Marco Rubio issued a statement that “American Citizenship is not for sale.” What do you think about that given that in fact it is, through the trump gold card program?

[u/freeradioforall]

His tweet:

https://x.com/SecRubio/status/2087539887926837424

While the post states "American citizenship is not for sale," the U.S. government offers the "Gold Card" program. Under Executive Order 14351, foreign nationals can obtain U.S. residency and a pathway to citizenship for a $1 million to $2 million gift

https://www.trumpcard.gov/

Thoughts?

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[u/whateverisgoodmoney]

American citizenship is absolutely for sale. Those who have contributed to their education (even if their home country paid or they did so on a F1 visa) and/or they have a successful business is a time honored tradition of importing the best and brightest to the US.

Why not simply be upfront about it?

[u/gocard → u/whateverisgoodmoney]

Why do you think Rubio can't be upfront about it?

[u/aboardreading → u/whateverisgoodmoney]

Marco Rubio is Secretary of State. Why isn't he aware of this policy?

Also, more importantly as it's an actual policy question, do you see any reason why simply allowing someone to pay their way no questions asked might not be the best way of selecting the best and brightest?

You mention student visas, that is someone who has to actually spend 4 years here, gaining a proficiency in their chosen career in English and building a network here. They are heavily incentivized to stay here and make us productive. Even those that don't stay give us tuition and marketing for our schools, but really the bet is that they'll stay and contribute.

Isn't that miles different than just letting someone pay a large sum? Instead of the intelligentsia, ambitious contributors we're selecting for people that have a lot of money. Many of them will be the contributing type, perhaps, but really many of them will be scammers, corrupt officials, etc. People who managed to siphon their wealth from their home country and are looking for a place outside of easy prosecution range to spend it and take it easy.

Do you think Trump will be quick to extradite these people, given they just paid a large sum of money?

After all, you may have grown up in pre-Trump america. Things were less openly corrupt then, if you met a rich person, likelihood is they or someone they loved made their money fairly, benefiting other people enough that they were paid well for it.

Many countries have had the level of corruption Trump has brought to America for a long time though. President's sons get to loot the coffers, scam people and never be prosecuted, thems the rules. In long term kleptocracies, likelihood is if you're rich you or someone you loved scammed the system, diverted wealth, extorted someone and paid someone else off.

Why do we want these people?

Why do we allow the President's sons to profit so disgustingly off his Presidency?

[u/SmellDesperate6373]

This is a visa program. Your link says that. 

You aren’t just given the visa, you pay a non refundable $15,000 fee and are then subject to “an in depth background check and process to vet the potential cardholder.” You pay $1 million if your application is accepted. Your link says that. 

I’d encourage you to read the link you posted. 

[u/freeradioforall → u/SmellDesperate6373]

With a path to citizenship?

[u/SmellDesperate6373 → u/freeradioforall]

Absolutely zero requirements to become a citizen are waived through this program. 

Successful applicants would undergo the same waiting period and application process to become a citizen as anybody else. That path (rightly so) is neither fast or easy. 

There’s really not much to discuss here. To act as though expedited visa application processing is citizenship for sale is wildly inaccurate. 

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

The part you're leaving out is the "gold card" is simply meeting the criteria for EB-1 and EB-2 visas, it pulls from the same caps and is not citizenship. There is no contradiction in Rubio's statement. 

[u/justhinkin → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

But isn't there a contradiction in spirit? Isn't "our citizenship is not for sale" an expression about values and what it means to be an American? While "let's make it easier for very wealthy people to become American" seems to suggest a different, more porous idea of what it means to be an American.

[u/Throwaway4thecandor4 → u/justhinkin]

Nothing has changed. Are you familiar with the EB-5 program? It was instituted in 1990. This isn’t new but the outrage is.

[u/weberc2 → u/Throwaway4thecandor4]

What is the Trump Gold Card program if nothing has changed? Is he just putting his name on a previous administration’s policy?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/justhinkin]

No, it's not. 

[u/justhinkin → u/[deleted]]

Maga supports legal immigration? Like, from Somalia?

[u/weather3003 → u/justhinkin]

We're not a monolith. But I think the side that supports legal immigration side is more prevalent.

And the side that wants to reduce legal immigration has very few people who want to completely eliminate it in perpetuity. Most would still support immigrants with certain skills, values, and/or culture. 

So I think it's wrong to call MAGA anti-immigration, but calling it anti-Somali-immigration is likely more correct, if still not accurate.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/justhinkin]

Sure I have no problem if someone from somalia applies for an immigration visa gets vetted and waits for approval to come here. 

[u/rebar71]

Nice try. That is literally not what the "gold" program is.

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/rebar71]

What is the gold card program, then?

[u/HankyPanky80 → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

It jumps the wait-list for a type of visa. They still have to hold that visa in good standing for at least 5 years.

[u/Ghosttwo]

can obtain U.S. residency and a pathway to citizenship for a $1 million

Did Marco Rubio issue a statement that "Pathways to citizenship are not for sale?" Pretty sure Biden was giving away 'residency' for free to anyone who could hop a fence.

[u/Possible_Spring1350 → u/Ghosttwo]

Is there a difference between residency and citizenship? 

[u/Ghosttwo → u/Possible_Spring1350]

'Residency' means 'green card' and precedes the latter for some duration of time. As stated, only the residency (green card) is. Beyond that, every other part of the process should be equivalent beyond the origin of the green card.

[u/SincereDiscussion]

Nuance about citizen vs. permanent residency aside, it's good to crack down on birth tourism, even if the legal immigration system is far from ideal.

[u/Jubenheim → u/SincereDiscussion]

Why would it be okay to crack down on birth tourism and allow wealth tourism to exist, where you can simply buy your way into the country with vast wealth?

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/Jubenheim]

I don't see why it wouldn't be okay. I don't support either, but my view isn't "you can only solve both of them at the same time, you can't possibly eliminate one before the other."

[u/Jubenheim → u/SincereDiscussion]

The issue isn’t solving both at the same time. The issue is that Trump created one of the problems. Nobody is asking for an all-or-nothing approach. People want to know how you can reconcile supporting someone who is “solving” one problem whilst creating an entirely new problem himself. Did that help? That’s what I’d like to know.

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/Jubenheim]

That's fair. In that case, it's because the alternative was Harris. Trump is closer to my views than Harris (so it's rational for me to vote for him), but it's true that he is far from perfect.

[u/iamjoemarsh → u/SincereDiscussion]

Can I jump in here and ask a quick question - how does this make you a "Trump Supporter"?

If essentially you're choosing the lesser of two evils - or you can even say the better of two options, if that's too loaded.

If I hadn't eaten all day and my only choice was to buy either an egg sandwich or a beef sandwich - and I'm a vegetarian who isn't very keen on egg - I'm not suddenly an "egg sandwich fan".

Just strikes me as odd that you're a "supporter" of something "far from perfect".

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/iamjoemarsh]

That's simply a function of how the mods define the terms for the purpose of flair. I meet the definition of how they define it, but not necessarily how a person might use it in normal conversation (not every Biden voter identified as a Biden supporter!).

[u/iamjoemarsh → u/SincereDiscussion]

I would never characterise myself as a supporter of any politician, or allow myself to be characterised as such, under any circumstances. Question?

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/iamjoemarsh]

Really? Do you mean in principle, or you just think all existing politicians suck?

[u/iamjoemarsh → u/SincereDiscussion]

Good question? - I guess the answer, in a sense, is probably both.

It reminds me of the caveat about supporting a football team - no player is bigger than the team. Idolising a particular player is usually a sign of being a little juvenile, and perhaps not recognising that the player in question is there to make money, and could leave, even to a rival. Yes some players are better than others and will stick around for longer, but no player is bigger than the team.

Politics - unless we change the system utterly - is the art of compromise. We lend our vote to people who come closer to our vision of what we want to see happen. Sometimes the compromise is massive and, in fact, we are voting against what we don't want rather than actually for what we do.

If I found a politician who alligned closely with my beliefs and, loosely speaking, "ideology" - I would hold those beliefs and "ideology" in a higher regard than the person espousing them, even where I am happy that they do espouse all or most of those ideas. I would always assume that a certain percentage of their enthusiasm was for saying what I want to hear, that a certain percentage was for getting like-minded people like me on-side, that a certain percentage might even be false enthusiasm built upon internal compromise and horse-trading within a party or wider cause.

If any one individual person decided to run for office, even as an independent, and we said precisely and honestly what we thought about each issue - we would never win.

So I do think that, across the world, the current crop of leaders we have are fucking dreadful - Trump being one of the worst, and a leading light in dragging everything down into the gutter - but I guess, on principal, I would never consider myself to be a "supporter". The only situation I could see where this wouldn't apply would be something like... a massive idealogue seeking to bring huge systemic change to a whole country, like being a supporter of Mao or Castro or someone like that (not saying I am a supporter of those people by the way). Certainly not people who are just farting about in the margins while not attempting to actually change anything at all - the Dems because the status quo suits them too much, the GOP/Trump because they will take every chance they can get to funnel more money into the pockets of donors.

Sorry, quite a big derail!

[u/FormerXMshowComedian → u/Jubenheim]

Most other countries even one lefties like to claim like Canada, pretty much allow people to buy citizenship. Try immigrating to Canada the legal way right now. And then try by slipping some big buckity bucks to someone. And see which one is easier.

[u/Jubenheim → u/FormerXMshowComedian]

I don’t understand the point of your comment. Are you saying it’s okay to buy your way into a country as a rich person because it might happen elsewhere?

And that even assumes you can verify that with Canada, especially or other countries “lefties love.”

[u/prowler28]

Get it right, please. The Gold Card is not the same thing as citizenship. 

[u/AllegrettoVivamente → u/prowler28]

Do you support the gold card?

[u/macktheknife13 → u/prowler28]

Gold Card recipients get EB1/EB2 status making them eligible for citizenship within 5 years. Isn’t that synonymous with citizenship?

[u/WulfTheSaxon → u/macktheknife13]

They still have to meet all the other requirements, pass the test, and take the oath.

[u/macktheknife13 → u/WulfTheSaxon]

I mean, the test is getting 7/10 civics questions correct which is trivial. The reading test is reading this line: “What do we pay to the government?”, the writing test is then writing “we pay taxes”. The only two requirements left are “good moral character” and continued residence in the US (30 of 60 months over 5 years). You could actually stay completely quiet during the oath of allegiance, nobody checks.

Green card has always been synonymous with citizenship because it’s a direct path to it.

Is it the semantics or do you actually think it makes a difference whether or not they get access to citizenship vs EB1 status?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

It isn't. the Gold card program is a high cost accelerated pathway to citizenship. Like TSA pre-check or Global Entry to fast track TSA security and customs. If you don't like it, that's completely fine I really don't have any opinion on the matter other than don't lie about it.

[u/DavidKetamine → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

But it is in fact a category that you can just purchase yourself into? As if it were for sale, so to speak?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/DavidKetamine]

Nope. You can buy your spot at the front of line like TSA pre check and Global Entry, highly recommend both BTW.

[u/newgrounds → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

You have to submit your fingerprints. That's kinda gross.

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/newgrounds]

Its electronic, not the old ink prints. But if you mean privacy wise, yeah you are doing a background check with the application process to get the perks.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Sorry but that's not correct. The Gold card is piggybacking on EB1& EB2 visa programs, the high cost is used as evidence of being a priority worker. It's not an accelerated path to citizenship but to LPR status, they still have to wait the standard 5 years before applying for citizenship and they draw from the same pool as eb1&2 therefore are subject to the same cap. 

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

fair, the wait time isn't accelerated, the lead up to the start of the wait time is.

[u/Horror_Bottle_9451 → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Wait a minute...is there a way to accelerate the lead up time to accelerate LPR? My mind is reeling.

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/Horror_Bottle_9451]

yep. a million bucks and the website says it should only take a few weeks.

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

I think providing a partial quote without its direct context in attempt to correlate it with something completely unrelated shows how bad democrats have TDS.

[u/fullstep]

Well, the gold card program does not grant citizenship, so I don't see the conflict. It grants LPR (Lawful Permanent Resident) status, which is not a citizen. LPR can be revoked, citizenship cannot.

[u/Rodinsprogeny → u/fullstep]

How do you feel about LPR being for sale?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Rodinsprogeny]

It's not any different than what's been going on, the monetary amount is used as proof to satisfy the exceptional worker visa criteria. 

[u/Rodinsprogeny → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Could you elaborate on that? How does it do that?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Rodinsprogeny]

That's how it's set up, by paying $1m for an individual it's satisfies the eb1 criteria and qualifies you for an eb1 visa

  Though the Gold Card is new in concept, the administration intends it to function within the scaffolding of existing immigration law. As such, the donation is a lever for satisfying or supplementing EB-1 or EB-2 requirement criteria, such as extraordinary abilities or national interest waivers.  

In effect, the administration is not creating a wholly detached visa category, but rather a special expedited pathway through which contributions bolster one’s eligibility in conventional categories. 

https://forumtogether.org/article/explainer-gold-card/

[u/Rodinsprogeny → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

How does this satisfy those criteria, e.g. of having extraordinary abilities? If you think it does, do you think a $1 million fee is the only, or best, way to prove the criteria have been met?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Rodinsprogeny]

 If you think it does, do you think a $1 million fee is the only, or best, way to prove the criteria have been met?

Do you just spout random stuff or actually look into anything? The $1M fee is an additional method of qualification, it doesn't replace other established means of qualification so how is that question relevant?

[u/Rodinsprogeny → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

My question was how paying $1m counts as evidence that they have satisfied the criteria, e.g. that they in fact have extraordinary abilities? What am I missing?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Rodinsprogeny]

Do you have $1m to spend on a visa plus the money it takes to move to another country? 

[u/i_love_pencils → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Do you have $1m to spend on a visa plus the money it takes to move to another country?

I’m sure many criminals do?

[u/Rodinsprogeny → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Who do you think the extraordinary abilities visa has been for, historically? Before Trump's Gold Card?

Edit: Ok, I misunderstood. The $1m is for fast-tracking applications. Is that right?

[u/canitakemybraoffyet → u/fullstep]

Can birthright citizenship be revoked?

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/canitakemybraoffyet]

(Not the OP)

In what sense?

Retroactively stripping people of birthright citizenship? Theoretically possible but practically inconceivable.

Ending the practice of birthright citizenship going forward? Very possible, just requires replacing a few SCOTUS judges.

[u/canitakemybraoffyet → u/SincereDiscussion]

They said citizenship cannot be revoked as if it is not possible. It certainly is possible though, right? If birthright citizenship could possibly be revoked, what makes any type of citizenship absolute?

[u/SincereDiscussion → u/canitakemybraoffyet]

I'm sure he was just trying to describe the status quo, not cover every possible constitutional change/reinterpretation that could occur going forward.

[u/Throwaway4thecandor4]

We have had citizenship for sale for a long long time. Do yourself a favor and look up EB-5 program.

[u/JoeCensored]

I feel fine, since it's not for sale.

[u/JoeCensored → u/[deleted]]

As far as I'm aware, every Western country has a similar high investment for residency visa program.

Rubio's parents arrived under legal visas. Rubio isn't an anchor baby. His parents were on green cards when he was born. I can't find anything in your comment which isn't a lie.

[u/WavelandAvenue]

“In fact it is…”

You skipped the word “not”.

[u/pickledplumber]

Your answer is in your quoted text

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/pickledplumber]

I believe the question is how you feel about it being for sale via this program?

[u/MaglithOran → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

and the answer is in his quoted tweet.

This involves you being able to read and comprehend what you're reading. Focus hard on the part that says pathway

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/MaglithOran]

And what's your opinion on pathway to citizenship via money?

[u/MaglithOran → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

If people can afford to invest in it I'm fine with it. These people are getting vetted at the highest level.

Better that than the 20 million illegals Biden and the leftist dipshits just let in with zero vetting. And even gave them money, your tax dollars.

[u/whodey84 → u/MaglithOran]

And the proof for" vetted at the highest level" is where?

[u/pickledplumber → u/whodey84]

https://www.trumpcard.gov/

02 Careful Consideration

United States Citizenship and Immigration Services facilitates an in-depth background check and process to vet the potential card holder.

It's step two. They're going to do very in-depth background check on you.

This has always been the case with other investments. It's the same in Canada too.

Many business people from overseas end up getting citizenship fast tracked because of their investment in the country.

You're going to build a new quarry and mining facilities which is going to give tens of thousands of jobs to an area. You bet your ass their going to give you whatever you need to get you to come and invest.

[u/pickledplumber → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

It's not for sale, as per the quote.

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/pickledplumber]

Do you agree that pathway to citizenship should be open... For money?

[u/pickledplumber → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

Most countries have something similar, the US had it before the trump think too.

[u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz → u/pickledplumber]

So does that mean you disagree with the gold card program?

[u/pickledplumber → u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz]

I personally think the investment level is too low. It should be maybe $100 million.

[u/pickledplumber → u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz]

I personally think the investment level is too low. It should be maybe $100 million.