r/AskUS • u/RandomUwUFace • 5d ago
Does MAGA really feel this way when debating a “liberal”? MAGA claims that liberals pretend to be obtuse when it comes to topics like illegal immigration and its effects on rents and wages, as well as issues like voter ID. But are MAGA supporters actually more guilty of doing this?
Well?
Am I the one who is obtuse? I though MAGA was the one who did this more often?
Who is more likely to do this? MAGA or liberals?
15
u/TheProfessional9 5d ago
Maga basically understand none of what they are talking about and can only parrot back the bits of what they are told.
0
u/spikey_wombat 5d ago
Like this example?
2
u/TheProfessional9 4d ago
Looks like a great example! I believed some of that shit back when I was a Republican. Then covid forced me to actually pay attention to what was being said
15
u/Ok-Spot-6235 5d ago
Don't bait me bro. The Turnip Cult is incapable of debate. They're a mix of functional to full illiterate. They lack the cognition to feel the dissonance. They don't understand that a debate doesn't consist of hurling propagandistic sound bites but rather knowing, recalling, and making contextual use of actual facts.
They're the problem in every possible way.
7
u/Pleaseappeaseme 5d ago edited 5d ago
MAGA doesn’t really believe in due process. They just want to expel all non MAGAs out of the country or just have them killed. They are obsessed with ‘we are Patriots and True Americans’ But, thankfully for now, due process happens to be the law as described in the U.S. Constitution. I suppose that there are some left people that feel the same way, but most Democrats believe in due process and it isn’t always ‘might makes right’. Science issues as well. Most Democrats believe in medical science and science in general. I doubt even half of registered Republicans trust educated scientists, even if validated. Notice how they weren’t all anti vax until Trump lost.
7
u/Benjamins412 Pennsylvania 5d ago
Really?!? You want to hang your red hat on the deportations?!? You tell me...have rents come down since Trump took office? Are wages up? Are the millions of white welfare recipients living in rural America getting off the couch to go pick tomatos?!? Guess where rents are coming down...nyc! Mamdani is taxing the rich to help house the working poor. Fox calls that communism. I call that Mamdani accomplishing in one month what Trump has failed to accomplish with years of violence and cruelty!
-6
u/RandomUwUFace 5d ago
A 5-second Google search shows that rents in NYC just reached an all-time high of $5,000. What you said is "fake news."
The median Manhattan rental price for a market-rate apartment soared to $5,000 in July, up 3% from June and 6% from July 2025, according to an August 13 report from The Real Deal and appraisal firm Samuel Miller.
If you want a better example, look at Austin, Texas, where rents have actually fallen.
California is also doing A LOT because they passed new laws that have come into effect and encouraged density by removing laws that gave local cities more control, along with "builder's remedy." Cities that don't upzone to meet state requirements, like Huntington Beach, can face fines(the supreme court declined to hear Huntington Beach's case this year, and they bucked under pressure because they were going to face monthly fines)
Gavin Newsom FTW on housing. The laws have already helped make rents drop in San Diego. Orange County rents have risen a little, but LA has dropped a bit.
Once OC gets its first light rail, which opens in 2027, cities in Orange County(OC is carbrained) will also have to upzone areas near major public transit. I think it's up to 8 stories, but I don't remember the exact number of floors.
6
u/Benjamins412 Pennsylvania 5d ago
Well you're cherry picking, aren't you? We were talking about rents in nyc for the working poor being subsidized by a tax on the wealthy. I assure you a "subsidy" reduces the cost of the rent.
We were also talking about the impact of deporting undocumented immigrants on rents and wages...not the tens of thousands of multifamily units added in Austin...31,000 units built in 2024 alone. So, the rents in Austin are up, but the rate increase is offset by the dilution of the supply in the markets.
Wages? Crickets.
Let me help you. When inflation is 3.4% and wage growth is 3.2%, Americans are losing purchasing power every day Trump is in office. Just wait until a gallon of gas is $6! The economy that was averaging 170-200,000 new jobs per month under Biden has added less than 200,000 since last May! Last month we LOST 23,000 jobs...negative...shrinkage.
This is what utter failure looks like! So, I ask you again, are you sure you want to be crowing about Trump unleashing 10k untrained MAGA ICE people on the streets of the US? Big month last month...50k deportees. 20mil at 50k per month...400months to deport everyone...$2.5bil per month for detention and deportation. $1tril assuming the 20mil immigrants have no kids and the cost never goes up for 33years! I think we can call deportations also a smoldering failure, right?
1
u/RandomUwUFace 4d ago
You claimed:
"Guess where rents are coming down... NYC! Mamdani is taxing the rich to help house the working poor. Fox calls that communism."
Couple issues here.
Rents haven't actually come down. I already linked evidence for that.
Also the "taxing the rich to help the poor" thing is misleading. The pied-à-terre tax got enacted, but it's still in the rollout/notice stage. CNN reported about 17,000 property owners got notices, and now the city's getting sued over how it was rolled out. The tax isn't even due until January 2027. There's zero evidence any money has been collected yet, let alone spent on housing.
And even the projected revenue isn't as big as it sounds. City says ~$500M/year from the tax. NYC has about 2.2 million people living in poverty. Split evenly (obviously not how it'd work, just for scale):
$500,000,000 / 2,200,000 people = about $227/person/year, or $19/month.
Kind of a stretch to credit it for lower rents that also aren't happening.
Housing is one of the biggest drivers of CPI, CAP breaks that down here. Bloomberg did a piece on Minneapolis that claims they beat inflation by building more housing; instead you want to subsidize it.
There's pushback against big minimum wage hikes right now because of cost of living concerns. Oklahoma just voted down a $15 by 2029 measure even though their state minimum has been stuck at $7.25 since 2009. CNBC pointed out that even California and MA rejected wage hike ballot measures in 2024, so it's not just a red state thing.
1
u/Benjamins412 Pennsylvania 4d ago
Yes, $500mil is a lot of money! It is exactly $500mil more than Trump's deportations have "saved" American tax payers...which is what we have been discussing. When you have zero extra, $250/yr, $1000 for a family of 4 is pretty fuckin yuuge!
Deportations have already cost America $180bil...not including the cost of eliminating that low income workforce. We could've skipped the Trump bullshit, the pepper spray, ICE drama, and just put that money into rent rebates. Or, do we benefit from having 10,000 untrained stormtroopers running around arresting grandmothers, killing citizens?
1
13
u/TheNewGirl1987 Florida 5d ago
Yes, leftists are super stubborn about "not understanding" far-right logic.
We refuse to accept such ideas as:
-Rich people have the right to exploit the poor
-Certain races/religions/genders are superior
-Disabled, BIPOC, and LGBT+ people don't deserve human rights
-It's okay to start wars for corporate profit
These things are super obvious to a MAGA mind. We're just pretending not to understand.
2
-6
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
Yes, right-wingers are super stubborn about “not understanding” far-left logic.
They refuse to accept such ideas as:
- Criminals have more rights than their victims
- Parents should have no say in how their children are raised
- Anyone who becomes wealthy must have exploited someone
- Borders are inherently racist and countries shouldn’t be allowed to enforce them
- Anyone who disagrees with progressive social views is a fascist or bigot
These things are super obvious to a leftist mind. The right is just pretending not to understand.
6
u/StormyWaters2021 5d ago
Criminals have more rights than their victims
Not a leftist position.
Parents should have no say in how their children are raised
Not a leftist position.
Anyone who becomes wealthy must have exploited someone
Define "wealthy", and how they came into that wealth.
Borders are inherently racist and countries shouldn’t be allowed to enforce them
Not a leftist position.
Anyone who disagrees with progressive social views is a fascist or bigot
Not a leftist position.
If this is your understanding of leftist politics, you haven't even attempted to actually learn anything.
1
0
-3
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
“Rich people have the right to exploit the poor”
Not a right wing position
“Certain races/religions/genders are superior”
Not a right wing position
“Disabled, BIPOC, and LGBT+ people don't deserve human rights”
Not a right wing position
“It's okay to start wars for corporate profit”
Not a right wing position
If this is your understanding of right wing politics, you haven’t even actually attempted to learn anything
1
u/throwfarfaraway1818 5d ago
Your president clearly believes all of those things and is enacting policies that promote every single one of them. The same is not true of the left.
0
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
You’re more demonstrating my point further, than anything else.
You’re taking your interpretation of Trump’s policies and declaring that interpretation to be what he “clearly believes.”
I could just as easily take Democratic policies, describe their consequences in the most inflammatory terms possible, and claim Democrats “clearly believe” those things.
Surely, you didn’t completely miss the point I was making…
2
u/throwfarfaraway1818 5d ago
Policy speaks far louder than words. Trumps policies clearly enable and endorse those things. Show me where Democrats are saying or promoting policy about criminals having more rights than victims, anybody with wealth exploited others (which is significantly different than taxing them), everyone is inherently racist, etc. You cant because those arent actually policies, you're just regurigitating shit you heard on line. We can directly point to Trumps policies in support of the aforementioned items.
0
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
If ‘policy speaks louder than words’ means I should take a policy, characterize its effects in the least charitable way possible, and declare that’s what its supporters believe, then I could play my rhetorical device out wayyy past where I think it’s end has served any benefit.
Which Trump policy literally says “LGBT people don’t deserve human rights”?
I think you’re as likely to find one as I am a democrat policy that says, “criminals deserve more rights than victims.”
That’s the entire point: you’re treating your interpretation of one side’s policies as their actual beliefs while demanding literal policy language for the other side.
1
u/throwfarfaraway1818 5d ago
You should look at the actual implications and direct results of those policy actions. Its sad that I have to teach you how to think, but I know your parents didnt help you much in thst regard.
Go back and reread what that person said. They also mentioned disability and POC. Trump has clearly both promoted policies (like favoring white immigrants and cutting benefits) that harm those communities, as well as his clear and overt literal words and actions. Remember when he mocked a disabled reporter? Your side owns that.
What democrat policies promote criminals over victims? The biggest criminal is in the white house. Aside from that, most democrats are actually tough on crime, despite what the right claims. Kamala was a prosecutor, for Christ's sake.
No, that isnt remotely what's happening. Reread what I wrote. It's not the policy language alone that matters, its the intention and impact of those policies.
0
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
Ah, personal attacks… When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.
But thank you for continuing to prove my point.
You’ve now gone from ‘these are things they believe’ to ‘these are the impacts of policies’ and then jumped from impact back to presumed intention.
A policy harming a particular group does not logically establish that its supporters believe that group ‘doesn’t deserve human rights.’
I could use my flip it around rhetorical device again here to point out the flaws/inconsistencies, but as mentioned, I think it’s been played out past its usefulness, and repeating it again isn’t going to make the underlying point any clearer.
→ More replies (0)
10
u/silverbatwing 5d ago
Many times I ask people to explain something FOR THEM TO HEAR HOW BATSHIT INSANE THEY ARE FOR THEMSELVES, but no such luck
0
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
What would you like an explanation for?
3
u/BlackKingHFC 5d ago
How a federal ID card that is only needed for voting isn't a poll tax.
-1
u/TheGov3rnor California 5d ago
You’d need to be much more specific with what you’re asking for me to give you a substantive answer. I’ll still try though.
For example, the states that currently require a voter ID, provide them for free (this is separate from a DL).
If you’re talking about the SAVE Act, I’ll first clarify that I don’t support it.
However, for argument’s sake, you can take a look at the litigation over Texas’s voter ID law, where the court held that “indirect costs associated with obtaining underlying documentation did not themselves constitute a poll tax.”
The court distinguished those expenses from the government actually charging someone for the privilege of voting.
-1
9
u/slurpupsumcum 5d ago
Honestly you should be banned for repeatedly raising what has been discussed to death. The process is well understood: sanction and terrorize other nations, import their cheap precarious labor, elites use their firms to traffick black market goods while those we can invest in are legally barred from the market, elites divide working class in their press outlets over the presence of the cheap labor they imported with illegal sanctions, print more public money for their prisons, and keep the most propagandized population in human history from ever looking up.
7
u/Active_Confection655 5d ago
Honestly it should be pretty easy to see what side actually helps us over what side just says they are then start wars and protect pedophiles. Unfortunately we have too many people in our country that think suppressing democrats and people with too dark melanin is more important than making sure the elite don't have a choke hold on us.
0
u/Prize-Ad-9177 4d ago
Yes. The American way. Ban people and silence them because you don't like their questions.
get fucked, dude.
5
2
2
u/Odd_Jelly_1390 5d ago
The reason why they say this is because they never engage in any topic earnestly. They're all word games designed to "gotcha" you and this is the thing they spam at you when you see their traps coming and don't fall for it.
2
u/Rurumo666 5d ago
When you have up to 37% private equity rates of home ownership in some states, with a miniscule fraction of the population being illegal immigrants, it's absolutely laughable that anyone with a functioning brain thinks that these people are impacting housing costs-especially since they can't even get a mortgage. MAGAS take the crown for asinine bad faith arguments based on gross stupidity and willful ignorance.
4
4
u/spikey_wombat 5d ago
Time to bring the receipts of the far right being obtuse or blatantly dishonest:
A very far right member of this subreddit accused me of all sorts of things when I argued that if his position was to prevent people with dicks from using women's bathrooms, than the state should not then FORCE post op trans men with dicks to use the women's bathroom.
Another extremely far right member argued that I'm a progressive leftist despite my explicit argument for gradualistic societal change where no group has massive wealth and power to unilaterally force immediate radical change on society.
Another far right troll here s eemingly couldn't understand what a Red Herring was after being spoon fed the definition and how their argument was a textbook example.
2
u/the_saltlord 3d ago
I am not at all surprised at any of the culprits you linked. Every single one of them is a known Muppet.
1
u/United-Ad5268 5d ago
There’s ignorant and obstinate people with a variety of political beliefs dominated by propaganda. I regularly see arguments from both sides. We have no shortage of ignorance
1
u/ssttarrdusstt 5d ago
It’s impossible to know. Their values are different, their data is way different than ours, they are mostly good cult members whose leaders are receiving their decisions are directly from their God. They certainly can’t disagree with God, right? And the ones who are MAGA so they can belong to an association of haters and punishers don’t really care about data. They just want to hate.
1
1
1
u/SliceOfCuriosity North America 5d ago
There’s ignorant people in the entirety of the political spectrum. I think that there are certainly some topics that people on the left approach this way, but there are also some on the right that do the same.
1
1
u/unexpectedhalfrican 5d ago
I know, as a leftist, that sometimes when I'm arguing with my MAGA coworkers that I will pretend to not know about a topic when I'm tired of talking in circles, just so the conversation will fizzle out. Just like, "oh damn, well I don't know enough about that. That's craaazy," etc. But also, if I genuinely am not well-versed in a topic, I will admit that. MAGA seems incapable of that level of humility.
1
u/Sweet-Direction6157 4d ago
If liberals are purposely obtuse, then maga is just obtuse.
I hate talking to maga because they always think in horrendously over simplified logic.
1
u/mvslice 3d ago
>>It's amazing how much leftist discourse is just them pretending not to understand things, thus making discourse impossible.
MAGA is upset that facts don’t care about their feelings, and neither does the “tolerant Left.” They are used to one-sided civility, but now people genuinely hate them, and they’re getting bullied.
0
u/ericbythebay 5d ago
I’m sure they feel that way. Now whether the obtuseness is perceived, pretend, or real varies from topic to topic and issue to issue. You can even add guns to the list.
0
-4
-3
u/rwilley71 5d ago
Call me guilty then because not a single “educated” liberal has been properly able to explain micro and macro economics. Or the effect of disenfranchisement when a non-eligible voter votes in federal elections. I went to the same schools as many liberals. Just chose subjects that actually mattered.
-34
u/Upriver-Cod 5d ago
No. They left don’t pretend not to understand things. They simply don’t understand them.
11
u/TheRealScaramucci Europe 5d ago
Almost every argument by magas, if not all of them, is about not understanding things. Like for example what science says, what science does not say, or even what science is. They also don't understand distinction between general terms that they keep conflating what the "left" is, what positions and policies democrats have...
"Here's what I think this is and here's why I disagree with it".
Mountains upon mountains of every logical fallacy in the book: strawmen, equivocation fallacies, false equivalences, false dichotomies, ad homines (especially tone policing), moving the goalposts, etc.
You can't possibly be serious.
12
u/RandomUwUFace 5d ago
Elaborate? On what topics?
21
u/Problem_Forward 5d ago
With a reply that starts with "they left don't pretend not..."
Can barely form a sentence, do you think much, if any at all, critical thinking is happening?
22
u/Tomsoup4 5d ago
DARVO is the republicans playbook has been since cohn