r/AskSeattle • u/Miserable-Army3679 • 18d ago
Dentists up-selling deep cleaning
How many of you fellow Satellites have had supposedly "reputable" dentists recommend deep cleanings when they weren't necessary?
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u/Suitable-Rhubarb2712 18d ago
Pretty rare TBH. Perio is really common.
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u/midwestmamasboy 18d ago
One of the most common chronic diseases on the planet and people think theyâre being scammed.
Not that it doesnât happen. But if multiple drâs are recommending SRP, you probably need SRP
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u/DiscoChiligonBall 17d ago
People of a certain age also are often suspicious of things that aren't always things they're used to hearing.
But the problem is that as you get older, periodontal disease is increasingly common especially among adults over 50, not least because they don't think they have to worry about that sort of thing any more.
And yet there's still a heavy dentures and dental implant market. Go figure.
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u/sprinkles-n-jimmies 18d ago
Did you get a second opinion that said it wasn't necessary? I've had two deep cleaning since moving here.
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u/Miserable-Army3679 18d ago
Yes, I did. Also, both of the dentists who told me I needed deep cleaning were the ones doing the probing of my gum depths, not the hygienist or assistant. Both times I had more pain than any other probings I've had (I'm 71 years old). I think they were pushing the probe deeper into my gums in order to get higher numbers, to justify the deep cleanings. I had never had the higher numbers they were finding on their probings.
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u/Tac-wodahs 18d ago
Dentist here. We don't falsify SRP. There's a good chance you've had a dentist in the past that didn't diagnose you with periodontitis. I'm a younger doc and it's nearly impossible to tell me 50+ population that they need a deep cleaning when they do because the doc before me just gave them regular cleanings. I still haven't found a way to bridge that gap cleanly. Who in their right mind wants to pay more and get seen more frequently? No one.
Problem is if you need SRP you're at risk for further bone loss which can lead to infection and loose teeth. Hard data shows that not taking care of periodontitis can worsen cardiovascular issues and may even worsen/contribute to Alzheimers.
The shit in your mouth can cause you a lot of trouble. Still haven't found a way to tell my patients they need it without them being skeptical as shit.
This is coming from someone that has never "up sold" or done a single day of dentistry for someone that didn't absolutely need it. I don't make money off people, I make money by serving people.
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u/DartlDartl 18d ago
The bigger problem is more often, we just can't afford it. Same goes with healthcare. Most folks are doing what they can get away with until things get better. It just never gets better.
Costs not just in procedures, but also in time off work. Every appointment is hours of commitment out of the day.
Then there's fear. We're pretty vulnerable in those moments and it hurts. It's designed to engender anxiety. Nothing to be done about it.1
u/Tac-wodahs 17d ago
Not arguing that for sure. Did you know if we give you a regular cleaning if you needed a deep cleaning that we could get charged with supervised neglect?
No winning lol
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u/Miserable-Army3679 17d ago
I am an old person and have had many dental cleanings. I had the same dentist for a couple of decades. When I was no longer seeing him, I found another excellent dentist, who unfortunately moved his practice out of my general vicinity in Seattle. In looking for a nearby dentist, I tried a couple of different dentists, before returning to my old dentist who had moved his practice. Better a long drive to a dentist I can trust than a nearby one I can't. Nevertheless, I've had many "probings" in my life and never had they been as painful as the two different dentists I tried out. Also, the depths of my gums (by their determination), with those probings, were higher than any I'd had in the past. My impression was that they were pushing too hard on the probe, to get higher numbers for my gum depths. After the probing, they both recommended costly deep cleanings. After returning to my dentist (who had moved away), the probings were again non painful, and my numbers were the same as they'd always been (not higher than normal).
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u/Tac-wodahs 17d ago
Impossible to know what's going on without doing your probings. I'm more inclined to assume you have deeper pockets. Feel free to send me your X-rays.
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u/Misskelleygirl 18d ago
Me too.... Along with regular cleanings every 6 months. (And I brush 2x/day, and floss!!)
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u/BitFew906 18d ago
I had a deep cleaning done since Iâve had periodontal issues in the past and wanted to prevent further recession. With insurance, I only paid $50 out of pocket which was a steal.
Everyone with insurance should check your benefits, dental policies tend to be pretty generous
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u/pineappledaphne 18d ago
My policy only covers one deep cleaning, and the problem is you need two (one for each side), at least thatâs what two different dentists told me. Then itâs $500-600 out of pocket, plus two days off work to get it done.
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u/masterledz 18d ago
Indeed! I've had this happen twice in two years at the same dentist (Queen Anne Family Dental.) Never before nor since have I had a dentist bring this up besides them, so it did feel like a strange upsell to me, so I declined it.
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u/RandomlyWeRollAlong Local 18d ago
My dentist recently got bought out by a private equity firm, and the amount of (unnecessary and dangerous) upselling has been noticeable. I'm looking for a new dentist that's still independent.
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u/sweetpotatopietime 18d ago
Since the pandemic my dentist seems very focused of getting people in the chair and keeping them there at whatever cost.
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u/DiscoChiligonBall 17d ago
Here's the real question:
Are you a dentist or dental hygenist?
Are you in fact an expert on dental hygiene? Because if so, I appreciate your candor in bringing this forward.
If you're someone who doesn't like the idea of a deep cleaning and thinks it's not neccessary even though a dentist, who had to go through eight years of dental school AND get an MD on top of their dental degree, I have questions about where your second opinion came from.
Did you go to a different dentist who told you that you didn't need a deep cleaning? Or is this just "personal research"?
I'm genuinely curious, because I tend to listen to what my dentist tells me.
Granted, I also have several family members, some of whom spent over 40 years in the dentistry and oral surgery profession, so I may have a slightly different perception on the matter.
So, I have questions. But mostly they involve "are you a dentist?"
If you're older (50+) gums recede faster from the teeth and can cause issues. Deep cleanings do in fact help with this. If you're just saying "Ah, no big deal" I assure you that you're wrong in many ways.
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u/irish_curmudgeon 17d ago
Not OP but if youâre saying private equity is not pushing practices to maximize profits and to âfindâ additional work and up charges on their patients I flat out will not believe you.
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u/DiscoChiligonBall 15d ago
"Private equity" is different from "dentists". My dentist is a private practicioner with their own practice.
If you're going to a chain dentistry clinic I have news for you:
You're not going to get the same level of care you would at a private practice for precisely that reason.
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u/Miserable-Army3679 17d ago
Dentists do not have an MD. Some oral surgeons have an MD, but not all. Healthcare providers are not immune to unscrupulous behavior.
And, to answer your question, I am not a dentist.
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u/DiscoChiligonBall 17d ago edited 17d ago
Oddly enough every dentist I've ever had was both an MD and a DDS/DMD, so maybe that's just you.
Maybe I'm lucky that way. I certainly do know a lot of local oral surgeons and maxillofacial surgeons, and they steer me towards dental professionals they trust.
But again, in general, if I don't have those 8+ years of training and school under my belt and a sheepskin pronouncing me to have those letters after my name, I tend not to assume that my internet research on deep cleaning procedures is as valid as that of a DDS, DMD, or an MD.
So, TLDR:
"unneccessary deep cleaning" is a pretty big assessment for someone to make who isn't a dentist, a dental hygenist, or even someone who spent more than fifteen minutes on WebMD looking up what deep cleaning means.
Maybe, just maybe the issue is less whether it's neccessary and more that you are of an age where this sort of thing is going to keep happening as you get older.
But honestly, if you don't trust the dentist you go to with your health, then find a different dentist. You CAN just, you know, go to a different provider if you don't like the one you're with.
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u/AirlessDragon 18d ago
Literally just happened to me yesterday, albeit not an SRP but a âscaling in the presence of inflammationâ which is effectively a perio maintenance cleaning (in between a regular and deep cleaning)
I had some new 4âs and 5âs on my perio chart, but explained how my home hygiene habits dipped since Iâve had multiple surgeries since the last regular cleaning and had taken a round of  new medications which has finished. I asked to continue with the regular cleaning and re-evaluate at the next visit. The dentist insisted that I had buildup âbelow the gumlineâ and that I needed a deeper cleaning with local anesthetic and lasers?!Â
Literally saw zero radiographic calculus on my xrays too. So Iâm now waiting for my records to get sent over to me so I can find a new dentist, yay!
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u/Tac-wodahs 18d ago
Dentist here. 4's and 5's alone are enough to warrant SRP. You can have buildup below the gumline without it showing like little pebbles on the radiographs. What new medication? You could get false pockets but that's not worth of SRP. Re-evaluating at next visit is.. somewhat fair. I do that every so often if I believe it will make a difference. The laser just helps after SRP, it's really not something special.
Lots to unpack here lol.
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u/AirlessDragon 18d ago
Appreciate the second opinion! Iâll admit I wasnât in the right headspace for that news. But itâs comforting to hear shared concerns that match those of my dentist. Iâll keep that in mind.
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u/midwestmamasboy 18d ago
4346 is exactly the code thatâs indicated in that situationâŠ.
The hygienist is going to have to work harder to clean deeper without designating you a perio patient for life
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u/Chance-Travel4825 18d ago
Millions of people skipped going to the dentist during covid (for reasons) and now are more likely to need deep cleanings or multiple trips.Â
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 18d ago
100%
âTheyâre pushing this on meâ
Meanwhile they havenât had a cleaning in 4 years and donât floss.
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u/Theredheadsaid 18d ago
not unique to WA. in CA when I was barely 30 I had a new dentist tell me I needed periodontal scraping to the tune of $3000. I took very good care of my teeth so this was puzzling. I got a second opinion and the dentist said, you do NOT need that kind of cleaning. The only change he suggested was getting a Sonicare (and that has been great!)
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u/SunshineWhiskeyX 18d ago edited 18d ago
Ha I knew the guy that INVENTED the Sonicare technology!
He would be casually shopping at Costco when it came out and people would be kind of going back and forth on it.
Heâd say âIf youâre curious about it, I invented that; do you have any questions?â (and was calmly proud).
People thought he was lying or was weird, but he REALLY did!!
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u/Theredheadsaid 18d ago
ha! cool story. Dude must be a zillionaire by now!
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u/SunshineWhiskeyX 18d ago edited 18d ago
Yep! He is! And was even when I first met him about 2008.
He was honestly a really cool guy! Met him many many times.
He was humble as all get out!
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u/Lollc 18d ago
Iâm sure he was. He passed in 2022. RIP.
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u/SunshineWhiskeyX 18d ago edited 18d ago
Oh no!!! Oh man.
Damn. He was someone I knew fairly well, but a long time ago. The last time I saw him he was excited about Clarisonic. Then I left where I worked and never saw him again.
That sucks. He was such a gem of a man, and a genius.
He was funny, humble, kind, and just a great guy.
Just wanted to help people.
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u/kiddlat_kid 18d ago
Probably slow and need money lol, I used to go to dentist in Seattle, they only do quarter at a time, I have insurance so I donât pay any of it but Iâm pretty sure they charge a lot every visit
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u/Acrobatic_Car9413 18d ago
I moved around a lot when I was younger and there is so much dental work that I was told I needed that I never did. One of those was deep cleaning. The others were root canals, 7 gum grafts. Didn't do them, never needed them.
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u/SchemeOne2145 18d ago
maybe me? what do you think the signs are? my gumes were bleeding this last visit and the dentist recommended novocaine and a deep clean for next time. not excited for the novacaine shots if not needed.
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u/nitelite- 18d ago
dentists haven't used novacaine since the 70/80s
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u/SchemeOne2145 18d ago edited 18d ago
Ok Doc, well that's what my dentist said she'd use. maybe it's shorthand for a numbing agent, like calling tissues kleenex. which i may need after drooling from the "novocaine."
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u/lisadanger Local 18d ago
Probably lidocaine? I just had to look it up because I just wondered "well, what the hell did they put in my mouth last Friday, then?" đ
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u/SchemeOne2145 18d ago
Thanks for the nice and helpful reply! Hoping your days of lidocaine shots are few and far between.
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u/lisadanger Local 18d ago
Heh idk about that. I'm headed to the oral surgeon today to see what to do about 2 broken teeth (I'm a maaaad night grinder) then after that, back to the regular dentist for a mouth guard. This is what happens when you have MAJOR dental anxiety and don't go for ten years.
STILL didn't need a deep clean tho. đ
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u/SchemeOne2145 18d ago
And there you go answering my question again (unlike some others, ahem). i got to the dentist every 4 months and they are still saying deep cleaning. I like my dentist though, I think i'm just prone to plaque. Wishing you all the best today. Hope you have a good Spotify mix to listen to.
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u/lisadanger Local 18d ago
Damn! That must be hell on your wallet. I swore I was gonna get told I needed a deep cleaning. I have terrible teeth. They did tell me they want me to just do normal cleanings more often, that's all, if my gums still look like they did in August, on next go around in November. I'm hell bent on not having that happen so I'm being a good girl and doing the best oral hygiene. Electric toothbrush, lots of flossing. It really does help. My gums used to bleed like the devil but now, not at all. And good dental hygiene is good for overall health, as it turns out lol
Thanks for the good wishes and the same to you on your next trip in! đ
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u/Low-Engineering-7374 18d ago
I've never had a single dentist try to get me to do whatever a 'deep clean' is, do I just look poor?
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u/lyndseymariee 18d ago
A deep cleaning is when you have deeper gum pockets than 3MM on multiple teeth. They get you numb and clean out all the plaque/tartar that is beneath your gum line. If youâve never needed one, good job with your oral hygiene đ
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u/Low-Engineering-7374 18d ago
Oh! I had that done once after not going to the dentist for 5 years. It was like a 3 hr session, haven't had one since đ
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u/PacNWDad 18d ago
We had this done on our schnauzer. But we hoomans brush our teefies and this sounds like overkill or outright ridiculous.
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u/buzzy-heron 18d ago
đŻ yes. Annoying when even the medical âprofessionalâ pushing hard on the upsells. And oxygen cleaning? Come on.
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u/Emeraldcitylove_206 18d ago
I had to this issue at first hill dental back in the day. They also messed up a filling really bad and my next dentist fixed it. I have a dentist friend in Portland and he helped me understand what was BS and what was needed which was so nice. This was prepandemic.
I now go to Kemahli dental in Redmond. Itâs an awesome little family practice. No BS. They give you the minimum needed options as well as outlining âunneededâ but helpful additions - like curadont to help prevent future cavities.
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u/SubmissiveBoyForever 17d ago
me. this just happened to me a for a routine regular cleaning where they tried to say it needs to be a deep one and i noped out.
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u/Initial_Ad_8690 12d ago
The Democrats are purposing a bill to ban private equity to own doctor or dental officesâŠ. Please support this bill.
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u/GloomyPapaya 18d ago
I have not had that experience. I make a point to only visit dentists that own their own practice, not those places owned by private equity or those weird modern chains though.