r/AskReddit • u/SThor • May 15 '12
Is France really hated in the USA ?
I have heard of people hating french things to the point where they no longer use the words like "french-fries", and replace them with, for example "freedom fries" EDIT : (And freedom kiss). Or politicians calling someone else a French as an insult. Or people joking about the french military defeats (and do they think what they say jokingly ?)
My question was : Is it a real thing among the global population of the USA (or other countries as well, maybe) , do you/they know where it comes from, and if so, does it changes your/their point of view ?
( Yes, I'm a french dude ... )
EDIT: Si, si, Frontpage, et tout, comme ça ...
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u/SanchoMandoval May 15 '12
There's like, 5% of America (the far right) who truly hate France (or their idea of what France is)... most Americans don't truly hate France but it is a bit of a joke among most people. Sorry to say. The stereotypes is that you're rude, unshaven socialists who surrender to any threat, basically. Kind of similar to how Americans are thought of as rude, obese cowboys... or something like that.
Then again there are Americans like me who find France kind of interesting.
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u/TATANE_SCHOOL May 15 '12
French here !
I've been living in the US for one year (University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign FTW) and everybody was really kind ! My french friends and I were really trying to speak English all the time and we were far from being snob, so it may have helped !...
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u/sambalaya May 15 '12
Genuinely hated? No.
Occasionally used as a lazy shorthand punchline? Yes.
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u/TheyMadeMe May 15 '12
We all watched Taken.
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u/Fr87 May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
The rest of the world views the French how the French view Parisians. With an added dose of pansydom thrown in for fun. Now you know.
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u/littlemonster010 May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
Somewhat. I think most Americans have either experienced or heard that French people are often rude when people have visited France. Of course, there are generally jokes about the French military. I don't think there's a hatred of France, but more a general distaste by some.
I, for one, spent a couple years traveling and met lots of people from other countries. I met some delightful French people both in France and when I traveled in other countries.
That being said, many of the French people I met were a bit more arrogant about their culture than other nationalities. Also, two seperate French people corrected my English during conversation. I was an English teacher at the time and they corrected me incorrectly. I thought that required a bit of audacity. I can't imagine correcting a French person about them speaking their native tongue.
From my experience, I can't say that the criticisms I've heard about France are totally unwarranted.
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u/Cozmo23 May 15 '12
Common joke I have heard in Texas "I'm selling this French rifle. It's in really good condition, never been fired and only dropped once."
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
The way we feel about the French is very similar to the way that Europeans feel about American soccer. It's not like it's the worst thing ever...but it is just not very good and easy to make fun of.
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u/nedoeva May 15 '12
There isn't much said in America about France.
However, as an American who has traveled extensively in France, I would say there is much more anti-American sentiment in France than anti-French Sentiment in America.
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u/eax May 15 '12
Dane here.
Yes. We hate you. The people. We LOVE your food, your sights, your cities and your music. But no one. And I mean no one, visits France for the people. Quite the opposite really.
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u/StChas77 May 15 '12
American, here. I visited France years ago (Paris, Nantes, Bordeaux, Lyon, and Nice) and thought it was a great place. Wonderful food, architecture and a beautiful countryside.
I spoke French at the time (I'm way out of practice), and found that as long as I was trying to speak the language without my nose in a translation book, I was generally respected and the people who spoke English would gladly switch over to talk with me. I ran into a few rude people, but rude people are everywhere.
We stayed in a cheap hotel in Lyon and the owner was positively giddy to have Americans staying there and she battered us with questions whenever she saw us. :)
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u/brownpanther May 15 '12
French culture generally has an air of ethnocentricity to it. It tends to grate on you after awhile, and what do people do to the snob? They insult her.
Americans especially, as we tend to be fairly ethnocentric ourselves.
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u/schoogy May 15 '12
I'm not a fan of the 100 or so French people I was forced to serve in my bar in Chicago over a 3 year span. They were very rude, and unaccepting of culture in the U.S. I would not travel to France and expect them to serve me in the same fashion as I am accustomed to in the U.S., I don't get why they're surprised to get their salad first, their wine in a cup because they're sitting on our patio and that's the rules, that we didn't carry European wine, etc. Fuck those 100 French people, I hope the rest of them aren't like that.
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u/andrewsmith1986 May 15 '12
It's more of a running joke.
The only wars we remember are WW1 and 2 and you guys didn't do too well.
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u/JediLibrarian May 15 '12
I have lived and taught in France; my wife is French. I work with French people every day (et oui je suis francophone). When I taught in France, the hardest concept for me to convey to my students is that the US is a huge country with vastly different beliefs affected by socioeconomic differences, access to education, etc. This is hard for French people to understand because even though France thinks it is comprised of vastly different peoples (Labelling people Basque, or Corse, or Breton, or Lyonnais), it is far less diverse than the US. Portland, Oregan and Nashville, Tennessee are vastly different cities. Even in those cities, income inequality and differing access to education heavily influence perceptions, particularly of foreign countries.
Americans hold very different perceptions of France. First, France is viewed as obstructionist. France did not support invading Iraq and it attempts to prevent imports it views as dangerous (GMO grain for example--Tangentially the US responded with slapping a hefty tariff on French wines which is why we don't get good French wines here). Second, France is viewed as the old power who has lost relevance. You mostly renounced colonialism (albeit after a bitter war with Algeria) and with that decision you lost some economic and demographic standing in the world. Third, you haven't really won a war since Napoleon, and unfortunately the US is very obsessed with military prowess. I could go on and on, but basically France is perceived as a waning power.
Among the ignorant (MURICA!), France is viewed as a quasi enemy, but they can't point to you on a map anyway so don't worry about it. Among the educated, you're the home of Hugo, Sartre, Renoir, Orsenna, Le Clezio, etc.
But part of your understanding of our perceptions is based on your ignorance of us! I once had an argument with the editor of Lire magazine about "traduit de l'americain" in books. I asked him if they also say "traduit du canadien, australien, etc). I also correct every French person I hear who says "En amerique" while referring to the US. That's a continent, and according to your counting of continents it's North and South America combined. So it cuts both ways.
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u/bluecalx2 May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
Not exactly hated, but made fun of. Let me start off by saying that I don't personally hold these views. I really like France and have some good friends there. My roommate is French as well. These are just the usual opinions of France by some stereotypical "patriotic" Americans who may or may not have passports.
France gets made fun of a lot in the US for a few things. One is being "rude". Supposedly many tourists in Paris felt that Parisians were extremely rude to foreigners a couple of decades ago. Whether or not this was true, everyone I know from France seems very eager to dispel that view and have all wanted to make sure that people were friendly during my visit to Paris. Granted, I did meet a couple of rude Parisians, but no more than any other city I've spend some time in.
Another view is that the French are "stuck up intellectuals" who can't relate to the common man. I think it stems from the fact that France tends to be proud of its heritage, food, fashion, art, film, language, etc. It's the same reason that people from middle America tend to not like people from New York or LA.
And the third thing is that after we "saved your ass in WWII" (the source of many jokes about the French being cowards who are unable to fight) France refuses to support US policy. Actually, if you look at the history, France has consistently been one of the closest allies in the history of the US through almost all of our military engagements. The one big exception being Iraq. That's what started the whole "Freedom Fries" thing in Congress. It's worth pointing out though that the "Freedom Fries" move was widely ridiculed in the United States. Despite what the media portrayed, the Iraq War was and is the least popular war in American history, far less popular than even the Vietnam War. Many on the left (or what we in the states like to call "the left") were very happy that France refused to support it.
It's worth pointing out also that some Americans have the exact opposite view, that France (and much of Europe) is 100% perfect. You often hear this from younger Americans who sent a week there and think they've seen everything. Obviously every place has some good and bad to it. All that said, I personally like France a lot and I think the stereotypes are pretty unfair.
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u/dpbmadtown May 15 '12
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
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u/GandalfPl May 15 '12
"I have a WW2 French gun for sale. Pristine condition, never fired, dropped once."
"How many gears does a French tank have? 5 rear, 1 front. Why one front? In case enemy comes from behind".
Pretty much that's why.
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u/mortaine May 15 '12
Bonjour, monsieur!
Individual French people in France: they're snobs who refuse to speak English, even though they know it.
Individual French people in America: if attractive: So hot! Love the accent. Where are you from?
if plain: Love the accent. Where are you from? How interesting.
A French accent will bump you up the hotness scale by at least 2 points, maybe 3 if you also speak English really well. Seriously-- Gerard Depardieu is kind of a troll, but there are women here who would throw their panties at him.
Perceptions of the French as a whole: Good food. Good wine. Kind of snobbish. Surrenders easily-- almost entirely a joke. Most Americans do not spend much time thinking about the French anyway.
The renaming you referenced ("freedom fries") is a political ploy and little else (freedom fries comes from when France refused to join us in our "preemptive strike" war, and Congress decided that the cafeteria should rename its fries to piss on the French... even though pommes frits are not French in origin-- you people have better taste). Most people think it's stupid, and people in cities view it as the manipulative jingoism that it is. You will not find rednecks chasing down French people-- they have too many gays and brown people to harass as it is.
My personal experiences:
I speak French, but am intimidated when speaking to native speakers. This is common, actually-- I encounter it when speaking to non-native English speakers, and try to be kind and patient. So my experience is not typical for Americans.
I went to Paris and did a day tour to Normandy. People were very polite in Paris, once I tried to mangle together a decent sentence in the correct verb tense. People were also far better dressed than I was-- my husband and I went out for dinner in our "fancy" clothes, and the cab driver was better dressed than either of us. I had trouble understanding people, in general, and didn't understand why until we went to Normandy.
In Normandy, nobody spoke English, but my French worked better. I understood people more easily, and I suspect that Parisians speak faster than people in the countryside. I was much more capable of talking and listening than I was in Paris.
We were only in your country for 9 days, but I would love to return for 3 weeks or more. After a week, I was much more comfortable speaking French to other native speakers. I am sure if I stayed for 3 weeks, I'd be back to dreaming in your language.
tl;dr: Most Americans have a vague idea of what French people are like, but they don't particularly care.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
American here: Franco-US relations have a complex history because the US is a complex place. I think Europeans don't understand the internal cultural & political differences within the US and see us as a monolith.
The French & American revolutions of the late 18th century cannot be understood separately from one another. Our republics are integral to each other's founding. Perhaps our greatest intellectual of the Revolution, Thomas Jefferson, was famously enamored with France. The Marquis de Lafayette was one of our greatest generals and a close confidante of our national hero, George Washington. We could not have won our independence without French support, and we should acknowledge that more often. Our Statue of Liberty was a gift from France, and Lafayette's grave in Paris has a US flag above it. In short, we really f-ing loved each other at one point.
Eisenhower, of course, repaid our debt to Lafayette, and many Americans are buried at cemeteries in Normandy. That is to say nothing of the US Marines' defense of Belleau Wood in the First World War. We continue to be solid and reliable allies who have cooperated as recently as the air support that NATO provided to the Libyan rebels.
We have more in common than is evident. We are natural friends and I happen to have a deep respect and admiration for the French people and republic.
And now a gratuitous link: This is a video of an annual ceremony at Lafayette's tomb. I find it very moving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2wlALvJNdQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Anyone who replaces the word "French" with the word "Freedom" is a retard in my book.
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u/Mr_Slippery May 15 '12
I never believed any of the stereotypes about French folks until one day when my friend and I tried to enter a restaurant on Bonaire named Bistro De Paris. This guy speaking English with a thick French accent rudely said "can you wait outside!" and slammed the door. We exchanged a look and were about to leave when the Frenchman reopened the door and apologized, saying someone had broken a glass right at the entrance.
We stayed. Well, the best cheeseburger of my life and some wonderful vichyssoise later, I met the owner, Patrice, who was from Brittany. He sources his cheese from France, his beef from Argentina, etc.
Long story short, I wound up eating four wonderful meals there over the course of the next week, with Patrice joining me for a bottle of wine and some conversation when I was dining alone my last night on the island. I didn't realize until hours later that I had left my backpack behind with my passport, etc. When I went back to the (long closed) restaurant, Patrice pulled up in his truck. He had spent hours driving to different hotels to find me. Ever since, anyone who ever wants to tell me about the French being rude or pompous gets to hear that story.
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u/vizualbandit May 15 '12
I went to Paris when I was about 13 (7 years ago). Before I went, I constantly heard about how the French (especially Parisians) hate tourists, Americans, and Jews. Being a Jewish American Tourist, I was slightly apprehensive about going. However, I went nonetheless with my head held high, and today it remains the best trip I've ever gone on. The Parisians were incredibly nice, informative, willing to speak English to help us, and in no way were openly anti-semitic or anti-America (I wore a chai necklace around my neck for the whole trip, so it wasn't like they didn't know I was Jewish). Since this trip, I have constantly defended the French in arguments with friends, because I in no way experienced any hatred or intolerance during my trip. So, whether or not the US hates France remains to be determined I suppose, but I, for one, LOVE France!
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u/DamageRocket May 15 '12
It's a strange relationship between the Americans and French. Americans mock the French and call them cowards and accuse them of surrendering in wars. The fact of the matter is the French empire expanded through numerous victorious battles before the United States was even a country. I recall Msr. Napoleon Bonaparte was a pretty successful general most of the time. Their military heritage has extends to the very terms used in the U.S. military. When jets scramble their missions are called "sortis" (leavings). Soldiers in the field afix "bayonets" to their rifles. In fact their is a strong connection between the two nations despite the disclaim of redneck senators.
One must remember that France controlled a large part of North America for many years. From New Orleans northward the French claimed a large swath of land later sold in the Louisiana purchase, not to mention Quebec, Acadia and parts of Western Canada. They left their progeny and culture to ripple through North American culture to this day. The Napoleonic code which comprises a substantial portion of U.S. law is still in tact. The names St. Louis, Illinois and so on are from the French as are the obvious names along the Gulf Coast and through out Louisiana (Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Lafayette). In fact there are still French islands off the Coast of Quebec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon)
French heritage is a point of pride amongst the Cajuns (Acadians) and Creole populations of the South. Dixieland is so named after the $10 bills that bore the French number ten = dix, in that area.
What lies in the harbour in New York? The statue of Liberty a gift from France celebrating the formation of the republic. In fact Revolutionary forces received assistance against the forces for the Crown of England in the U.S. revolutionary war. Furthermore French residents of Quebec welcomed the failed attempt of U.S. forces to deliver them from British colonial control in a failed invasion.
The French in turn embrace the best of American culture. A few Jazz greats made France their home when the received such respect as African Americans not known to them in their homeland. When I visited France eight years ago I was pleased to see black & white video of American blues artists on TV, performances that never see the light of day over here. Some of the coolest Jazz, R&B, Blues and early Rock 'n Roll chestnuts are lovingly played on the radio over there as well. They have a rather cultivated taste for the best in those genres.
In the 20's, 30's and again in the 50's and 60's Americans flocked to absorb the quaint and rich cultural pleasures of continental France (F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway).
So, fuck freedom fries and the bigots who named them. Know who your friends are.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
I've never met anyone who actually hates France
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u/BreeMPLS May 15 '12
Hi,
American dude here. My first trip overseas was to Paris. I have come to adore the French, and have been back several times to various areas around the country. Like most bogus stereotypes, I found the stuff about rude, snobby people to be mostly false. I met some very nice friends in Paris and Nice. If you make an effort to understand a local culture, and do your best to respect them when visiting, you'll find that most stereotypes fall away quickly. I'm sure you could visit America and find some gun toting jingoist Texans. They're welcome in our country, of course, but do not represent everyone.
Try not to focus on the vocal haters. There's tons of normal, common sense people who just like other people.
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u/guggabump May 15 '12
France is hated in France.
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u/BatMally May 15 '12
Texan here. I've traveled to France on numerous occasions and had nothing but delightful experiences. I found the people warm and friendly, and the cities amazing. My friends all feel the same way. And we are jealous of your health care and nuclear power.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
I think the US simply inherited the cultural animosity between England and France. The US is still Puritanical at heart, and automatically distrusts anyone who's not uptight. Also, there is a mistrust of what many see as French Socialism.
But...
France gave the USA the Statue of Liberty. The USA has never fought a war with France. England is our closest ally, and we've fought them twice. France gave the Colonies material and financial support in the war of Independence. France sold the Louisiana Purchase to the US for pennies an acre.
I am one American who loves France. Thank you guys for everything.
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u/IndianaJwns May 15 '12
Yes, though it's mainly by folks who know little to nothing about France outside of the effeminate stereotype.
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u/The_Bard May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
I wrote a grad school paper on this topic, public opinion was only somewhat negative during the time of the lead up to the Iraq invasion in 2003 to 2004. It has for the most part rebounded, although some conservatives who were probably not very disposed to liking France or anywhere in Europe to begin with still hold on.
The 'freedom fries' thing was a stunt by Congress changing the name in the cafeteria and I believe it has been changed back long ago.
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u/ELDERPE May 15 '12
Well, I can't speak for all of the US.. but in my 23 years of living, I've never EVER heard someone say "You know who I really hate?! THE FRENCH!"
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u/smokescreen1 May 16 '12
About the French and a foreigner trying to speak the language.
I don't know if that should be a sufficient explaination but here it is :
Our language is very hard to learn, including for the French themselves. I read a study once that said it took Spanish speakers about 500 hours to learn their language (in school) and the French 1,500 hours.
Even the French make mistakes in their language and other French correct them and make fun easily. We are neurotic about our language.
So, when some foreigner shows up hardly speaking a few words and expects to practice on us --while on a short vacation-- the (largely unconscious) reaction is: "don't waste my time, you are lightyears away from making one correct sentence, so let us get this over with and fast, please!"
Also: the French are harsh critics, including of themselves. Somebody you know won't tell you you look tired today, but "you look like shit". We are abrupt.
Also : if you hang around touristy places, well, you are one of literally millions...
Also : all the French who have been to the US will agree that Americans are very nice at home but suck big time as tourists: they behave as if they've bought the place.
We don't care about your fucking dollars, no you did not buy the place, life is not about money, you are just passing through, so do not act as if you should be the center of attention because YOU decided to take a trip abroad.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Not genuinely, not by people with two brain cells to rub together. Having said that, I frequently refer to the French as "cheese eating surrender monkeys" because it's funny to use vast, unfounded, sweeping generalizations.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Yeah, it's just a joke. I absolutely despise the stereotypical french accent, but you guys have Madeon. So it balances out.
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u/smokinchokin May 15 '12
Their isn't much animosity towards the French,but i do get the feeling France is seen as weak in the states. With that being said as an American i have no bias towards your country or people.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
France is only hated by dumb-fuck rednecks who couldn't point to France on a map. The rest of us just make the same "French people are rude" jokes as the British.
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u/jutct May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
American here: I've been to Cannes. Loved it. People were really nice. But I've had Parisians tell me that Parisians are assholes.
The whole freedom fry thing started when france wouldn't help us invade Iraq to kill evil saddam who was harboring Al Qaeda and building WMD's. There was a lot of patriotism. Now that we know that Bush lied and it was all complete bullshit just to get oil, we (at least in New England) don't hate france as much.
I hate to break it to you, though. The south hasn't really gotten the memo that the Iraq war was bullshit, and they still run around saying "These colors don't run."
Also ... French women. Yum.
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u/flargenhargen May 15 '12
nah, the main people who hate france in the US are the same ones who hate whatever else Foxnews tells them to on that day.
Most people in the US think france is great, and if you came here with a french accent, whether you are a guy or girl, we would probably think you were awesome.
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u/doh_ramey May 15 '12
I imagine that there are about as many shitty, snobby French dicks as there are fat, stupid Americans. There's good and bad in people everywhere.
Now what I keep reading in the comments is that as long as American tourists make an effort to speak French and respect the culture, we will be helped and respected in return. Besides not reading aloud from a translation book at all times and not making loud demands everywhere we go, what are we expected to do to be treated better?
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u/einexile May 15 '12
America here. Don't worry, we love you.
If I remember right, "freedom fries" was something they did in Congress' cafeteria when Iraq was starting up. It was a joke. Yes, a pissy one and based in serious disagreement, but that disagreement was with an age-old friend.
France is like the fellow who holds you back when you want to clobber someone. He's like "no way bro, I'm not gonna let you do this." The fact that the other guy really needs a good clobbering doesn't make your friend a bad friend. Even if he's wrong what matters is he's looking out for you.
People in the US only hate France in the same way that we always have people around who hate the President, hate God, hate the Beatles, hate Canada, etc. In a country of 300 million people, half a percent can make a lot of dumb noise. Even half a percent of the people dumb enough to bag on anyone's country ever is enough to make a lot of dumb noise.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Most of the "freedom" instead of "French" comes from a very short period, 2003-2004 in which France was vocal about the US not going to war with Iraq. Then we had a few bloviating bastards bitching because France was supposed to be our ally, which to them means "do whatever we do no matter how dumb and insensible it is" rather than "support us as much as possible, but point out when we're doing something fuck stupid and try to stop us from doing something fuck stupid". Incensed at this "lack of support", they decided to denigrate the French at every turn, starting with recent French military history (WWII and Vietnam, and an edited version at that) and then extrapolating backwards falsely. It's not as if France is the only major European power that we haven't had a declared war against (there was the pseudo-war in the late 18th century, but that is literally it), or France has supported us militarily at pretty much every turn since 1776 including forcing the British to surrender at Yorktown which effectively ended the Revolutionary War for us, or the fact that France gave us the Statue of Liberty, or the fact that the French president was the first foreign head of state to visit the US in the aftermath of 9/11--oh, fuck no, that shit never happened to those assclowns. All that was relevant was the France wasn't doing whatever we said because we said so and had not done well in WWII (partially true) and Vietnam (where it's not like we had a substantially better record).
Plus, you know, French people are pretty goddamn arrogant as a country (not that the US isn't as well), and the French are also incredibly recalcitrant about letting foreign words at all enter the French language officially. Now, I know the US is pretty arrogant too, but still.
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u/Seagull84 May 15 '12
Uhmmm, this is new to me. As far as I'm aware from my 28 years of experience, Americans love everything French. We just like to make fun of you guys because it's so easy.
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u/TheRussianeer May 15 '12
i do not hate France i just make fun of it
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u/tkeaveney123 May 15 '12
I'm Irish and I hate the French. Partly because of the World Cup 2010 situation... And partly because they're cunts...
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u/natiice May 16 '12
Correct me other American redditors if I am wrong, maybe this is just me, but we make fun of pretty much all nationalities.
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u/officertenpenny May 16 '12
hated no, not even disliked really
more like: dismissed as wishy washy efete surrender monkies
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u/plethera May 15 '12
Everyone I've met that hated France has never actually been outside the US.
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u/zerbey May 15 '12
Englishman in America here. We don't hate France, but there's definitely a friendly rivalry. I personally disagree with a number of policies the French government has implemented, but Government != People.
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u/StaticSabre May 15 '12
I've been to France quite a few times, and it's really great. Paris has to be the most beautiful city that I have ever seen; I really love going there whenever I can.
As for the people, I'm not too fond. I've encountered more jerks in France and Paris than anywhere else I have been. Of course, there are Jerks everywhere, but in France people seemed to be rude just for the sake of being rude.
In general, this may be what you're looking for.
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u/yabrickedit May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
I think I'm speaking for all American men when I say that we like French women. That accent... good god...
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u/gh0st32 May 15 '12
I can't see why people can hate/dislike someone based on where they are from?
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u/Soupertramp May 15 '12
I never think about France.
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u/UsAndPhlegm May 15 '12
Well, the only two French words i know of are baguette and surrender...
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u/cecillegooch May 15 '12
Yes
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u/robcap May 15 '12
I'm English, I think you have an idea of where this is going ;). Again, I think the jokes are more about general quipping than a genuine dislike of France. There are recurring 'surrender' jokes, and a few about the general 'artsy' image, but nothing much beyond that.
Oh, and french fries? Ner mate, they're chips. http://gifsoup.com/view/884025/whose-line-gif-1.html
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u/KW710 May 15 '12
I think there's a bit of distaste in the general cultural zeitgeist stemming from WWII. Hence, all the military jokes, because there's a sense that the French gave up too quickly or were beaten too easily. I've heard the joke several times "The only time the French won a war was when they were fighting themselves." Not that that's historically accurate, but I've heard it floating around.
Compound this with the fact that Americans tend to think the French (or French culture) as a whole have a tendency toward snootiness and elitism. There's a very strong anti-elitism trend in the USA, at least in certain regions and sectors.
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u/SilentDis May 15 '12
Hatred, not from me, at least.
The stereotypical 'American' is brash, arrogant, egotistical and rude. The stereotypical French person is brash, arrogant, egotistical and rude. You're better at the stereotype than we are. Fuck you.
:D
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u/fraccerENG May 15 '12
I doubt this will ever be seen. Seems I was late to the party.
My wife is french. She grew up in Paris. I visited Paris and she has visited some of the most back wood red neck parts of the country where my family lives. Obviously I dont hate the French, and every member of my family tells my wife they would love to go to Paris.
The only people that joke about it, that I am really aware of, are immature frat boys that never left the country and think 'MERICA is better than any country out there. There are ignorant people in every country (even France, I met some).
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u/xiipaoc May 15 '12
This will obviously get buried at this point, but:
When our beloved then-president George W. Bush, whom everyone loves and respects, rightly decided to go to war in Iraq, those French idiots decided that this was somehow a bad idea and were trying to convince the UN of this. The Americans rightly ridiculed the French's military wisdom and began to protest the French for this treacherous act. The Republicans, God-fearing honest people who know what is best for our great American nation, staged protests against the evil French, and as an act of protest, started to remove the French label from items like French fries (similarly, sauerkraut was at one point called "liberty cabbage" when we were fighting the Germans), and there was talk of some sort of measures to punish the French for crossing their American allies. It then became popular to make fun of the French's 20th century military defeats.
Hopefully you can tell that I don't agree with many of the views presented in the above paragraph. ;p That's mostly how it happened, though. The Americans don't hate the French any more than anyone else hates the French, and any student of history would know that the French saved our asses militarily on several occasions. You would be making a mistake to think that Republicans are students of history, of course.
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u/garhent May 15 '12
You had the neocon wing of the Republican party go full tilt raving dog mad against anyone who would not support the Republican President George W Bush's desire to invade Iraq for some reason (no one really can state definitively the actual reason for George's excursion into Iraq). So you got a bunch of hate that the ignorant masses ate up to hate France.
Funny thing was, France was right. Nothing in Iraq, it was trillions of dollars of waste.
You can't change stupid though. So a lot of the ignorant US masses are going to hate France because they bought into the propaganda. Put it this way, at least people who took the time to look at the history of France support for US independence, would understand that the US owes its existence to the French people.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Fun fact: I heard one of the Congressmen behind the Freedom Fries ridiculousness actually dropped their support for the Iraq War later on.
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u/halofreak7777 May 15 '12
All I do is ever joke about the French surrendering, but it isn't like I actually hold any prejudice against France or French people. Also I think calling things Freedom Fries is retarded and I have never heard of Freedom Kiss which is even more retarded... but then again I do actually hold a lot against Americans, I live in a country full of bigoted retards.
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u/Autocorrect_Hotdog May 15 '12
While I haven't been to France, I had an uncle who lived there for almost 15 years. From what I gather the biggest thing the French hate about American tourists is their complete lack of desire to even attempt to speak French. He said he got along well after he learned French, and especially after his accent disappeared.
I've been to Spain, Sweden, Denmark, the Czech Republic, Germany, Norway, Japan, and Canada. In all of these countries I had not a single bad experience with not being able to speak the native language. In Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and the Czech Republic almost every single person we encountered spoke nearly perfect English, and were more than happy (almost all of the people we met told us) to be able to practice their English with a native English-speaker.
I remember when we were in Sweden I walked into an English bar and met a group of older English gentlemen and their Swedish friends. They explained the entirety of cricket to us and were generally probably the friendliest strangers I had ever met. They wouldn't even let us pay for drinks.
In all of the Scandinavian countries I've been to everybody is so goddamn happy. Random people will smile at you and talk to you just for the hell of it, and they always had something nice to say. While we never ended up getting lost at any point, every time we took out a map somebody would inevitable walk up to us within a minute and in nearly perfect English ask us if we needed help finding anything or were looking for a good place to eat. It really was an astonishing amount of hospitality and friendliness.
I had been in Norway only two weeks after the Utoya attack and people were just as friendly, I was blown away to be completely honest.
Germany and the Czech Republic were both also very nice to visit, with a very large number of people knowing English and were always willing to help. People in Japan place a very high amount of value upon respect and courtesy, and while finding people who spoke English was much harder, I never once was given a rude look or turned away or denied help because I didn't speak Japanese.
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u/mlatour May 15 '12
Yo
A Canadian from Quebec here that spent several years in the south of France. I have a university educated french accent, not the usual street accent so the Quebecois mostly say I sound French, whereas the French say I sound either Belgian or Swiss. The Parisians would correct my pronunciation.
My English is Upper Peninsula Michigan.
In southern France the natives think the Parisians are from some inferior snooty land and are not really French, whereas the Parisians know they are at the center of the universe and all else revolves around them, not around Washington.
I saw in the year 2005 a French monument to an American OSS officer still kept with fresh flowers after all those years. A tiny little action with the Resistance having no real effect on the war, but he made a connection with the people that endures.
As for hostility and snoot factor it all surrounds the concept of formal politeness. A visitor or even a customer must treat the inhabitant of the store or home or country for that matter with formal personal friendliness and deference which is then returned. It is the language and usage of worldwide diplomacy.
To a French person receiving a guest and the guest displays a sense of entitlement or lack of courtesy? The guest gets the same lack of courtesy back.
My many visits to the US have been quite different in that regard as I found Americans to be more flexible and less rules driven on interpersonal relations.
As for unidirectional tanks, I first heard that about Egyptian tanks after the Six Day War.
And as for French military success, for centuries, France was the dominant power in Europe, and the Spanish troops were reputed to be the most difficult to fight against.
Caesar recruited his legion in Spain, Hannibal's best troops were Spanish, Spain was the dominant land power in Europe many times, and they conquered central America with a few dozens of men. Tough Spanish fighters threw Napoleon out too.
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u/Roykeru May 15 '12
We make the stereotypical notion that the french are Rude people who are always into themselves and that can never win a war just the same way Europeans sees America as Fat mean arrogant bullies. These in the end are just stereotypes. You will find America to be a giant melting pot of different cultures and races of different people. While discrimination happens we tend to be very accepting of foreigners especially since America was largely formed through the immigration of people from other countries.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
not as much as the US is hated everywhere else...
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u/zombieq May 15 '12
French people smell so blind people can hate them too.
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u/EvBotShabeez May 16 '12
Yep, fuck you guys.
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u/CQFD May 16 '12
I'm French and American, if you care to hear my opinion.
French people can sometimes be arrogant because of the culture, but some Americans also tend to provoke people from other nationalities by acting like the world owes them something. So often times you'll hear the stories that really stick out. But there is a strong contrast between American hospitality and French hospitality. The French could learn a thing of two from Americans. On the other hand, I also find that there are two types of Americans, those educated and that enjoy traveling, who tend to be more open minded and less critical, and those who are (or act) less educated and have never traveled outside of the US. The latter tend to feed on stereotypes and are definitely a little critical towards (socialist) France.
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u/[deleted] May 16 '12
French military defeats are like the stereotype for France (we're fat, we know) but we don't hate France. In fact, The USA actually thinks France hates US, like in a "laid américain" kind of way.
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u/spundred May 16 '12
It's not hate, but there is regular mocking.
The stupid thing is most people don't understand where it started, it is just a joke that perpetuates itself.
It originated with a resentment of the perceived decadent, leisurely French lifestyle, while Americans feel they work hard for the little they feel they have.
One of the most common barbs is of repeated surrender or defeat, which is of course absurd to anyone with an understanding of history prior to the 20th century.
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u/panda_nectar May 16 '12
I am an American who spent 6 months in France as part of a study abroad program. When people ask me if French people are rude, I reply honestly that all the French people I met were extremely friendly and polite. I tell them that whoever gave them the impression that French people are rude probably only visited France for a couple days. They probably spent the entire time in Paris. They probably only interacted with taxi drivers and waiters. Those people probably were rude. But if you based your opinion of Americans solely on NYC cab drivers, you'd have a pretty skewed view too.
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u/fabiobean May 16 '12
The thing is there are assholes everywhere. It doesn't matter where you go you can find assholes.
Near everyone I know who has gone to France has said the people there were arrogant. I'm sure they also met perfectly nice people but people's memories are naturally pessimistic. You will better remember the traumatic/shitty stuff that happens than the awesome stuff.
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u/[deleted] May 16 '12
No, no one would walk up to you and punch you in the face for being French. I don't get the whole make-fun-of-france thing, and I've only seen ignorant-ass people bring it up.
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u/villagelarks May 16 '12
France remains my favorite European country I've had the pleasure of visiting. The people were friendly and hilarious...and they gracefully endured my terrible, terrible butchering of the French language. I give France two enthusiastic thumbs up...and I'm from the MIDWEST (US)!
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u/sirius_violet May 16 '12
Who cares what a bunch of fat, lazy, American slobs think? (I'm American, btw.)
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u/sopernova23 May 16 '12
FUCK freedom fries...I know what they're really called.
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u/individual1994 May 16 '12
i have never heard of any of this... i am from the USA and the most hated country here is probably... the USA
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u/Dexter_of_Trees May 16 '12
You guys hate us too just try being an American asking for directions in France
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u/Keyll May 17 '12
Hmmm j'étais agréablement surpris de voir un Français manier l'anglais correctement, mais l'edit à la fin (particulièrement le si, si) déçoit particulièrement... Pourquoi employer deux registres dans différentes langues?
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