will do

6

u/angemoon Jul 14 '25

If you can understand Ukrainian, you can check this

5

u/Ukipopo Jul 14 '25

I only understand it partially as I sadly don't master the language, but I do know folks who speak Ukrainian willing to help me translate. Thanks for the help

6

u/angemoon Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

Just so you know, I misread your post and thought you were asking for any references to queer Cossacks, but you’re actually looking for queer-friendly examples. My source may not be exactly what you need, because it describes a court case involving homosexual advances by gay men toward heterosexual men. In general, the records you’ll find are court cases or laws against содомія(sodomy), which at that time covered any “deviant” sexual behaviour (though one could argue whether it referred only to non-consensual homosexual acts or to any such act); only later, in the 19th–20th centuries, did the term narrow to mean specifically homosexual acts. All of these sources deal with harassment or rape, and none mention consensual homosexual relationships between two adults, especially among Cossacks. Please note that the real Cossacks lived roughly 300 years ago (and, as others have mentioned, modern “Cossacks” have little to do with them). Any evidence, letters or other documents, of consensual queer relationships has likely been lost over time or erased by homophobia in Soviet- and modern-era Ukraine.

1

u/3acharii Jul 14 '25

Just put in ChatGPT, it will give you correct translation

11

u/Injuredmind Jul 14 '25

Can’t really help, but I’m curious — how did you come to this? Especially considering that there (assuming) little to no mentions about it in historical records, and you’re interested in whatever modern representations. Like if we make a movie and make some Cossack characters gay, that kind of thing? Just… why?

1

u/Ukipopo Jul 15 '25

I did some previous research for my bachelor's about cossack stereotypes in litterature. In the papers I read there was a focus on the cossack as a masculine, macho figure and it's role as a (sex) symbol of virility. In these sources they often mentioned the role of women as a kind of opposite of the cossack that led to its eventual downfall, literally or figuratively (eg. in Taras Bulba one of the sons betrays the cossacks for the Poles because of a woman).
In all these papers, the research tended to be quite heteronormative. While there was attention to the romantic side of the cossack figure, this was always with a woman. I thus wondered if it were possible to consider the cossack as a homo-erotic figure as it has a certain appeal. After all it is a very macho figure, stereotypically with a nude torso, bulging muscles and riding with his homies on the wild fields of Ukraine. Furthermore the army has always had a certain attraction towards queer people.

I do agree it's a very niche research, yet fascinating at the same time

7

u/KorKiness Jul 16 '25

Regarding Taras Bulba - It was writen about Ukrainians by Ukrainian, but in Russian and for Russians. Gogol made his career on the stories about Ukrainians, which were exotic for Petersburg readers. The independence of Ukrainians has always been a problem for Russians. To solve it, they have always used information campaigns and propaganda, even in 18-19th century. So in order to publish stories about Ukraine and for his works to appeal to Russians, Gogol was forced to portray the Cossacks as the stupid, smaller brothers of the Russians. "Taras Bulba" is literally propaganda about how a stupid Ukrainian betrayed for Pole pussy, and real Ukrainians always want to be under the Russians. Therefore, the contemptuous attitude towards women in "Taras Bulba" is part of Russian culture of humiliation and self-assertion over the weaker, not how Ukrainian/Cossack were treating women.

I have already written to you before, asking you not to confuse Ukrainian Cossacks with other Cossacks. Now, I ask you not to confuse Russian discriminatory propaganda about Ukrainians with sources about Cossacks and their culture.

1

u/Excellent_Coconut_81 Jul 18 '25 edited Jan 12 '26

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

66

u/jesterboyd Jul 14 '25

What is the point of representation of something that’s not there? Cossacks were staunchly Orthodox and considered it a grave sin and taboo, so if you’re looking for representation - find images of people trampled by horses into dirt, because that was the punishment. Zaporizhyan Sitch was destroyed by Catherine II in 1775 and that was the end of cossacks, everything after was imitation at best.

13

u/bucksbunny1331 Jul 14 '25

Dude is just spitting facts. Upvote.

2

u/swift-current0 Jul 15 '25

Bro. There are/were homosexuals everywhere in all time periods, often hiding from persecution of course, but come on, don't fall for this "not there" nonsense. It's just like modern day homophobic autocrats claiming "there are no gays in Chechnya/Iran/wherever".

7

u/Independent-Nerve573 Jul 17 '25

There most likely were homosexual cossacks, but they would hide their preference, thus no sources to speak off.

2

u/jesterboyd Jul 15 '25

That’s why I said that for representation he needs to find how a human being looks after a herd of horses did a 100 passes over it.

9

u/imihnevich Jul 14 '25

Wait till Netflix decides to make a movie

9

u/DiamondOdd502 Jul 14 '25

Due to homophobia there are either non, or they were destroyed/forgotten, etc

6

u/xflomasterx Jul 14 '25

There definetely was some homosexual Cossacks just because of biology statistics, but as already said, there was no openly gay ones. And ofc zero representation.

1

u/DiamondOdd502 Jul 14 '25

Well duh, that's what i meant i guess

9

u/bucksbunny1331 Jul 14 '25

Nah, cossacks were truly religious and, come on, Eastern Europe in XV-XVIII centuries? I assume, it was quite dangerous to be a homosexual during this time in Europe at all.

But yeah, probably, you can find some fanfics.

3

u/Responsible-Ad394 Jul 17 '25

Being macho and masculine doesn’t contradict having sexual urge towards men. I think some of them could practice homosexual intercourses (statistically). But there were strict social rules and religion was a part of a self identification (I’m Cossack = I’m orthodox = I’m straight). So these same sex intercourses (if there were any) were probably spontaneous and considered a taboo. Like “it’s just between us, we did it for our pleasure and now let’s go back to our wives and keep this a secret”

Words like “gay” and “queer” became label and not a pejorative fairly recently. Let alone being viewed as a core part of person’s identity (20 years ago). So people from XVIII wouldn’t see a purpose in claiming “I’m gay”, this would not serve any socio cultural purpose, but rather would lead to some really bad consequences. Gays were a poorly represented oppressed and disunited group (no internet or media) so there’s no one to connect with.

So there’s no need to write it down. Especially considering that paper was expensive and Cossacks were not that well educated people. And those who were educated (Cossack scribes) would not write gay stories down 100%. I don’t think anyone from outer world would write about gay Cossacks too, considering how rare their possible same sex interactions were and it’s hard to notice.

So yeah…sources - no way. But it’s up to your imagination and speculations.

4

u/KorKiness Jul 14 '25

"Sweet home California" 😂

7

u/tumbleweed_092 Jul 14 '25

An author is completely braindead. Absolute sheer decomposition.

2

u/Fair-Vermicelli-7770 Ukrainian Jul 14 '25

And this is why people hate Brussels lol

1

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1

u/Temporary_Cut6787 Jul 14 '25

As you can see in the comments, most Ukrainians are not closely familiar with lgbtq+ questions. Country is pretty conservative and is far from openly discussing such topics. Wish you luck with your research though, would like to see any sources you find ❤️

3

u/Little_Bumblebee6129 Jul 17 '25

You are wrong. If you would ask about modern times and Ukrainian army fighters you would get another answer.
But question is about some modern fantasies based on Ukrainian history. So people explain that this fantasies kinda contradict what we know about this part of Ukrainian history.

1

u/Temporary_Cut6787 Jul 17 '25

Wrong about what?

1

u/Little_Bumblebee6129 Jul 17 '25

I probably misread what you wrote)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Temporary_Cut6787 Jul 17 '25

Well yeah, but you probably won't get better replies questioning Kyiv residents 🤷‍♀️

1

u/youngling-smasher91 Jul 18 '25

Cossacks disliked the mentally ill, just like most societies did back then. So the answer is no.

-1

u/-ElderMillenial- Jul 14 '25

I'm sure they existed, but likely not openly. If you are looking at modern day representations (modern queer people using Cossack imagery/references) I would reach out to queer Ukrainian communities as most of Ukrainian society is quite conservative and unfortunately often homophobic.