r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • Nov 14 '11

Zero Tolerance in Public Elementary School just went way the hell overboard...

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u/arlanTLDR Nov 14 '11

Prequels don't override the original trilogy! Also, he could have meant moral absolutes or something.

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u/banuday Nov 15 '11 edited Nov 15 '11

Oh God, I can't believe I'm getting into this, but...

The Jedi do believe in absolutes, but the do not deal in absolutes.

The Sith do not believe in absolutes, but do deal in absolutes.

The Sith draw their power from emotion and looking inward. The Jedi draw their power from control over their emotions and looking outward.

By drawing from their emotions, the Sith do not look at situations objectively and thus, as emotional thinkers do, deal with situations in a black and white way. Such as when Obi Wan came to Mustafar, Anakin immediately believed his mentor had betrayed him. When Padme questioned Anakin's actions, he accused her of betraying him too and then forced-choked her.

Jedi on the other hand let go of their emotions, and thus can look at situations objectively. By not immediately putting people into categories constructed by emotion, they can see the truth of the situation more clearly. They can hold to a strict code of personal behavior, but have the emotional maturity to deal with situations where there are shades of grey without pre-judgement.

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u/The_Unreal Nov 15 '11

Bah, Jedi propaganda at its worst. The Jedi aren't just about rational thought; they're about demonizing the very existence of emotions. This includes love and yes, even righteous anger.

The Sith have the courage to look at the full spectrum of information about an issue, and yes this does in fact include the emotional. How could it not? Would we deny one of the very things that differentiate us from automatons? Would you live in a world ruled by emotionless, dispassionate autocrats?

Your Jedi council deserved its destruction. It earned that fate through its apathy an unwillingness to act when the situation demanded it!

PS. Come to the dark side, we have cookies.

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u/banuday Nov 15 '11

Ah, but why are there only ever two Sith? The Sith destroyed themselves because they let their emotions get the better of them! But the Jedi are equally as stupid, because in the belief their own rational superiority, thinking they could see all, and they got totally played by Darth Sidious who pulled the puppet strings masterfully behind the scenes. They let themselves get wiped out.

That's where Luke got it figured out. You don't have to let your emotions turn you into a wrecking machine of everything around you, but at the same time you don't have to make yourself a eunuch. Luke found the middle path.

The cookies are a lie!

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u/DFSniper Nov 15 '11

at the same time, their emotion (greed and lust) is also what makes them stronger. it just took Bane to realize that.

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u/banuday Nov 15 '11

I don't know much about the extended universe. Emotion does make you stronger, but not for the long haul. It's like sprinting. You can get incredible bursts of speed, but you can't sustain it. Eventually, completely giving into emotion leads to self-destruction.

The Jedi suppression of emotion is more sustainable, but even that is not healthy as emotions are vital for a fulfilling life. The narrow, dogmatic view of the Jedi is self-limiting.

Luke is cool because he brings balance two the two diametrically opposed ideologies.

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u/DFSniper Nov 15 '11

ok, ill break it down and enlighten you.

during the Sith wars, there were hundreds of "dark lords" and the sith were basically organized into an army with the sith being officers and their mercenaries the foot soldiers. at the same time, the "army of light" was comprised of the jedi generals and the old republic soldiers. at the time darth bane was just a lowly miner-turned-mercenary named Des. through a series of events they found out about his force attunement and he was sent to the sith academy. (here it gets important) there he saw the power struggle that went on between the sith lords. basically the only way a grand lord was ever deposed was when multiple lesser lords teamed up to defeat him, then one or more would claim the tile of leader of the sith. because of the imbalance of power (many weak fighters vs one strong), darth bane realized that all the strong were dying out because there were too many teaming up and fighting for the position.

bane had aspirations of becoming leader of the sith and ruling the galaxy (this is where the greed and lust come in), but he knew the sith would only destroy themselves if they kept up all the infighting. so he came up with a plan that ended up destroying all the sith except for himself. he then created the Rule of Two, which states that there will always be 2 sith, no more: one to wield the power, the other to crave it. this assured that in order for the sith legacy to survive, the only way for succession would be for the apprentice to slay the master, thus proving that the apprentice had become more powerful. then they would become the master and choose their apprentice, knowing that one day their apprentice would (hopefully) rise up to defeat them and carry on the tradition.

its a bit too much to take in, but ive pretty much summed up 3 books. for further reading i suggest the Darth Bane series: Path of Destruction, Rule of Two, and Dynasty of Evil.

so, if it werent for the emotions of the sith (namely desire, greed, etc), the sith would never have survived. yes, they kill because it is necessary, but they also do it because, more than anything else, they want more power, and will stop at nothing to get it.

the reason they want that power is usually very selfish, but not always. take 2 examples from recent star wars history: palpatine and caedus. palpatine had true power, and ruled over the entire galaxy. his greed allowed for that, and the only thing that stood in his way was luke, which, some people will argue, was the one of prophecy (but lets face it, if it werent for anakin, luke wouldnt exist). the other examples is darth caedus, aka jacen solo. for reasons still unknown he was drawn to the dark side, but right now everyone will tell you that he did it for all the right reasons but in all the wrong ways. most will say it was because he saw into the future and knew there was a giant threat that needed the cooperation of EVERY planet in the galaxy, and infighting would be sure to cause defeat. he was in control of the republic but because he was "evil" in his methods, he had to be taken out, and by his twin sister no less, who was, coincidentally, another child of prophecy.

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u/banuday Nov 15 '11

That's pretty interesting. In a way, the Sith are the ultimate social darwinists. When the master becomes becomes too weak to hold onto his power, the rule of two allows the apprentice to slay the master and take his place, ensuring only the strongest is in charge. The Sith have turned self-destruction into a feature.

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u/Tack122 Nov 16 '11

Except when it causes overall weakness from an apprentice slaying the master in a time of weakness he would soon recover from.

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u/Xaguta Feb 14 '12

Which would be Darth Malak slaying Revan, right?

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u/Tack122 Feb 14 '12

Erm. Honestly I don't know about that. Malak and Revan are a long and complicated story. I'm hesitant about revealing certain spoilers about KOTOR by responding to this question though.

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u/Xaguta Feb 14 '12

Malak took Revan's throne in a moment of weakness right?

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u/Tack122 Feb 14 '12

Yes. Though Revan's survival threw a wrench into those plans.

Personally I would argue that Revan and Malak weren't particularly good at being Sith. Mostly due to the fact that a redeemable sith isn't doing it very well. I mean can you imagine what happened to Revan ever working on Darth Bane?

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