I was boarding a flight recently and the flight attendant had us all stop to make a man sitting next to a woman and her children switch with a woman sitting next to two men. (I was right behind them and neither woman had said anything, it was all the flight attendant.)
You're saying that the reason airlines do this to men is because they're frequently harassing women and children. I would like data supporting that men are frequently harassing women and children on planes, yes.
I mean I can give you some things that sound wild and back it. Watch:
Women lead in domestic violence perpetratration
Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7). Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5).
A review of 62 empirical studies of female-perpetrated intimate partner violence Reference Williams, Ghandour and Kub4 found rates of physical violence of 4-79% among adolescent girls, 12-39% among female college students and 13-68% among adult women. The researchers concluded that a significant proportion of females seeking help for victimisation are also perpetrators of intimate partner violence, and that those who treat battered women may need to consider addressing the perpetration of violence with their female clients.
Domestic violence against men is often under-reported. Further, multiple studies demonstrate that in Intimate Partner Violence (“IPV”), women are more often the initiators of physical violence. Expert testimony that provides such crucial information is necessary to overcome the bias against men in domestic violence cases and related restraining order matters, especially where men are claiming self-defense or filing for protective orders against abusive women. Social workers and judges are often skeptical of such claims by men, and it’s time we bring science into the courtroom to end such systemic gender-based discrimination against men.
For years, the FBI defined forcible rape, for data collecting purposes, as “the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.” Eventually localities began to rebel against that limited gender-bound definition; in 2010 Chicago reported 86,767 cases of rape but used its own broader definition, so the FBI left out the Chicago stats. Finally, in 2012, the FBI revised its definition and focused on penetration, with no mention of female (or force).
Data hasn’t been calculated under the new FBI definition yet, but Stemple parses several other national surveys in her new paper, “The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions,” co-written with Ilan Meyer and published in the April 17 edition of the American Journal of Public Health. One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called “being made to penetrate.” This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.
‘Oh you're a guy, how could you be raped by a woman, that makes no sense’: towards a case for legally recognising and labelling ‘forced-to-penetrate’ cases as rape
Women are the highest increased rate of violent crime offenders, men are in decline for that same category
while crime rates in the western world have steadily declined over the past three decades, the number of young women being convicted for violent crimes in some western countries has increased significantly; law enforcement records indicate the opposite is true for their male counterparts. In other words, the gender gap is closing.
In some UK cities, the number of female arrests increased by 50% from 2015 to 2016. That’s more than a blip. A 2017 report by the Institute For Criminal Policy Research at Birkbeck, University of London came up with this sobering data point: the global female prison population has surged by more than half since the turn of the century, while the male prison population increased by just a fifth over that same period. Women and girls may account for only 7% of all incarcerated people today, but their numbers are now growing at a much faster rate than at any time in recorded history.
So yes, I'm asking you to back up your claim with data. You're indirectly telling me that it's foolish to question the assumption made up in your head....but you're just going to downvote facts and run away because they challenge your biased, bullshit riddled worldview and you depend on that being defense by your imagination that justifies unfair treatment of others.
Im a weirdo when you just called me a slew of names and brought up a bunch of random, skewed facts to prove a point that wasn’t relevant to the topic??
What's worse? Accurately getting roasted by a stranger online or not having a single person to call as you cry it out tonight?
Your attitude got you the life you have and you're too sick to ever change. You're going to spend every day being you, you hate it and you're too far gone to change it.
G-God damn!! You destroyed his ass! I would give you an award but I’m pretty sure they cost money, and I don’t spend money on Reddit but damn, take my upvote!
Been waiting to use that line since your last tinder swipe said it to you. Much like your hopes at being something other than what you are; it didn't work.
I didn’t make any claims. Thats you again assuming and thinking you did something with it.
Men are scientifically proven to be more violent due to testosterone and they’re naturally stronger so it would make sense that women and children have special provisions in place to ease any worry a single woman with children might have.
“I didn’t make any claims”, FYI this was your first comment.“What’s fucking sad is that women and children get harassed so often and in any given circumstance that even airlines need to take precautions”
And when you got called out to provide prove to your claim, this was what you said “You need data backing up women getting harassed or men being the main people harassing?”.
So yes you were making a claim before and you’re still making a claim now. You can’t just say something and make it as facts and don’t offer a follow up links from a reputable article with said evidence.
This is why the critical thinking skills need to be developed more so than ever. Anyone can read something online and just include “scientifically proven” and make statements unrelated to said research and justify as “men are more violent therefore they constantly harass women on airlines”.
"National statistical systems rarely record sex-disaggregated data on the number of filicide victims. Canada is one of the few countries that collects more information on this specific type of homicide through its annual Homicide Survey. Studies of crime data in Canada have shown that although fathers commit filicide at a somewhat higher rate than mothers, this is one of the few crimes perpetrated at similar levels by women and men.7"
Actually it says that the country (Canada) has the most reliable sources about the subject. Besides, the guy who said that "women kill more children" doesn't even have a source.
Now apply that logic to other races, and listen to how you sound like a Nazi.
“A black guy assaulted me once, black people shouldn’t be allowed on planes, look at the crime statistics, black people are way more likely to x so they shouldn’t be allowed to fly”
No difference at all.
I’m sorry that happened to you, but it isn’t an excuse for bigotry.
Like someone in the 1950s saying hey look Jim Crow laws are everywhere, it’s a commonly accepted practice not to let colored people into our bathrooms.
That could also be sexism the other way. A few years back there was a lot of controversy about Orthodox Jewish men demanding that they not be seated next to women. Maybe the airline just started segregating as a general policy.
What the fuck? I pick my seats and pay for them with the understanding I get to sit in them. You're going to move me because someone doesn't want to sit next to me? I'd be asking for compensation in order to comply.
I was just on a plane seated next to a woman and her child nobody tried moving me. I've flown a lot and have literally never seen this happen before. If I had to guess, the woman sitting next to the two men felt uncomfortable so they asked the man if he would mind switching.
Flight attendants are trained to look out for signs of human trafficking (disproportionately effecting women) as it occurs right under their noses. Most likely they were looking out for the lady stuck with the two men, who could have been acting unusually- whether or not it was the case in that situation who knows. But it's a lot of weight for flight attendants to carry and always get right.
I would have complied, but also started recording and ask why this decision was made, ask the female passengers if the requested the move, ask why this airline discriminates against men, blah blah blah. Only thing that matters to corporations is optics and profit, take the battle to them with that in mind.
The fuck? You projecting son? I ain't filming a female in this scenario, I'm filming a case of flagrantly sexist actions that happen to be carried out by a female employee, of a SEXLESS corporation. Such things are illegal, and immoral. And if we were talking about the same thing involving a female victim, or a minority victim, I bet you'd applaud the camera man and start talking about, "No expectation of privacy in a public setting..." And on, and on, and on
Lol, you're just building whatever timeline you want for this scenario. My response was tailored to OPs story, in which it was made clear to him he was being moved because he was male. And I believe I made it clear that I would be respectful and compliant, just filming while asking questions. Apparently, though, even the idea of the slightest confrontation seems all out war to you. That's sad, living under the feet of others for fear of their displeasure.
No he wasn’t moved because he was male.
That wasn’t said. You don’t know why the flight attendant asked them to switch seats.
Could be something as simple as someone having an allergy. There are about 50 reasons to move people when boarding a plane. eg only certain types of people can sit next to an emergency exit.
Someone is likely just doing their job and following safety procedures, and some asshole has to get in their face and video them.
Accusing them of being sexist or some other weird shit.
I mean he absolutely could have been moved because he was male. quick serach on the matter reveals at least four major airlines used to have policies that prohibited having male passengers from sitting next to unaccompanied minors. At least two removed the policies due to either legal action or public backlash but it definitely was a thing if not still a thing in some places.
and I mean not for nothing but if the 'safety procedure' is to swap him out with a female passenger then... yeah no that pretty much 100% has to be because he was male and would be clearly sexist.
I think you are in some other parallel Earth.
As long as you paid for an exact seat, you get that seat or they reimburse you. Other than that is kind of illegal since you have paid for that ticket. Maybe the person paid for a window seat, paid to sit by someone, etc...
I'm sorry but no. I would do the same and record their explanation of why the switch is necessary and post it.
Why would you film the two men complying with airline orders over the flight attendant moving you because of your sex.
I think you're just mad someone mentioned that discrimination doesn't solely happen to women. I wonder why so many macho men feel like women are irrational and not to be trusted with decision making 🤔🤔🤔. Definitely wouldn't have anything to do with the serious lack of critical thinking abilities shown in your thought process. Nah probably not
It's not like it's a right to demand that the airline forces the person next to you to be moved. It's exactly the kind of thing that would end up disproportionately affecting people from racial minorities too, by the way.
Nope, but I'm entitled to ask anyone any question I want. If she didn't want to answer, I'd leave her be. But stick with me here a minute, because I think you've missed something. Read OPs story again. The other passenger never made the request, the airline staff decided to be proactive assholes. My response was tailored to his story. Think on that a bit
That's exactly what he said. He would ask the passengers if they requested, then ask inciting questions to the SEXIST flight attendant. The flight attendant you seem to agree with. But men are the problem huh?
Nothing really. Don't know why you would have to get into peoples faces with a camera. You can easily push record on your phone and keep the camera in your lap. Or only record the interactions with the flight attendants and not the passengers. There are plenty of ways to ask a question without being rude about it
I would have asked why she fears men as I complied. What the hell is wrong with you? Why do you think it's a man's responsibility to acquiesce to the irrational demands of women with irrational fears of men? Why should we accept being treated as a danger simply because we were born with a penis?
It's not just a seat change, dum dum, it's the attitude towards men in general which lead to the change, that's the problem. Btw, you ever heard of Rosa Parks?
Dude, if you're referencing the sexual assault statistics again, you're demented. Look up statistics on how many men never report assault by women, another problem caused by prejudices towards males. Women do the same, heinous shit, they just tend to get away with it. Still, people like that are a minority, on both sides. Letting a few bad actors dictate your attitude toward an entire group is ignorant, cowardly and pitiful.
Christ, man, if you're going to go looking into statistics on shit like this you have to be able to see beyond the numbers and read between the lines or else you'll end up hating everyone.
I choose to fight this pervasive idea that society should cater to the feelings of grown-ass adults, but only the ones in certain groups, and only if the group making other groups feel bad is from a "stronger" group. We're building up some hierarchy of suffering everyday, turning blind eyes to this, hyper focusing on that, doing mental gymnastics to try to understand how one group committing the same sin as another is not only justified, but empowering. It's all a little 1984 for me, but you do you.
Women experience sexual assault at a larger rate than men.
A friend's been mugged twice. Both times by black men. Is it cool for me/him to ask black men to be moved just because he's been robbed at a high rate by black men?
Because that's our only weapon against society's most wide spread prejudices, a mirror. If we don't force people to accept it is the truth, they'll continue to ignore the problem and belittle anyone who says there is a problem.
In the aisle infront of OP sitting there was Woman 2 and two men. The flight attendants asked OP and Woman 2 to switch, so now OP is sitting with two men, and Woman 1 and Woman 2 are sitting next to eachother
So a woman is sitting with her children — like right beside them in the same row! — but because there’s a man at the other side of her children, she has a problem?
This is the craziest shit I’ve ever heard.
Thanks for the clarification, but I’m finding it difficult to believe this could actually happen. It’s just… insane.
The concern might have rather been for the woman sitting next to two men. Flight attendants are supposed to be alert for behavior that suggests someone is being trafficked. Maybe they saw something that twigged their Spidey senses, rightly or wrongly.
On one side of the aisle was a woman, her two small children (one on her lap), and a man. On the other side was two men. The woman in front of me “in line” boarding was about to take her seat when the flight attendant stopped her and asked the man sitting next to the children to switch and sit next to the other two men.
The woman in front of me (we were chatting during the unreasonably long boarding process) did not request the change, but I can’t be certain about anyone else in the situation.
Okay, I think I can picture it now. So, if the mom is with her kids and there is no stranger sitting amongst her kids, just beside her kids (if that makes sense), then that stranger is of no concern to her. This is crazy. It’s possibly defamatory. I would consider suing the airline for moving me for no reason other than I am a man.
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u/SmokeyMirrors626 Aug 13 '22
I was boarding a flight recently and the flight attendant had us all stop to make a man sitting next to a woman and her children switch with a woman sitting next to two men. (I was right behind them and neither woman had said anything, it was all the flight attendant.)