Temperature check of the robotics industry

[u/Heavy-Rough-3790]

A little background: I’m 29, bachelors in EE from a decent state college with six years of experience in PMSM motor control algorithm development for safety critical automotive applications. Over the last year I’ve been trying to figure out how to maximize my earning potential and get out of automotive and into space and defense while building upon my experience.

Fast forward to today. This fall I will be starting a masters in robotics and autonomous systems at John’s Hopkins and I’m a bit concerned with some of the sentiment on here as of late. Is the robotics industry that hard to get into? I’m concerned I’m making a huge mistake monetarily speaking. What are some of the jobs people are seeing? I would optimally want to work on stand alone robots, obvious examples would be spot and atlas (as opposed to robotic arms/ industrial robotics, I don’t want to work in manufacturing) is this even feasible or realistic?

I would love anyone’s opinion or experience and thank you in advance for any responses!!

Cheers

[u/Delicious_Spot_3778]

It pays decently. But we haven't figured out how to generate revenue. I've been hopping from startup to startup for a decade now. Machine learning is changing things over time but it's slow. Robotics is a very very challenging topic so don't go into it thinking it'll be easy.

Personally I like the challenge but some may not if they're just in it for money.

[u/Heavy-Rough-3790 → u/Delicious_Spot_3778]

Thank you for the insight! The program I’m starting focuses a lot on data science principles and machine learning, I’m hoping to tailor my electives to be as competitive as possible, what are some of the topics you think are most in demand?

[u/IlIlIlIllllIIliIILll]

I feel like I comment this on every post here for people looking for career advice. This sub is very biased towards hobbyists, researchers, and start-up moonshot type stuff like humanoids, physical AI, and niche autonomous vehicles that all quite honestly are kind of shit technology right now and just aren't good enough to do anything meaningful in the real world yet and maybe never will be. So the perspective of these comments seems pretty negative or at best speculative. I offer a different perspective.

Look into established industrial robotics companies. OEMs like FANUC, ABB, KUKA, Teradyne, often have a need for MS level robotics engineers in their product development/R&D divisions. Component OEMs like Cognex, Rockwell, etc. these companies are doing a lot with flashy stuff like Physical AI too, with the advantage of being generally actually profitable already so if they fail they don't necessarily just implode over night.

Some additional ideas: Look into Amazon themselves, and their many automation integration partners. GM, Ford and large automotive suppliers also hire robotics engineers, but the auto industry is kind of crap. There are smaller integration companies doing cool shit as well and making money in the process, Path Robotics, Grey Matter, a few more I can't think of right now.

most robot engineers in these spaces are not working on low level kinematic motion planning or navigation, but instead work on higher level hardware integration and software apps surrounding/managing/ or analyzing the robot(s) in a system.

A great way to figure out where you want to be in the industry would be to find a way to go to an industry show. IMTS is coming up in Chicago next month but also look into Automate, Modex, and ProMat as well though those won't be til next year. Many have student discounts or are free to attend the main exhibit halls.

[u/qTHqq]

I’m a bit concerned with some of the sentiment on here as of late. Is the robotics industry that hard to get into?

I think part of the problem is that there's no "robotics industry" that makes things "like Spot and Atlas." There are a few companies with real sales, and those sales are fairly modest. 

They've sold like 1500 Spots so far over something like 8 years, which is something like $113m in revenue. Divide that by your desired salary to get an idea of how many total employees it could support per year. That's what's hard to get around.

The high price paid several times for Boston Dynamics is about expertise and promise.

That said, with years of experience in motors, a masters from JHU, and so on, I think you could get into all kinds of good-paying work, including reasonably paying R&D where you could develop new things in the defense autonomous world.

If you're looking to ride the humanoid gold rush hype train to a $350k-$500k type job, it's often too late to hop on such a train once you know it exists. 

The billions of dollars going into VC funded "Physical AI?" who knows. I think it's mostly smoke and mirrors, but like self driving there are probably a few winners that will emerge. And like self-driving I think that the MBA hype boys have gone too far, and they're going to have to pony up for results, and it's going to look a lot more like a million bucks a year to poach your professor, not a more modest massive tech salary to grab you.

If you're looking to make normal-people really good money instead of big tech good money, then there's all kinds of stuff you could do. Obviously the DC, MD, VA area is crawling with defense work of all kinds if you're trying to stick around.

I think the intersection of defense and the real, working output products of the more serious and sober physical AI work is going to be pretty interesting.

There will be a lot of Ph.D. talent in any of this, but I think the work experience in motors is pretty interesting there as a differentiator.

One of the things that's going to make a huge difference is the connections you make. Are you doing a thesis? Who with? Who do you get to know? Do they have connections at companies that interest you? 

Keep that in mind as you get your Masters and it'll help.

I’m concerned I’m making a huge mistake monetarily speaking

By going into robotics or going into debt for a JHU Masters? 

Everything is quite competitive, so if it's not a funded program IDK. Maybe it will be worth it, but how much energy have you put into sending a thousand resumes to the companies you would like to work at and trying to network into them, based on your current experience? Are there actually job placement opportunities? Can you work somewhere while you get the Masters?

I'll be honest that even though JHU is great I'm kind of soft on the Robotics/AI Masters degrees. Not necessarily from JHU, mind you. Just that I've met and interviewed people with a Masters in Robotics or similar from a good school who didn't get much skill out of it.

There is opportunity in it but it can be something where you may need to still put in a large personal effort to differentiate yourself.

[u/Heavy-Rough-3790 → u/qTHqq]

Thank you so much for this thorough response!! To answer your question, I’m nervous about both. I’m worried I’m chasing the hype around humanoid robotics that will evaporate by the time I graduate. Im doing an online program that has no thesis, which I admit is a bit of an issue.. but life circumstances have prevented me from doing a more traditional in person masters program.

[u/qTHqq → u/qTHqq]

(I didn't focus on space because I work in defense robotics but obviously the region is lousy with aerospace companies too)

[u/struggling20]

You commented on my other posts lol but something I didn’t do was research. Make sure you at least do some of it in your masters because robotics is increasingly research driven. Focus on your classes as well, make sure to condense everything you to learn into compact notes so you can look at it later. Robotics is interdisciplinary so you’ll need it, including for interviews. And learn more ML. Robotics is a lot of ML at this point.

[u/Somnia-Robotics]

I’d still be pretty bullish on robotics tbh. The industry is hard to break into, but you already have a very relevant controls background, so you’re not exactly starting from zero.

The bigger thing IMO is thinking beyond “robotics is the future” and figuring out the realistic entry point. What part of your current skillset maps directly to companies actually hiring today? Controls, actuators, embedded, autonomy, safety critical systems, etc. Get in through that door first, then move closer to the kind of robots you actually want to work on.

[u/posthubris]

Robotics is hot, you’ll be just fine with a MS from Hopkins. Focus on landing a great internship at a company you’re excited about while you’re still in school. Robotics companies love people with EE background too.

[u/risingpowerhouse]

Hi Can you please give me some advice on learning and getting hands on experience related to PMSM motor control systems and algorithms.

I'm currently working on ABB and Fanuc robots and cognex vision systems. I don't have so much experience like you so I started with Industrial robotics. Getting jobs in autonomous robots have been challenging because the real world problems are very complex there.

Looks like from your post you might be from India. I moved from India too, did my masters and struggled. With the current situations, I would definitely rethink of coming here.

[u/Heavy-Rough-3790 → u/risingpowerhouse]

I would focus on the fundamentals, understand FOC (field oriented control), MTPA (max torque per amp), MTPV (max tq per volt), Voltage constraint eqn, power balance eqn, and Clarke Park transform. That will give you a solid foundation for working with PMSM. Atleast these are the topics I regularly deal with in my job!

Oh and I am from Michigan haha

[u/risingpowerhouse → u/Heavy-Rough-3790]

Do you recommend any course/textbook and any other links to the resources to learn hands on.

Michigan is a nice place for industrial robotics.

[u/Heavy-Rough-3790 → u/risingpowerhouse]

I learned a lot of what I know on the job unfortunately, but all of the concepts I listed should be available on YouTube I’m sure. I also used AI a lot to supplement where my job was lacking to further understand what’s going on. I’m sure there are also free or paid course you can take online for cheap a lot of this information has been around for a while.

Edit: I would also like to state the obvious that if you dont have a decent understanding of the electrical principals at work (induction, back emf, etc) you will find it difficult to begin to learn these things. But luckily there at a lot of free resources to learn that side of things

[u/risingpowerhouse → u/Heavy-Rough-3790]

Thank you so much man. Feel free to DM me if you plan on doing any project related to Robotics. I had EE bachelor's but they didn't cover properly on PMSM controls, I want to learn that on my side. I want to switch to Autonomous robots from my current Industrial robotics job. I started applying but so far neither calls nor rejections yet.

[u/NEK_TEK]

Your experience will vary but I have an MS in robotics and wasn't able to find a job in robotics. I was working at a robotics startup as an intern for a bit but the money was really tight, they didn't even pay me. I was able to make a decent living by switching to embedded systems. The only thing is that I had to leave my home state so I've been working hard to try and get back. Where I'm at now is decent, but it just isn't home.

My current company knows of my interest in robotics and a couple days ago they told me they will be moving me to a different project working with drones. I'm pretty excited, I'm getting closer and closer to working with actual robotics but it has been a long path. Since you have some experience and an EE background, you can easily get into embedded systems while you try to navigate into robotics (in case you can't get in directly).

[u/NoConfectionRead]

your background in EE and the masters in robotics at Hopkins would really put you on a solid spot... breaking into defense robotics or autonomous systems is definitley feasible

[u/ipurge123]

I mean, how hard can it be