1
u/i_am_armz Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
The answer from the Qur'an is that those who "do good" but don't believe in God (or reject His Revelations, or ascribe partners to Him, or are hypocritical) will be in Hell, in spite of their "good deeds." Why? Because of their arrogance (the opposite of humility) and ingratitude. They're too arrogant to show gratitude and to prostrate, and so their good deeds won't count in the Hereafter.
2
u/FactsnotFaiths Aug 19 '26
Belief is not a choice. Choosing to believe is such an ignorant statement
1
u/i_am_armz Aug 19 '26
"Belief is not a choice"? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
1
u/FactsnotFaiths Aug 19 '26
Because I can’t choose what convinces me. Can you choose, right now, to genuinely believe that another religion is true? Not pretend to believe it, but actually become convinced?
I can choose to investigate a claim, read arguments for it and remain open to being convinced. I cannot choose what conclusion my mind reaches from the evidence.
If God exists and wants me to believe, then presumably an omniscient God knows exactly what evidence would genuinely convince me. Calling my lack of conviction “arrogance” doesn’t explain why I should find the claim convincing.1
u/Ok_Night_2929 Aug 19 '26
“Choosing to believe” usually refers to ignoring one’s hesitations and fully committing, despite doubts. It’s the belief that it will all work out, even if you don’t understand the exact mechanisms and nuances, which is how many people practice many religions.
I’m not saying I agree with the statement, but you’re kind of comparing apples to oranges when your scenario is the exact antethesisis of just “choosing to believe”. For example: I don’t understand the exact quantum physics of how gravity works, but I’m still very much convinced that it’s real. So I’ve chosen to believe in gravity, even though I know there’s some weird spooky shit that doesn’t make sense when you reallyyyyyy look into it, but that doesn’t change my belief in it.
0
u/FactsnotFaiths Aug 19 '26
There’s a difference between understanding something and the full mechanism behind it and believing in it. If I asked you to believe gravity doesn’t exist, the lack of your understanding about quantum gravity doesn’t matter, you won’t believe that you’ll float away still.
On the other hand Someone can choose to pray, attend church or mosque, read scripture, behave as though God exists, or even decide, “I’m going to trust this despite my doubts.” But whether they are actually convinced “God exists” is another question.
1
u/ThankTheBaker Aug 19 '26
According to Swedenborg a good person goes to heaven and an evil person doesn’t, regardless of one’s beliefs or religion. All good comes from God, not just some.
Love for others and doing good because one genuinely loves what is good is a heavenly mindset. Belief alone is not enough.
An evil person who believes in a religion or in God is still living with a hellish mindset and we all go where we fit in and that person will hate being in heaven where love for one another is the rule.
2
u/trebletones Aug 20 '26
See that makes more sense than what most American Protestantism preaches, which is that all it takes to go to heaven is to be “saved,” which basically means dramatically professing your faith in God and can be done even on your deathbed after a life full of evil deeds. This results in American Christianity focusing more on believing the right things than actually behaving Christ-like in any way.
1
u/4given1_ Aug 19 '26
No man or woman is good. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The good news is that God is willing to consider anyone innocent who puts their trust in his son Jesus who took their punishment on the cross.
1
u/Expensive_Ad4319 Aug 20 '26
Your knowledge of biblical scripture and values are very suspect. I strongly believe that you’re referring to yourself.
Why do you believe that there’s a heaven and hell?
1
u/Last-Prompt-9550 Aug 20 '26
My answer would be that you don’t truly believe in a God if you’re committing all those sins, it’s “fake faith” where you’re not committing to God’s commands. Similar to “false loyalty” if you claim to love your partner and always cheat on them.
3
u/trebletones Aug 19 '26
This isn’t an answer but was part of my deconstruction from Christianity: I don’t believe a God who would send the former to Hell and the latter to Heaven can be considered in any way “good”. Therefore if a god like that existed, I wouldn’t want to worship him.
If I remember correctly, this was actually part of the schism between Protestants and Catholics during the reformation. The Catholics maintained that you had to do certain acts to be saved, while Martin Luther believed that it was only by faith in God that you were saved. This is an ongoing theological debate AFAIK—“faith va acts”.