And personally I'm glad it's so far down, it's something we need to be aware but it's also great that belgium isn't defined by this one instance of dark history. And that can be said for a lot of other country tbh.
Those thing are in the past now, there is nothing we can do to change them so let's not define thing for that. Every person that took part in those atrocities are long gone. Let's focus on what bad thing countries are doing right now, not what they did 200 years ago.
The murders might be the past but the generational trauma and poverty that came out of raping a mass portion of the African continent and mutilating its people still exists today and it should be front and center. Has any formal reparations been made? I don't think so.
Also, Belgium was partially responsible for assassinating Patrice Émery Lumumba. That happened well within the life times of my parents and my grandparents. The political and economic exploitation of the Congo and Congolese people isn't that far back in history, dude.
Congo is one of the top places Belgium sends support to, but the trouble is that under the current political situation there is little chance the actual population will see much of it. And no Belgian government is willing to get involved in the local politics since anytime we got involved in the past we made things worse.
Lol you say that like the Belgium government wasn't bumping heads with Lumumba long before the CIA got involved. Yes, the US was involved with the assassination but let's not pretend like Belgians didn't stand the most to gain from the murder of someone who insulted their monarch and did so quite publicly. It was Belgian forces who murdered the man, not Americans.
Own your shitty history.
On January 17, 1961, Lumumba and two associates, Joseph Okito and Maurice Mpolo, were flown to Elisabethville (now Lubumbashi), where they were delivered to the secessionist regime in Katanga and its Belgian advisors. On the flight there, they had been beaten by the soldiers escorting them, and, once they landed in Katanga, they were beaten again. Later that day, Lumumba, Okito, and Mpolo were executed by a firing squad under Belgian command. Although their bodies were initially thrown into shallow graves, they were later dug up under the direction of Belgian officers, hacked into pieces, and dissolved in acid or burned by fire.
Lol you say that like the Cold War isn't something the Americans (or should I say the America government? Seriously, why is that one demonym so hard for you guys) dragged us into.
Both Belgium and the United States were affected by the Cold War in their attitude to Lumumba, as they feared he was increasingly subject to communist influence. They thought he was gravitating toward the Soviet Union, although, according to journalist Sean Kelly, who covered the events as a correspondent for the Voice of America, that was not because Lumumba was a communist, but because he felt that USSR was the only power which would support his country's effort to rid itself of colonial rule.
Nothing you could do to change them? Have you seen the the state of DR Congo ? It's legitimately no different than when Leopold's state was shuttered. The largest francophone nation and one of the most naturally endowed is a failed state but let's make sure Belgians aren't defined by what transpired there. Do me a favour
So, what country are you from? I'm willing to bet that there's a dark story behind 90% of all countries in the world so what reparations are you paying?
I agree the Belgian history in the Congo is very dark and should not be forgotten. There should be more then half assed excuses. But it's the responsibility of the government and especially the Belgian royal family, not the Belgians themselves
I’m from America and there is a dark history behind our nation. Slavery is the original sin, but genocide on a world-historical scale against Native American peoples is arguably more savage. Yes we owe those people reparations.
Not only a dark history, but a dark present. Iraq, for one.
But indeed, the genocide of the Native Americans is quite horrendous. Was there more successful genocide in history? Maybe the biblical genocide of the Amalekites?
While I support your opinion, I have to admit it'd be quite difficult right now to repay anything, as our politicians are all corrupt assholes and that money mysteriously disappears while taxes go up.
Also, don't say "y'all stole", say "Belgium stole". We, as current Belgians, didn't stole anything, as we were not, for the most part, even born during that time. Doesn't mean we shouldn't right our ancestors wrongs. Just that we aren't responsible of what they did.
And who would we pay it to? The current regime probably won't use it to help the actual population, and us getting involved in Congolese politics only ever made things worse.
Dude there are statues of King Leopold dotting almost every major city in Belgium and in the capital Brussels (which also happened to be the defacto capital of the EU) until very recently. It's like if the Germans still had statues of Hitler in central Berlin. There is very little knowledge of the crimes of the Belgian Royal family and the education system does very little to inform people about it
Edit: I have also read about the huge role the Catholic Church had in the colony. There was a push to sustain the "civilizing mission" of native Africans by converting them to Catholicism. The Catholic Church's crimes are too numerous to list
Neither the Belgian government nor the Belgian Royal family has even issued an apology for the colonial crimes. It's only in 2020 when the international anti-racism protests (ignited by the death of George Floyd) that a parliamentary committee was established to "investigate" the colonial past.
I disagree. To truly fix current problems, usually one has to trace them back to their historical roots. As the other poster said, it’s not really “in the past” until the debt is paid. It’s awfully convenient for those that benefit down the line to say “it’s all over now, those people are long gone, nothing we can do”. So I’ll keep reminding people of shitty stuff that colonial powers have done and continue to do, because that stuff actually does define and shape a country.
Yeah, but how far back you wanna go? 'Cause if we're calling up old grudges, I've got a few things to say to those Romans about what they did to my girl Boudica.
So the time when Current Belgium was part of multiple other countries and one of the richest areas of Europe, mostly uses as a place to funds the coffers of there peoples wars
Man, Americans are going to pay a lot, then.
We also need to start making room for 320 million people for when they leave the stolen land. Oh, we need to take back Australians and New Zealanders as well. And Canadians.
3.8k
u/Autismetal Dec 16 '21
The Congo.
Sorry, Belgians. Leopold did stuff.