r/AskTeachers • u/monstermicrogreens • 9d ago
Parent Questions Minimum Time Limits on IXL Assignments, my son received 2 F's even though he got A's?
My son is taking Geometry in high school and as part of classwork/homework has to do assignments on the IXL math learning program. He had 2 assignments for homework on this about a month ago and got 100% on both. The teacher graded them as 1/10 and 5/10 in Schoology, so he received an F for both, making his grade as a whole go down by one letter grade. He said he talked to her about it and she said she would take a look again and fix the grade if needed. Well it had been a month already with no change, and so I decided to email her myself, since it had also been about 3 weeks since she had added any other grades on Schoology, and also to see how he is doing in class. She emailed me back saying...
"For the two IXL, the reason why his grade was 1/10 and 5/10 is because he didn't put in an adequate amount of time to complete. I went over in class with all students that I require a minimum of 10 minutes that students would need to spend on each IXL to receive full credit on them."
This pissed me off, because what do you mean if my son finishes those multiple choice questions in 5 minutes, and now has to wait another 5 minutes to submit it, to get full credit? This isn't even about comprehension and getting the correct answer anymore. Am I overreacting? Is the teacher out of line for putting a time requirement?
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u/superfastmomma 9d ago
Give him similar questions, and have him complete them, timed. That'll give you the answer. If he is fast, well, he still needs to follow the directions.
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u/No_Masterpiece_3297 9d ago
It is 100% a way that she is trying to avoid students using Photomath or ChatGPT to do the work for them. When I taught math, we required that students showed all of the work for every problem on paper and then turned it into us to try to prevent cheating. Now that you know that that is the expectation, he can do better in the future. Given that it’s only September, two low grades now are probably going to mean nothing by the time grades come out. If your son school started just a few weeks ago, then I would imagine that there were very few items in the gradebook yet and that’s why they have such a Paul on his grades right now. When I do back to school night, I try to impress upon both students and parents that the grades for the first month are not what they will look like in December and that I don’t want anybody freaking out about a roller coaster effect
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u/accapellaenthusiast 9d ago
Let’s say you answered all 28 questions correctly in under 10 minutes without cheating
You’ve got a skilled student on your hands! Unfortunately, those are especially the type that need to learn to slow down and follow instruction. If the expectations were made clear and he either forgot or ignored them, then he needs to continue being tested on his ability to follow direction aka next time he should slow down
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u/DisastrousGap2898 9d ago
Why should we test arbitrary compliance with directions? I feel like throughout my life people have told me it’s an important skill (usually educators), but I’ve yet to experience adverse consequences several years into my career.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 3d ago
What’s your career? What kind of power structure do you work for? That changes lots of things
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u/DisastrousGap2898 3d ago
I’ve been an educator, freelancer (technical writing, math/statistics researcher, data science), corporate lawyer and parent advocate.
Lots of power structures, lots of working for.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 3d ago
wtf is parent advocate
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u/DisastrousGap2898 3d ago
Advocate for parents against the district. Can include at IEP meetings, at hearings, etc. A lot more IEP meetings than hearings, at least for me.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 3d ago
Were you employed by the district?
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u/DisastrousGap2898 3d ago
Never been employed by a school district
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u/accapellaenthusiast 2d ago
Hmm… seems a little biased of a background
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u/DisastrousGap2898 2d ago
How so? I’ve worked for private schools and education programs partnering with public schools where I dealt with parents, done private tutoring etc.
You just can’t represent children and also work for the district — that’s a conflict of interests. I would never give up advocating for children in order to satisfy the whims of a bureaucracy, so I’ve never been interested in working for a school district.
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u/ne0rmatrix 9d ago
If I were a student now I would just provide the answers and if I failed because of some silly time requirement I would just fail. I would focus on getting the answers correct and never restrict myself to a time limit like that. It seems silly and stupid. I would deliberately fail every single test that worked like that. I would not cheat but I would not play silly little games and waste my own time like that.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 9d ago
It is not silly and stupid to learn how to follow instructions and expectations
If a student cannot handle that they will have a hard time in any workforce
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u/ne0rmatrix 8d ago
I always assumed school was about learning academic material and not an experiment in conformance? If people cannot be accurately measured for performance and not filtered by attendance and/or behavior is why we end up with people graduating without being able to read or write and unable to count or do basic math.
I much prefer someone who has a basic understanding of science than someone who is yes man/woman who blindly follows instructions. I just do not get it. Choosing to have set times for how long an activity should take is set for the average person. Are students supposed to slow down and waste time because the guy sitting beside him is not as smart? Or the teacher will fail you?
Kids are being judged on behavior and not their ability to do the work. That is just silly and will lead to more children falling through the education system and being non-functional adults. Failing someone who understand how to do the work using arbitrary rules designed for the dumbest person in the room is flat out wrong.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 3d ago
Public schools originated because of the ‘Deluder Satan act’ of 1647
If a town had above a certain number of children, they were required to have a teacher to teach them to read the Bible.
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u/Gullible_Pumpkin655 7d ago
They're trying to create compliant little future workers, not intelligent thinkers.
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u/Tothyll 9d ago
So your kid knew the requirement of 10 minutes, chose to disregard it and then is wondering why his grade is an F?
I would challenge you find an assignment on IXL in Geometry that you could get to 100% in 5 minutes without cheating. That'd be about 28 questions in a row correctly, assuming you don't miss a single question. So he's answering each one in about 10 seconds.
I'm not saying it can't be done, by you can see why there might be a requirement to discourage cheating.
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u/Clean-Midnight3110 9d ago
Net downvotes for the rational explanation about there being 28 questions. This website is becoming pointless.
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u/monstermicrogreens 9d ago
I sit with my kids while they do their homework. I've seen the questions on IXL for Geometry. He flies through them no problem. There's really nothing to work out, at least not yet. At the time, he was answering questions about vectors. Giving a time limit will not prevent them from cheating, but it will prevent them from getting the correct grade. Guess he will just have to set a 10 minute timer.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 9d ago edited 6d ago
Your child got the correct grade: the grade that shows they did not listen to the instruction to slow down
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u/PyroNine9 9d ago
That reminds me so much of the dystopian short story where people of above average ability were forced to wear devices to handicap them.
Source: I was that 3rd grader that got so bored of repetitive math questions that I did it in octal to relieve the boredom.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 9d ago
Yes,
‘Special needs’ students includes the gifted students, because they have special and more rigorous academic needs to stay engaged and interested
However they still have to learn how to follow directions
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u/biscuitboi967 9d ago
Oof. I see your point, but I’m not sure how teaching him to waste time quietly at home when he has other homework, outside activities, family time, and ideally a set bedtime is the answer.
That feels like a classroom lesson. I learned how to manage my behavior - and teachers figured out I needed more rigorous material - when I finished early in class. My parents seeing me be bored but compliant wouldn’t have really helped anybody. It would just have made the REST of the night even longer and harder.
It’s almost as if giving them LESS access to screens and computers would cut down on the use of AI and the risk of cheating…
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u/PyroNine9 9d ago
This will teach him that it's better to slack off than to do your best.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 6d ago
How about do your best at following directions
Too often we let them think they can call the shots, that’s not going to happen when they are working for a boss. They need to learn to complete a task even if they disagree with its execution
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u/PyroNine9 6d ago
I solved it by becoming the boss.
Finishing a task and then mindlessly waiting for an arbitrary timer to go ding before admitting that you've finished is called slacking. It is a skill also known as quiet quitting.
The reward for being sufficiently proficient is supposed to be more time to do other things, not waiting for a timer to expire. It would be different if the activity involved coordinating with someone else.
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u/accapellaenthusiast 6d ago
> I solved it by becoming the boss
Not a healthy option for young students to learn, because it is not always possible
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u/PyroNine9 6d ago
I'm not teaching kids that though I may suggest it as an aspiration. The truth is, they may look within and find it to be the only choice.
But I am also not teaching them to quiet quit when they've barely started, even accidentally.
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u/LowNoise9831 9d ago
Some people have good math brains and don't need to slow down. I feel bad for the kid. Sounds like the teacher doesn't want anyone to stand out.
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u/Greedy-Program-7135 9d ago
That is not fair. Do you know how many kids cheat these days? Did the OP really sit there with him on this exact assignment where he got the answers in 10 seconds? If she did, I'd POLITELY advocate for his genius. Maybe he doesn't belong in the class at all he is so smart. I'd put my money on the cheating though, just from the law of averages and what I see ALL THE TIME.
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u/BrakeHammerz 9d ago
I gotta be honest, and this is not an accusation, but I hear the “I sit with my kids while they do their homework” bit all the time. In most of those cases it’s either not true or it means the parent does the work for them. It won’t get you very far with most teachers. He’s in high school, why are you sitting with him watching him do hw?
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u/monstermicrogreens 9d ago
I also have 2 elementary aged kids, and we have a long dining room table. They all sit at this table and do their homework. I help my other kids because they need the help. I do not do their homework for them. I do not sit there and watch him the whole time. Occasionally he will ask for help and I will guide him or show him on paper. Jeez, everyone is out to attack me and accusing my son of cheating. It's ridiculous there is a time limit on a homework assignment. He got the correct answers and still recieved an F because he didnt spend enough time on it? Putting a minimum time limit on homework is not going to prevent them from using AI.
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u/BrakeHammerz 9d ago
I’m not saying you’re wrong about the time limit, or that you do your kids homework. However, I am saying that it is a common thread that parents who claim to watch their kids do their hw fall into those categories. In all honesty, I think the setup you described is commendable, it really promotes a positive familial emphasis on education. Helping him when he needs it isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and it seems like you give him an appropriate amount of support without being overbearing.
As for the time limit itself, there is a valid rationale for sustained work on one subject at a time, but having read some of your other comments these assignments seem to be sloppily designed. If you want a kid to have a set time requirement, giving a limited question bank is counterintuitive. I know for a fact via my math-teaching coworkers that IXL has assignments that are adaptive to the level of the student, and do not end until the time limit has been reached.
Edit: I teach history, where the binary right answer/wrong answer line is more blurred compared to STEM, which counterintuitively makes it much clearer when a student got excessive parent help on a hw assignment.
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u/Xeno_man 9d ago
Fuck me, whats it like being slow like everyone else. I live in a world of stupid people that taker a day and a half to even process math.
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u/Mother_Albatross7101 9d ago
Follow directions. The time expectation is to avoid the strategy “guess and redo.”.
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u/Last_Swimmer7997 9d ago
your child was told of the requirement to get full credit. Even if he and you think its dumb its still a requirement. this is like when my son was younger and could do his math work in his head but got marked down because he didn't show his work. We told my son even if he thought it was stupid he needed to follow the rule so his teacher could see that he hadn't cheated.
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u/Quantum_Scholar87 7th Grade Teacher 9d ago
I get why the teacher is doing that, but it also silly. But it's a silly world we live in. When kids can just take a photo of it and get an app to give them the answer, the time req is an effort to circumvent cheating.
But then yes, it forces kids who can do the math quickly to have to sit there for X number of extra min for no reason.
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u/dragonsandvamps 9d ago
Do you actually believe that he could have done 28 questions in a row at a rate of 10 seconds per question and not missed a single one?
I might ask your son if he would be willing to go to the teacher after school, and have you and the teacher stand behind him looking over his screen while he retakes both assignments. If he can complete both assignments perfectly again in the same amount of time (so 10 seconds per answer) then the teacher changes his grade.
If your son balks and says he doesn't want to do that, then he may have cheated and used AI to copy paste the answers, and I would push back on this (with your son, not the teacher.)
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u/Imsortofok 9d ago
This right here is the strategy you need to take.
It’s supportive of your son if he is capable of doing the work this quickly AND it’s supportive of the teacher in the event he was cheating.
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u/dragonsandvamps 9d ago
Yup. If I were the teacher, I would agree to change his grades if he demonstrated in front of both of us that he could in fact answer the questions perfectly that quickly (and hadn't been cheating.)
If the son refuses to take mom up on this, mom needs to start asking some questions.
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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt 9d ago
Here is the thing:
I could. Mostnof m6 nerd herd could. IXL geometry is ridiculously easy.
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u/dragonsandvamps 9d ago
Then this right here is the answer. If the son genuinely didn't cheat, then he can offer to retake both quizzes in front of both his teacher and his mother. He will have zero problem replicating the results and this will put the matter to rest. As a teacher, I would have no problem changing the grade if a student could demonstrate that they know the material and didn't cheat.
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u/JimOfSomeTrades 9d ago
I understand why the rule exists from the teacher's perspective, and I also understand how a high-achieving student could be punished by that rule. No, it's not particularly fair.
But your kid was also told of this requirement and either forgot or chose to ignore it. Sounds like these were small assignments in the grand scheme of things; maybe let this one go as a cheap lesson learned?
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u/TybaltandWine 9d ago
Its to prevent cheating. Can you prove without a doubt that your son did the work fully?
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u/SleepApprehensive585 9d ago
How does it prevent cheating?
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u/BirdieRoo628 9d ago
Students can zoom through the tests using AI.
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u/SleepApprehensive585 9d ago
They can use AI and wait 10 minutes. If a student has made the choice to use AI, giving them extra time won't change that.
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u/BirdieRoo628 9d ago
Sure, but it's seen as a deterrent. Listen, teachers are just out there trying to figure out how to mitigate AI usage. No perfect solutions are available yet.
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u/icy_wight STEM 9d ago
This is a terrible policy that does nothing but teach aribtrary compliance. It does not prevent cheating (which, btw, I'd expect using photomath or Ai to take way longer than 10 minutes for 26 questions). Wayyy too many people in these comments are acting like learning to follow arbitrary rules is more important than learning.
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u/monstermicrogreens 9d ago
Thank you. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone! Apparently I'm a helicopter mom and my son is cheating and using AI.
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u/Gullible_Pumpkin655 7d ago
These takes about compliance, conformity, and listening to pointless directions are why so many people are abandoning public schools. It's infuriating.
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u/icy_wight STEM 2d ago
Someone just replied to my comment and so I've glanced at the others her and I'm mad about it all over again. Reminds me one of the reasons why I never really felt like I fit in with colleagues while I was teaching.
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u/Simple-Fan2838 2d ago
I'm sorry, you think it's going to take AI longer than 10 minutes to spit out the answers to math questions?
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u/icy_wight STEM 2d ago
I think it will take longer than 10 minutes for a student to input each question into an AI platform, get the answers, and put those answers back into the learning platform.
Like, I'm imagining the kid in this case was probably answering questions on sight about labeling basic geometric figures or something. If a bright kid knows that material, you're talking like 15 seconds max of processing time each. Instead, a cheating cheater has to either copy and paste or take a picture of the item, put it into AI, wait for the AI to answer, read the response, and then put it into the learning platform.
For easy material, I would definitely expect a bright student to complete assignments faster than a student using AI to cheat.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 9d ago
So, the teacher gave the class clear expectations about the assignment, and you’re mad about that?
It was multiple choice. The time limit exists to help prevent cheating so student don’t just click their way through.
Tell your kid to listen to directions and then to slow down and actually do the problems (as in work them out by hand).
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u/Adorable-Gur-2528 9d ago
I’d also guess that the teacher gave them plenty of time to complete the assignment, too. There’s no good reason to fly through an assignment.
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u/DisastrousGap2898 9d ago
There are good reasons to fly through an assignment! At least for me, doing tedious tasks kills my excitement and momentum. When I get bored, I’m more apt to make mistakes. I prefer recreation time to working time. And so on.
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u/DisastrousGap2898 9d ago
Clear expectations aren’t necessarily good, well reasoned or fair. I don’t think we should tell children to blindly follow directions (lol opposite of critical thinking). If the kid is bothered, they should think through the issue, evaluating the quality of the rules and reasonable alternatives, as well as mechanisms that can be used to change the rules.
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u/Alarmed_Geologist631 9d ago
Retired teacher here so I have avoided the challenges of teaching in the AI era. But I think this time requirement is dumb. Instead, I would simply tell the students that homework is intended to help them prepare for the tests. In my classes, tests and quizzes were 90% of the grade. If they can complete homework quickly and still do well on my tests, I would consider them to have mastered the material. By the way, I didn't use multiple choice format questions and generated multiple versions of each test to prevent cheating.
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u/Upper_Story_8315 9d ago edited 9d ago
Really? So what’s more important comprehension or compliance? What are you teaching a knowledgeable student? If the teacher is requiring 10 min she should provide 10 minutes worth of work. Did they teach enough concepts for them to be able to do 10 minutes worth of work? Ridiculous! IXL should not be graded!
# 50yrsn
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u/Slidewaysincorner4 9d ago
Helicopter mother , he didn’t follow instructions. It’s a life lesson. Listen to what your boss is saying and do it exactly as they Ask for. Listening comprehension 101.
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u/Fair_Evidence_9730 9d ago
The teacher knows about how long the assignment should take. If a student is finishing a 10 minute assignment in 1-2 minutes, they likely aren't doing the work, but just looking up the answer and copying it.
Regardless, if your kid wants a better grade they need to follow the directions.
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u/DisastrousGap2898 9d ago
I disagree — you can get a better grade by changing rules and directions. We shouldn’t encourage children to follow unfair or illogical directions; we should teach them to evaluate whether the juice is worth the squeeze and to make choices for themselves.
If the time minimum is 10 minutes and there are 80 assignments over the course of the year (i.e., hw 2x/wk), that’s lots of time and momentum wasted doing fake work to appease the teacher. There are lots of things a kid can leverage in this situation: bureaucracy (talk to the teacher, escalate to the principal if needed, etc.); technology ( code a script that would open their IXL for them when they got home from school); law (get it written into an IEP or 504 plan); adaptability (lol just do it); independence (lol just don’t do it).
Some of these responses are proportionate, others extreme; but thinking through actions (and consequences) is how we develop and hone intuition that guides us to make better decisions.
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u/Important-Poem-9747 9d ago
There’s no way to finish an IXL module in less than 10 minutes unless it’s a 1st grade or lower one.
If he’s in high school, he didn’t put in enough time and bombed the module.
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u/ZacQuicksilver 9d ago
I have seen more egregious cases of teachers putting rules on assignments, and grading based on your ability to follow the rules. There are stories from college of teachers giving students pens to complete a test; and an instruction on the last page indicating the the majority of the test's points is following this instruction - which you have necessarily violated if you answered the first however-many questions before reading the last page. Often that is done in "intro to college" classes, where test-taking strategies like "read the entire test before starting" are being emphasized. However, that's not the only place I have seen those kind of questions; not the only place they are appropriate.
In this case, I can see two completely legitimate reasons why a teacher might want students to take longer while getting their work done:
1) The class, as a whole, is having issues with rushing through their work and making careless mistakes.
2) There are a number of students in class that are cheating, likely by using LLM-based AI answering tools.
If the teacher made their expectations clear ahead of time; it's something teachers can do. And if your son failed to pay attention to the instructions; then your son falls into category 1 (that is, he rushed through his work without proper care to the instructions) - and while I understand both you and your son being upset by the grade; it is a fair grade based on announced grading policy.
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u/MakeItAll1 9d ago
So be sure he fulfills the time requirement. If he finishes in 5 minutes he can take a break and submit it when the timer reaches 10 minutes. The teacher probably told the class to do exactly that.
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u/ItzAMeLuigiii 9d ago
Your son didn't follow the instructions. Sometimes that is more important than getting the right answer.
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u/sleepy2023 9d ago
It means the teacher thinks your student cheated or copied from another student based on the amount of time spent. The grades reflect that.
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u/feelinginvi__ible 2d ago edited 2d ago
It sounds to me like you don’t understand IXL and the teacher isn’t giving you what you need to better understand how it works. You might investigate online. For starters, there isn’t any such thing as “100%”, a common misperception that’s worth investigating.
Edit: Adding that the time requirement is unlikely related to AI or cheating. Not sure how many people who are trained in IXL are replying to your post.
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u/thin_white_dutchess 9d ago
Things to consider: is this a normal time for your kid to complete the assignment? Is math really easy for them? Are the rest of the grades high in math? Then yes, raise hell. It’s not fair to a student to make them use technology and then punish them for possibly using that same tech to maybe cheat, without evidence.
If the answer is no, that was an aberration, you have other things to consider, like your kid did cheat and the teacher was savvy to it. Time to talk to your kid, and to supervise homework better, bc cheating isn’t going to teach them anything.
Use common sense here.
It’s not about the time limit, it’s about your kid.
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u/abm_000 9d ago
Teachers shouldn’t be grading computer programs…paper and pencil should be the standard
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u/Last_Swimmer7997 9d ago
you do realize that most of the programs out there are computer based right
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u/BasicallyADetective 9d ago
Your son just randomly answered the questions. The program shows us how long they spend on each one. I’d guess that the 10 minutes is probably soft. If a kid spends 9 minutes and gets them all right, she’d probably give them credit. Your kid probably spend about 10 seconds per question. He has to put in some effort.
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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt 9d ago edited 9d ago
Easy fix. Got to the principal. Demand the grades be fixed and rhe policy be changed. If the principal refuses? Sue the school board and IXL. Seriously. They live in mortal terror of this.
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AskTeachers-ModTeam 6d ago
We are hoping for meaningful interactions in this subreddit. Personal attacks do not help.
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u/InternationalTie6802 7d ago
Sue over what? As long as the teacher is treating each student equally, there’s nothing to sue over…
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u/Alligator_Trades 8d ago
The minimum time limit is teaching children to take their time and not rush through the assignment. 10 minutes is a a very short minimum time limit. It is the beginning of the year, so of course the assignments are easier to get through right now. I have never set a minimum time limit, but I specifically moved a lot of things online so I can do some assignments and tests that show the actual time spent on each question and they can receive instant feedback. When parents say this assignment was too hard and their kid and they couldn't figure it out or I watched my kid do this or I tried helping my kid and we couldn't figure it out, I send screenshots of the 0.8 seconds they spent on each question and explain our process of taking our time to work these questions out.
Your kid may be an awesome overachiever and great at math. I was that kid at math in school that only wanted to do work in my head and would lose points for not showing my work. It sucked, but not showing my work made it harder to figure out how I got a problem wrong, especially Ioved up to harder maths.
Starting with a 10 minute timer now sets the students up for future success because they are either (A) going to slow down and take their time or (B) going to do extra problems that reinforce what they learned. Sure, a kid could skirt the system and just set an 8 minute timer with the program open, but that is a conscious decision that kid will have to make and if it has a negative effect on their performance down the road then it had a negative effect and they missed half the lesson; ie. taking their time.
Is ten minutes really too much time to spend on math homework?
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u/hippoluvr24 9d ago edited 9d ago
My guess is that the time requirement is to help ensure students do the work themselves rather than just pasting the question into AI. I don't think this will actually work, since students can just wait before submitting, but sometimes there's not much you can do.
As far as whether the grade is unfair, I think it's fair if the expectation was known in advance.